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Japanese "Scientific Whaling"

Chi65

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Informations about scientific whaling:

Kidzone - Whale and Dolphin Conservation
3500551523


Clear enough for a start?
 
I think this part says it all:


It would cost more for the Japanese to conduct non-lethal research because they wouldn't have the whale meat to sell afterwards!
 
Yes, we are definitely on to something here.

I think it's about time the whalers and JP government came clean and actually told the truth as to what they are doing instead of hiding behind a curtain.
 
As if that is a reason or excuse for killing after all. . .:-(
They simply should not do it then, because it basically can be done another way. . .if not by them, then others, right?
What is the whaling company, if he gives his acceptance to this?
Nothing better!
The Japanese might even get additional helpers for another way from the anti-whaling front, if you think it through, but as long as they have excessive(!) commercial goals with whale-meat, they will get nothing but hate in the end, when this becomes clear in the broad public. And as said, Davos is already at it.
It also says at another part once more, that they simply did not consider or work it out enough, so what.
Eating habits? Excuse me, if I laugh even louder now. . .(not at you, S., you probably understand)
A real bad joke to fool people.

It seems to be a fine and very informed whale page, by the way!
Worth to be watched.
Wiltshire, UK based, actually.

Sorry, Kyoto retournee, you were faster, and I agree completely with you.

Berlin Sherlock ;-)
 
And after all, they have too much (contaminated) whale meet in their freezers already, think about this part!
And they knew it before, thus its a complete mismanagement, and thats one of the reasons, why they now have to manipulate the people to come back to eat their crap, argh...

This bubble will burst, sooner or later.
 
More about the first quotes:

 
More informations, please, the full text on

http://www.panda.org/news_facts/newsroom/index.cfm?uNewsID=13793&uLangID=1

 
All the more reason for Japanese to pursue commercial whaling.

I wonder what are the anti-whaling advocates are thinking by criticizing Japanese whaling as scientific research. Politically, there is absolutely no way that the Japanese government will give up whaling in the foreseeable future. So if the international community chooses to criticize the research purpose, Japan has no choice but to go commercial even if it means ditching IWC.

Japanese officials have clearly stated that they "postponed" hunting 50 humpback whales for the time being because they wanted to give IWC chairman the last chance to normalize the dysfunctional organization. I don't know how serious they are, but it's obvious that Japan is getting close to the edge.

Would you rather keep Japanese whaling under "research" which will effectively lock the quota at the current (more than sustainable) level, or would you rather push Japan and the rest of the whaling nations out of IWC and risk less-regulated commercial whaling? Politically, there's no likely alternatives.

In the diplomatic world, you can't always get 100% of what you want.
 
Japans research programme is very scientifical and there is nothing illeagal about it. Why dont you go to IWC web page and check it for yourself instead of getting biased info through close minded anti whaling fanatics about IWC and Japans scientific research.

Whaling is by far the most strictly regualted whild hunt there is on this planet. I would welcome other type of wild hunt to be as monitored and scientific as whaling.

It is hard to dicsuss whaling with people who know nothing about it and who are close minded towards other cultures.
 
Attitudes on whaling

Respondents in Australia, England, Germany and the U.S. held opinions markedly different from those expressed by Japanese and Norwegians when each was questioned about whaling.

For example, when asked whether they "opposed the hunting of whales under any circumstances" a sizeable majority of respondents in Australia and Germany agreed (by a two to one margin). However, even larger majorities (two and a half to three to one) in Japan and Norway disagreed with the statement that whales should not be hunted under any circumstances. Opposition to whaling under any circumstances was more moderate in the U.S. (a four to three majority opposing whaling) and even more evenly divided in England with 43% opposed to whaling, 37% not opposed, and a further 19% expressing no strong opinion one way or the other.

In Germany and Australia about half the respondents (60% in the U.S.) believe there are less than 10,000 minke whales in the world, and only about 5% thought that the number was greater than 100,000. Respondents in Japan and Norway were three to four times as likely to select a correct answer for minke whale population levels compared to those in Australia, England, Germany, or the U.S.

Conclusions

The public in each country appears to have only a limited amount of accurate knowledge concerning whales and issues related to whaling. However, somewhat greater knowledge was possessed by the public in the two countries (Japan and Norway) where support for whaling is strongest.


highnorth.no
 

I also did go to the IWC webpage before, often enough, don't worry.
Plus to many other ones.
Certain facts remain the same, and I don't think, other pages with informations from other scientists are closed minded. In fact, it appears much more, that the closedmindedness is on the whaler side.
To see, what is ignored there, does not take much. Almost everything, that is not grown on their own field, although their own field ignores the poison on this one. Which really does not make them very reliable at all.

Commercial whaling or scientific whaling leads to the very same, eating and distributing poisoned and thus unnecessary meet.

