Knowing when 聞く is "to listen" or "to ask"

Lotorie · 13 Oct 2012

Hello,

I always have this question. How do you know that 聞く is "listen" or"ask"?

For example :

日本人に比べると「質問はズバリ直球」な人が学生に多いため「遠まわしに聞いてみよう」という授業があります。

It is a teacher taling about her pupils.
She's telling (if I'm alright) that comparing to Japanese people, because of people asking questions as straight balls are students, she has courses that she names :

either : Let's go listen (to courses?) in an indirect way.
or : Let's go ask questions (talking about pupils) in an indirect way

Well, I may be wrong about the translation though, but, is there a precise way of distinguish the two meanings of this word?

(and if correction is needed, I will gladly accept it!)

Andromedashun · 13 Oct 2012

I think something wrong with the particle (the 学生に多い one).

The sentence means (if I'm not mistaken): ''Because there are many students (compare to Japanese) that have 「質問はズバリ直球」problem, somebody open a lesson called 「遠まわしに聞いてみよう」

聞いてみよう here might refers to let's try to ask, but I'm not sure.

質問はズバリ直球 > ask straight
遠まわしに聞いてみよう > let's try to ask indirect

Maybe that makes some senses?

Lotorie · 13 Oct 2012

I just looked and the particle is correct...

I think you're right for the translation. May be, as the students ask too many questions that are very fast (the story of the ball) and very accurate, there is a try to have another type of lesson : "let's try to ask more relax questions "^^ or "less precise questions".

You think, Kiku is "ask" here, but why ? It could be "listen", no ?

There is no grammatical law?

(sorry my English is awful today...)

Andromedashun · 13 Oct 2012

Lotorie said:
You think, Kiku is "ask" here, but why ? It could be "listen", no ?

It is the context that made me said that way:

質問はズバリ直球 > ask straight
遠まわしに聞いてみよう > let's try to ask indirect

Maybe that makes some senses?

ズバリ直球 means ''straight''. I don't think it has anything to do with ''ball''.

Mike Cash · 13 Oct 2012

聞く
聴く
訊く

Andromedashun said:
ズバリ直球 means ''straight''. I don't think it has anything to do with ''ball''.

Then you are overlooking the meaning of 球. What makes you think ズバリ直球 means "straight"? The only part of that which indicates "straight" is the 直. (Lately I'm noticing that you like to answer questions you really don't understand. That isn't very helpful).

Andromedashun · 13 Oct 2012

Mike Cash said:
Then you are overlooking the meaning of 球.

Oh you are right. I was thinking of an alternative meaning for 球. XD

Mike Cash · 13 Oct 2012

What alternative meaning of 球 were you thinking of?

Lotorie · 13 Oct 2012

@Andromedashun :

ズバリ直球。

ずばり (adv) decisively; decidedly; once and for all; unreservedly; frankly; (P); ED
直球【ちょっきゅう(P); ちょくきゅう】 (1) {baseb} (See 変化球) straight ball (pitch); (2) straight; frank; (P); ED

Andromedashun · 13 Oct 2012

Lotorie said:
Andromedashu :

ズバリ直球。

ずばり (adv) decisively; decidedly; once and for all; unreservedly; frankly; (P); ED
直球【ちょっきゅう(P); ちょくきゅう】 (1) {baseb} (See 変化球) straight ball (pitch); (2) straight; frank; (P); ED

It appears right after the (1) one you point out: (2) straight; frank
In my native language, we can know the meaning of 直球 by knowing the On meaning of a Kanji.

Mike Cash said:
Lately I'm noticing that you like to answer questions you really don't understand. That isn't very helpful.

Just what the heck are you saying? If you can point out what is wrong what my first reply then go ahead. Sitting there and whine doesn't make it seems you are correct.

Toritoribe · 13 Oct 2012

Lotorie said:
You think, Kiku is "ask" here, but why ? It could be "listen", no ?

遠まわしに is not used with 聞く when 聞く means a volitional action "to listen" (聴く). It's only used for a non-volitional action "to hear" like 遠まわしに聞こえてくる. 聞いてみる is volitional, so 遠まわしに聞いてみよう can't be "to listen".

Lotorie · 13 Oct 2012

Toritoribe said:
遠まわしに is not used with 聞く when 聞く means a volitional action "to listen" (聴く). It's only used for a non-volitional action "to hear" like 遠まわしに聞こえてくる. 聞いてみる is volitional, so 遠まわしに聞いてみよう can't be "hear".

Thank you for the grammatical explanation.

Didn't want to start a fight between Mike and Andromedashun.

Hum, does the baseball thing is metaphor ?

Try to hit the ball (answer the question). It could be an straight ball (easy question) or a curveball (very difficult to hit, tricky question)?

Toritoribe · 13 Oct 2012

Sorry, I fixed my previous post.

As in the dictionary, ﾆ炭ﾆ弛ﾆ椎?窶卍ｼ窶ｹ窶ｦ means "(to ask) straightly/frankly/without using any roundabout ways" here. It's originally from a baseball term, but is nothing to do with ball in this case.

Mike Cash · 14 Oct 2012

Andromedashun said:
It appears right after the (1) one you point out: (2) straight; frank
In my native language, we can know the meaning of 直球 by knowing the On meaning of a Kanji.

It didn't seem to work this time. You're not answering questions about your native language; you're answering questions about Japanese. Unless your native language has imported American baseball into its culture and created baseball terms in kanji, then you were in no position to answer the question.

Just what the heck are you saying? If you can point out what is wrong what my first reply then go ahead. Sitting there and whine doesn't make it seems you are correct.

You guessed at "straight" from 直 and got it close enough, yet completely missed the baseball metaphor. When it was pointed out to you, you then said the whole ズバリ直球 phrase meant "straight" and had nothing to do with "ball".

Have you forgotten クリスタル線 already? When you don't know what is being asked, you needn't try to answer the question.

Andromedashun · 14 Oct 2012

You guessed at "straight" from 直 and got it close enough, yet completely missed the baseball metaphor. When it was pointed out to you, you then said the whole ズバリ直球 phrase meant "straight" and had nothing to do with "ball".

Have you forgotten クリスタル線 already? When you don't know what is being asked, you needn't try to answer the question.

What if it is a metaphor? Even if you know that means metaphor, you can't understand it if you don't know what exactly what it means. I don't know what you're trying to argue here, but 直球 clearly mean ''frankly/straight''. Knowing and understanding is different. There a lot of people who aren't there in Japan and learn everything through dailylife. Only knowing is surely wrong to progress in any foreign language.

And I didn't guess. Check this example:
奥歯に物の挟まった言い方をせず、ズバリ直球で言ってあげる事をお勧めします。
I recommend giving it to them straight, don't waffle your way around the subject.

Knowing when 聞く is "to listen" or "to ask"

Lotorie

先輩

Andromedashun

先輩

Lotorie

先輩

Andromedashun

先輩

Mike Cash

骨も命も皆此の土地に埋めよう

Andromedashun

先輩

Mike Cash

骨も命も皆此の土地に埋めよう

Lotorie

先輩

Andromedashun

先輩

Toritoribe

松葉解禁

Lotorie

先輩

Toritoribe

松葉解禁

Mike Cash

骨も命も皆此の土地に埋めよう

Andromedashun

先輩

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