- 5 Apr 2012
- 438
- 46
They send a kid to crush a car. As usual, they hides behind kids, suckers ...
Japan and Island Claims
- Thread starter SevenStarsHK2N
- Start date
They send a kid to crush a car. As usual, they hides behind kids, suckers ...
- 17 Sep 2005
- 6,017
- 1,970
Another reason to want an island or even just a rock in the middle of the ocean is that it increases the size your exclusive economic zone.
- 11 Aug 2012
- 25
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I still find this whole fight over these small islands to be funny. Simply because the people and governments involved have way bigger issues to deal with right now. Also, even if some of the islands in question hold oil or natural gas, one could never really know if there is even enough to warrant a full scale drilling operation. The cost of shipping, supplies and manpower needed to establish a drilling operation could cost more then what any natural resources on the islands are worth.
- 17 Sep 2005
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Technology is getting better every day. It may be too expensive today to exploit any resources found on/near the islands, but tomorrow will have a new set of rules governing it. Otherwise, why else would Russia have bothered to plant a little Russian flag underwater on the North Pole some time ago?
If you ask me, the exclusive economic zone and the mineral rights that come along with it are reason enough to pursue territorial claims in the high waters.
If you ask me, the exclusive economic zone and the mineral rights that come along with it are reason enough to pursue territorial claims in the high waters.
- 11 Aug 2012
- 25
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You do have a point. With that being said I still think this is one of those issues that could get really ugly, really fast. Tensions in the region have been pretty high as of late and peoples reactions have become pretty negative so far. Do people really want to see if it can get any worse at this point? Also the last thing our government needs to do is get involved. No matter who's side the US is on it could end badly. Pissing off Russia or China at this point is a bad idea.
- 17 Sep 2005
- 6,017
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Apparently some do. There were the Hong Kong activists and then the Japanese activists on Senkaku in the news recently. In my opinion these people do not help. They only heighten tensions. But they show, too, that for some people these territorial claims are a heartfelt matter of national pride. And it cuts both ways.
- 14 Mar 2002
- 21,054
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With the Takeshima controversy heating up too, it's good to see gestures of goodwill and harmony such as this one by a guy named Koichi Kuwabara, just to put things a bit in perspective. 
[video=youtube_share;kXqWJNOAX8M]
[video=youtube_share;kXqWJNOAX8M]
- 24 Jun 2012
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- Thread starter
- #33
- 14 Mar 2002
- 21,054
- 18,910
I have cleaned up this thread and moved all posts not directly related to the topic of island claims to a new thread in the "Serious Discussions" subforum. Kindly stay on topic when posting to this thread.
- 14 Mar 2002
- 21,054
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This is just in (a quick update posted from the smartphone):
UPDATE: Noda government to buy Senkaku Islands for 2 billion yen - AJW by The Asahi Shimbun
How and when will China strike back?
UPDATE: Noda government to buy Senkaku Islands for 2 billion yen - AJW by The Asahi Shimbun
How and when will China strike back?
- 11 Aug 2012
- 25
- 5
Lets say the "owners" family bought the rights to the island back in the 1800 through a deal recognized by China and Japan. Realistically China would have no rights to the island.
There would have to be some legal documents to back up this owners claim and I'm sure the Japanese government wouldn't be stupid enough buy this island without receiving them. I also hope this isn't the Japanese government trying to pull a fast one. If so it could be a tipping point and we might see a conflict soon between China and Japan.
There would have to be some legal documents to back up this owners claim and I'm sure the Japanese government wouldn't be stupid enough buy this island without receiving them. I also hope this isn't the Japanese government trying to pull a fast one. If so it could be a tipping point and we might see a conflict soon between China and Japan.
China has a corrupted goverment. I see countless times that Chinese officers stole a truck load of tax money and disappeared. I think Chinese should worry more about their corrupted goverment rather fighting for a wasted island.
However, if navies of both countries gotta fight, I'll lay my bet on Japan goverment. Their naval warfare were documented and developed more than 100 years already.
However, if navies of both countries gotta fight, I'll lay my bet on Japan goverment. Their naval warfare were documented and developed more than 100 years already.