The rest is blabla and nothing but distractions.
 
In fact, it appears much more, that the closedmindedness is on the whaler side.

Why? You sound like a sausage eating imperialist for saying this. Am I telling you to stop eating sausages? I dont think so.
 
Sausages are not half as contaminated as whale meat, particularly not those from eco-shops. So what is the blaming for? And it has nothing to do with imperialists, thats hilarious, as so much from you.
If you wish to go on poisioning with whale meat, you can do so. That does not change the fact, that its poisoned, nor has that to do with me, in case you can think clear sometimes.
Your posts like this are clear trollings, nothing else.
 
Japan actually makes a loss from whaling. It costs 3000 million yen to go whale each year, and from selling the whale meat and by-products of scientific research they get 2700 million yen, the Japanese Government has to fund the rest. Also, at the rate that Japan is taking Minke whales (which makes over 95% of their catch) if only 1 in 800 Minke whales breed the population will be sustained.
 
This morning I read a news and just laughed.
I just come back here to show the aussie joke.

www news.com.au/story/0,23599,23468776-421,00.html
Japan cries foul over Australia's dugong hunt

"The Australian Government rejects all lethal uses of whales and yet supports sustainable utilisation in its own national hunting of the dugong."

Federal Environment Minister Peter Garrett said there was no analogy between Japanese whaling and the killing of dugongs. He said the federal Government was actively engaged in several programs to protect dugongs.

Torres Shire Deputy Mayor Allan Ketchell said dugongs were an important traditional food for Islanders, but because there were no limits and the sea mammals were easy to catch with motorised boats, too many were being killed.

"Sometimes people go out and spear five or six when one or two a month should be enough," he said.

Australian local rule
#Killing wild kangaroo (sustainable) OK
#Killing wild dugong (IUCN lists as species vulnerable to extinction),(sustainable) OK
#Killing wild Mink whale ( IUCN list the northern species as Lower Risk/Near Threatened and the southern as Lower Risk/Conservation dependent ),(sustainable) Never!!

"Very Fair and Scientific Attitude"
 
"Sometimes people go out and spear five or six when one or two a month should be enough," he said.
Five or six sea animals a month to feed Islanders is a far cry from the 900+ whales Japan wants to harvest for the whole Japanese population.
I don't know what you are trying to prove. By anyones standards killing five or six animals of any kind a month to feed the locals isn't considered an offense.
Oh, and the link didn't even work

EDIT:
From the same website...
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,23474310-421,00.html?from=public_rss

THE world population of the Antarctic minke whale, the main species hunted by the Japanese, is half what it was thought to be, after a more accurate analysis of survey numbers.

*rolls eyes*
 
Five or six sea animals a month to feed Islanders is a far cry from the 900+ whales Japan wants to harvest for the whole Japanese population.

What true conservationists consider is not "five or six" versus "900+", but the ability of the exploited population to sustain such a level of anthropogenic removals.

The article suggests that even the most pessimistic estimate puts the Antarctic minke whale population at over 200,000.
900+ is less than 0.5% of even this most pessimistic of population estimates.

By anyones standards killing five or six animals of any kind a month to feed the locals isn't considered an offense.

They are believed to be taking more than that in total, and further, how many dugongs are there in the population that the Australians are hunting? Do you think that there is no chance at all that this population could be depleted locally?
 
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I wonder if we are reading the same article. The article states:

James Cook University researcher Ivan Lawler said a university study had concluded that in the Torres Strait, about 100 dugongs a year - 10 per cent of the current harvest - could be taken sustainably.

They are overhunting creature by ten times the number considered to be sustainable by the Australian researcher.


So they DO kill >1000 dugongs a year. So I wonder if you would like to retract your statement.


Again from the article,
Environment Minister Peter Garrett said the dugong was not listed as a threatened species in Australia, and harvesting the sea mammals for traditional food was not comparable to Japan's "industrial" whaling.

TripLover, you are right, this has got to be a joke! I double checked the date to make sure that it wasn't released on Apr.1.

The fact that dugong was not listed as a threatened species in Australia is a disgrace as self-proclaimed conservationists. Garrett is right that Japan's sustainable whaling is not comparable to the irresponsible exploitation of the rare and endangered dugongs.
 
Good lord, look what the cat dragged in. I was wondering how long it would take you two to rise from the dead.

Anyways, you are acting as if hunting Dugongs is some sort of widespread industrialized practice. The Dugongs are being hunted by island aborigines, this is not some massive government funded operation as is the case with Japan, and the practice was banned by the Australian Government since the 1970s, selling Dugong meat (in Australia) is illegal.
You call Australia a disgrace for this but it's like blaming Canada and America for the actions of Eskimos or S. Americans for the forest tribes actions, it's simply not comparable.
As we all know, the natives tend to go about their business while the Government and general public rarely look their way unless a scandal pops up. I doubt the general public (and even many government officials) even knew this was taking place. And the only people actually defending killing the Dugongs is the aborigines themselves.