- 14 Mar 2002
- 21,054
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On topic: an editorial by Ralph A. Cossa of the Pacific Forum CSIS:
Tokyo-Seoul: enough is enough!
Concise summary of the current state of affairs between South Korea and Japan and the well-known issues separating both countries: comfort women, Takeshima/Dokdo, the sincerety of past Japanese apologies and wartime compensation claims. Cossa calls on both countries to accept third-party mediation in their territorial disputes and compensation claims and urges to the US government to act as a mediator.
Tokyo-Seoul: enough is enough!
Concise summary of the current state of affairs between South Korea and Japan and the well-known issues separating both countries: comfort women, Takeshima/Dokdo, the sincerety of past Japanese apologies and wartime compensation claims. Cossa calls on both countries to accept third-party mediation in their territorial disputes and compensation claims and urges to the US government to act as a mediator.
There was a huge protest against Japan in China yesterday. I think that Japanese today is quite peacuful compare to Americans or Imperial Japanese in the past. China lost the islands in the last war to Japan and U.N decided to not give it back to China when Japan lost the war in 1945.
- 24 Jun 2012
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- Thread starter
- #40
Looks like China is taking it to the wire.
Economics is war by other means.
China feels it can destroy the Japanese economy while only taking minor economic damage itself.
China is apparently Japans biggest creditor and holds 230bn dollars worth of Japanese debt.
This gives them power in the WTO.
If china cut off rare earth materials from Japan, Then Japanese industry will be hit hard.
If Japan cut off value added products from China (cars and telly's) then the chinese will just buy them from else where, further more this will hurt Japan
The article is worth a read.
I don't see how Japan has any real moves to make
Beijing hints at bond attack on Japan - Telegraph
Having read that, I think they may well end up in the hands of China.
I hope the government didn't pay too much lol
Economics is war by other means.
China feels it can destroy the Japanese economy while only taking minor economic damage itself.
China is apparently Japans biggest creditor and holds 230bn dollars worth of Japanese debt.
This gives them power in the WTO.
If china cut off rare earth materials from Japan, Then Japanese industry will be hit hard.
If Japan cut off value added products from China (cars and telly's) then the chinese will just buy them from else where, further more this will hurt Japan
The article is worth a read.
I don't see how Japan has any real moves to make
Beijing hints at bond attack on Japan - Telegraph
Having read that, I think they may well end up in the hands of China.
I hope the government didn't pay too much lol
- 14 Mar 2002
- 21,054
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If China wants to become a big player - respected, and not feared - they should start behaving like one. Currently, they are acting like the neighbourhood bully, targetting Japan, but with Vietnam, the Philippines and others in line for their bashing, too.
I believe that in the end (once the Chinese government reshuffle will have been concluded), reason will prevail.
I believe that in the end (once the Chinese government reshuffle will have been concluded), reason will prevail.
You gotta remember that Japan is the biggest creditor of USA.
China is the biggest creditor of Japan. Japan is the biggest creditor of US. US is the largest foreign market of China and everyone.
If China destroys Japan economic by attacking the debt market, trust me we all (including Chinese themself) will sink like Beyang fleet.
- 24 Jun 2012
- 232
- 31
- Thread starter
- #43
I'm pretty sure that china is biggest creditor of USA.
something to the tune of 14 trillion dollars, if i remember correctly.
ok so 14 trillion is the entire US debt, not the amount they owe china.
But china is very much the largest creditor of the US.
If it comes to a economic war. It will hurt the Chinese economy, but will completely destroy the already fragile Japanese economy.
something to the tune of 14 trillion dollars, if i remember correctly.
ok so 14 trillion is the entire US debt, not the amount they owe china.
But china is very much the largest creditor of the US.
If it comes to a economic war. It will hurt the Chinese economy, but will completely destroy the already fragile Japanese economy.