But I like how suddenly you two became champions of the Dugong while the whale can still go to hell. Nice.

And I noticed how the two of you didn't bother to comment on:
THE world population of the Antarctic minke whale, the main species hunted by the Japanese, is half what it was thought to be, after a more accurate analysis of survey numbers.
 
Even if it is only the Aborigines hunting the dugongs, they still catch more dugongs then Japan takes whales. Also, Japan is legally required to sell the by-products of scientific whaling because thats part of the clause that allows scientific whaling. And before anyone can cast doubt on "scientific whaling" the clause is specifically for what Japan is currently doing and the IWC has no problem with what they do, its only America and Australia.
 

You, as well as few other people on this forum, seem to have some irrational grudge against commercial utilization of natural resources. What is important is whether or not the hunting is sustainable, not whether the meat is consumed locally or sold in supermarkets. It's not right to overhunt endangered species just because the hunters are aborigines. Conversely, there's nothing wrong with commercial harvest of a species in a sustainable manner.

What about kangaroos? They are overtly hunted commercially in a much larger scale than whales in Australia. I think it's okay as long as it's sustainable, but would you oppose it because it's commercial?

You call Australia a disgrace for this but it's like blaming Canada and America for the actions of Eskimos or S. Americans for the forest tribes actions, it's simply not comparable.

I did and I do denounce Canada for the hypocrisy of critisizing sustainable commercial whaling while condoning their own people hunting some of the endangered whale species. I don't blame the Eskimos themselves as long as the whaling is performed sustainably.
 
Good lord, look what the cat dragged in. I was wondering how long it would take you two to rise from the dead.

You need not make comments such as that.

Anyways, you are acting as if hunting Dugongs is some sort of widespread industrialized practice.

Nonsense.

What is important is sustainability. Not absolute numbers (or technology employed). There is a difference.

But I like how suddenly you two became champions of the Dugong while the whale can still go to hell. Nice.

As I pointed out in my previous comment, the Antarctic minke whale is clearly not under threat from human hunting at the present time.

You should be careful about jumping to conclusions about what the (as of yet unconfirmed) estimates mean in terms of trends in abundance. The IWC scientific committee has given a range of possible reasons for the decline in abundance *estimates*, of which only one possibility is that such a decline is real. And at any rate, there are hundreds of thousands of them.
 
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It was never said that it was 5/6 a month, but 5/6 a trip. A single group can make 20+ trips per month which brings it closer to a possible 100 per month per group
 
I don't know why you three are acting as if I (or the majority of the Australian public) is for this. Like I said, the only people actually defending this is the aborigines, the Australian Government long ago made efforts to stop any commercial hunting and selling of Dugong meat as I pointed out before.
You are taking the actions of island tribes who don't want to let go of ancient practices and putting it as the actions of Australia as a whole, which is ridiculous.

The IWC scientific committee has given a range of possible reasons for the decline in abundance *estimates*, of which only one possibility is that such a decline is real. And at any rate, there are hundreds of thousands of them.

So the estimates suddenly turn out to be wrong, they overshot the mark by about half which is no small error. So much for that unshakable faith in the numbers. But, there are only a few hundred thousand of these animals in the world and you are still for the commercial hunting of them despite all evidence that 'sustainable' hunting is rarely ever that and even when Minke whales are regarded as high risk animals for extinction.
Add to that the fact that it has been proven there is very little market for whale meat in Japan, the stores are piling up and the government is actually putting money into the operation to make up for the loss ..... it seems like absolute madness that anyone is rallying for it.

To be honest, I really can't see what you are fighting for.
Japans right to hunt another marine species to the brink of extinction as they have in the past? while at the same time losing money over this 'scientific whaling' and accumulating tons of meat that nobody seems to want and all this just to prove that they 'don't have to listen to what the west says'?
I mean...wow.
 

There are 900 000 of them, which is a large number by anyones standards. Also, I would like to know who exactly thinks they are high risk?


So, basically, what your saying is that using scientific whaling as a guise for commercial whaling and taking a species of whale near to extinction and losing money by this is ridiculous and simply not logical. I have to agree, you make a valid point, this does not sound like something a rational nation would do. However, I can propose an alternative hypothesis. Maybe, they are actually doing scientific whaling. I know crazy, isn't it? Just bear with me. Then, say there was this clause, in the whaling memoriam that said they can do scientific whaling, and said the byproducts shouldn't go to waste. So Japan does this scientific whaling, and as they still make a loss, it obviously can't be commercial. It accounts for everything. Coincidence? Maybe, but unlikely.
 
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