Yes China has a corrupted government. But I don't think Chinese would realize this fact
it's just like they are socialized so that everyone will think corruption is normal, as normal as sleeping and eating
in their moral sense, they just don't treat corruption as illegal or bad to others, although we do
- 24 Jun 2012
- 232
- 31
- Thread starter
- #45
Japan calling chinese government corrupt
Is like the Pot calling the kettle black
Is like the Pot calling the kettle black
Japan calling chinese government corrupt
Is like the Pot calling the kettle black
i guess the difference between Japan & China is on the different atmosphere? i.e. how citizens view corruption?
- 24 Jun 2012
- 232
- 31
- Thread starter
- #48
Getting back to the topic of Island claims, specifically against China.
The problem for Japan is that China has more moves to make, and is in a stronger position.
China also REALLY wants them.
I would not be surprised if China uses it's leverage with the US, to get them to turn a blind eye while China confirms it's ownership.
either way it's not looking good for Japan,
and if they are planning to scuttle their reactors, they could really do with the oil
The problem for Japan is that China has more moves to make, and is in a stronger position.
China also REALLY wants them.
I would not be surprised if China uses it's leverage with the US, to get them to turn a blind eye while China confirms it's ownership.
either way it's not looking good for Japan,
and if they are planning to scuttle their reactors, they could really do with the oil
sfbaywalk
後輩
- 9 Feb 2008
- 23
- 5
Comments on the islands off the coast of Taiwan.
1. We really should call them the Sudoku Islands
2. Google satellite view blacks out the largest of the islands. Well, maybe not the largest but there is something odd out there. See this view: Google Maps
3. How can someone claim to own them? Where is the deed filed? Makes no sense.
New York Times editorial and commentary http://kristof.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/09/19/the-inconvenient-truth-behind-the-diaoyusenkaku-islands/
1. We really should call them the Sudoku Islands
2. Google satellite view blacks out the largest of the islands. Well, maybe not the largest but there is something odd out there. See this view: Google Maps
3. How can someone claim to own them? Where is the deed filed? Makes no sense.
New York Times editorial and commentary http://kristof.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/09/19/the-inconvenient-truth-behind-the-diaoyusenkaku-islands/
Last edited:
- 4 Oct 2012
- 2,427
- 316
As individuals with no political power and not (I believe) willing or wanting to be vassals, the very first most important question we should all be demanding be answered with regard to any island claim is: Who lives there and what do they want?
The problem with the Kuriles is that they are inhabited, but so many of the inhabitants were displaced by the war. Should they get a say? Well there is no clear set of rules governing this unfortunately, even though its all our best interests that there should be.
So its not really a question of if Japan has a valid claim to the Kuriles. Its a question of if a majority of people living on the Kuriles want to be part of Russia or Japan. Until I see that vote taken, both governments can go to hell.
And it might seem out of the blue, but I think its a shame on all of you who overlooked the desire of the residents and instead empower political thugs by talking about inhabited land and its peoples as if they were just some commodity to passed around and won by war. Smarten up please. That is the whole reason why Argentina has no claim to the Falklands. The people living there don't want to Argentian. Is clear as day. The people there are British, they speak English, and they want to remain a part of Britain. If proximity were part of any valid claim on inhabited land, then then France could claim Spain and vice-versa. Preposterous!
Of course this does not apply to Dokdo or Diaoyu/Senkakus) as they are uninhabited. With those its all about current control. Korea has held Dokdo too long for Japan to have a valid claim in my opinion, and while that is not the law, it should be. In the case of the Senkakus, China has not held them in over a hundred years! Their claim is purely historical, but the way I see it, its like the lost and found; things don't sit there forever waiting to be picked up. After a while ownership changes and that is that. America took the Senkakus in WWII and gave them to Japan. They belong to Japan now. That said, Japan did steal them during the Sino-Japanese war, and if Japan now renounces war, Japan should return those spoils of war to China. Japan has every right to keep them, but the action is downright unneighborly.
If it were up to me I would return Diaoyu/Senkakus to the OTHER China, Taiwan. I would clear Japan's name and conscience through returning stolen property. I would keep Taiwan as a close ally through this gift. And I would prevent Taiwan joining with mainland China in renewed hate of Japan. But of course every government is ruled by politicians, and politicians are ruled by greed, so that will never happen until I am made King of Japan.
I just hope to God there is no war over those stupid little islands. Anyone wants to assassinate Shintaro Ishihara has my blessing.
---------- Post added at 10:12 ---------- Previous post was at 09:52 ----------
A rather nonsensical statement, Thomas, as those neighbors also have competing claims with each other. Its not at all odd that China has more competing claims. Its a huge country of ancient history surrounded by a hoard of smaller countries. Kids know this from the playing the game of Risk!
The only ridiculous land claim I know of concerning China is Tibet, and as I mentioned above, its because the people who live there did not and do not want be a part of China, and that should count above all.
But Diaoyu/Senkakus were Chinese before they were Japanese. And even though I support the Japanese claim, China's belly aching is not surprising at all. In the Spratly Islands claims, China took a lot of that by war, just as the U.S. did across the Pacific.
But I have a feeling that you will dismiss China's claims altogether, just for not liking China. But then the question is who is the rightful owner when only, for example, the claims of Vietnam and the Philippines are left? If you answer "Well, anybody but China!" its obviously just a disgusting bias talking, isn't it? No. China's claims are, in general, as valid as everybody else's.
The problem with the Kuriles is that they are inhabited, but so many of the inhabitants were displaced by the war. Should they get a say? Well there is no clear set of rules governing this unfortunately, even though its all our best interests that there should be.
So its not really a question of if Japan has a valid claim to the Kuriles. Its a question of if a majority of people living on the Kuriles want to be part of Russia or Japan. Until I see that vote taken, both governments can go to hell.
And it might seem out of the blue, but I think its a shame on all of you who overlooked the desire of the residents and instead empower political thugs by talking about inhabited land and its peoples as if they were just some commodity to passed around and won by war. Smarten up please. That is the whole reason why Argentina has no claim to the Falklands. The people living there don't want to Argentian. Is clear as day. The people there are British, they speak English, and they want to remain a part of Britain. If proximity were part of any valid claim on inhabited land, then then France could claim Spain and vice-versa. Preposterous!
Of course this does not apply to Dokdo or Diaoyu/Senkakus) as they are uninhabited. With those its all about current control. Korea has held Dokdo too long for Japan to have a valid claim in my opinion, and while that is not the law, it should be. In the case of the Senkakus, China has not held them in over a hundred years! Their claim is purely historical, but the way I see it, its like the lost and found; things don't sit there forever waiting to be picked up. After a while ownership changes and that is that. America took the Senkakus in WWII and gave them to Japan. They belong to Japan now. That said, Japan did steal them during the Sino-Japanese war, and if Japan now renounces war, Japan should return those spoils of war to China. Japan has every right to keep them, but the action is downright unneighborly.
If it were up to me I would return Diaoyu/Senkakus to the OTHER China, Taiwan. I would clear Japan's name and conscience through returning stolen property. I would keep Taiwan as a close ally through this gift. And I would prevent Taiwan joining with mainland China in renewed hate of Japan. But of course every government is ruled by politicians, and politicians are ruled by greed, so that will never happen until I am made King of Japan.
I just hope to God there is no war over those stupid little islands. Anyone wants to assassinate Shintaro Ishihara has my blessing.
---------- Post added at 10:12 ---------- Previous post was at 09:52 ----------
A rather nonsensical statement, Thomas, as those neighbors also have competing claims with each other. Its not at all odd that China has more competing claims. Its a huge country of ancient history surrounded by a hoard of smaller countries. Kids know this from the playing the game of Risk!
The only ridiculous land claim I know of concerning China is Tibet, and as I mentioned above, its because the people who live there did not and do not want be a part of China, and that should count above all.
But Diaoyu/Senkakus were Chinese before they were Japanese. And even though I support the Japanese claim, China's belly aching is not surprising at all. In the Spratly Islands claims, China took a lot of that by war, just as the U.S. did across the Pacific.
But I have a feeling that you will dismiss China's claims altogether, just for not liking China. But then the question is who is the rightful owner when only, for example, the claims of Vietnam and the Philippines are left? If you answer "Well, anybody but China!" its obviously just a disgusting bias talking, isn't it? No. China's claims are, in general, as valid as everybody else's.
