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Japan acted worse than Germany during WWII



1 - The japanese quite often treated its own people as it treated others. Therefore it would be wrong to say that they were worse or bad people. Differnt races evole in differnt ways and create there own culture. Just because they did not act in an acceptable way does not make them worse.

2 - The Japanese were going through extreamly hard times with poverty, famine, disease. The Americans made things alot worse and put Japan in a corner hard to get out of. They had little choice then invade other countries for resourses and land.

3 - It was 60 years ago, get over it. Japan has moved on alot since them and pretty much has a non existant military now. They do not was to spend there time argueing with people like you. They have better things to do with there time, like the journey of progression and moving forward like the rest of the world. Why dont you try and do the same. You may very few friends with other countries due to your backward thinking. Move on and find something else to moan about.
 
Tim33 said:
2 - The Japanese were going through extreamly hard times with poverty, famine, disease. The Americans made things alot worse and put Japan in a corner hard to get out of. They had little choice then invade other countries for resourses and land.
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They had little choice? Maybe they could have considered trade instead of war? What are they doing now, without these vast areas they once invaded. Still starving?
 

The Japanese treating each others harshly ? What make you think so ? I have always had the impressions that typical Japanese (there are exceptions) were more polite, more respectful, more open, etc. with each others than with foreigners. During WWII they were even more united emotionally than nowadays due to nationalistic ideals. Like China now that is trying to divert the social tensions toward the outside (i.e. Japan), the Japanese directed their frustrations to other Asian countries rather than start a civil war inside their own country (which had been the trend before Meiji).
 
bossel said:
They had little choice? Maybe they could have considered trade instead of war? What are they doing now, without these vast areas they once invaded. Still starving?
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No but they do import over 60% of there rice from Korea the moment. The need for land and natural resourses for them is alot less due to there development and them becomming so stong economically. Back then they did not have the same option. Also i do believe America was making at hard as possible for Japan to trade anyway.

Maciamo said:
The Japanese treating each others harshly ? What make you think so ? I have always had the impressions that typical Japanese (there are exceptions) were more polite, more respectful, more open, etc.
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Depends on the situation. They were polite and respectful yes that is true, but when it came order and punishment things were generally the same. They were harsh upon there own people for doing something wrong as they were harsh on others.



?? Im not really following, you say they should of started a civil war instead? Would that really of helped? Killing themselves instead of others. If this is what you are saying then i think you speak to highly of everyone in general. I would much rather see someone else starve to death then see myself.

Though forgive my explanation if this is not what you meant.
 
Who cares about who acted worse? Japan and Germany both killed innocent civilians - that's all that matters. But the PRC and the ROK use it again as part of their crusade for humanity where the former still has hidden labor camps.

Singapore, China, Korea, Phillippines.

That's it.

No other native population was systematically massacred anywhere else except for the Taiwanese aboriginal uprising of 1929. How can you say that Japanese massacred all Asians?

Cambodians, Laotians, and Vietnamese were much happier under Japanese than French. Ho Chi Minh said "Its [Japanese] is better than the devil we know [French]". Same with the Burmese, who welcomed the Japanese into Rangoon as liberators from the British. If it was not for the Japanese, Indochinese history would have been more bloody, since in 1945 Japan put Bao Dai of the Ngyugen Dynasty (1802-1945), the Lao king, and Cambodian Prince Sihanouk on the throne as leaders of an "independent" Indochina. True, the Japanese were there, but they had more important battles to fight than massacring Indochinese.

The problem really is against Chinese, Korean, and Filipino civilians, as Malaysia and Singapore saw few Indian or Malay civilian massacres. So why are you speaking of all Asians?
 

I didn't mean that. It's only natural for those countries to want to redirect people's frustration to the outside, and that is what Japan did by invading Asia, and what China is doing now under the Communist regime.

Look at my reply in this post to understand better the situation.
 
If the Chinese people love Japanese people as much as the next person I wonder why the restaurants were attacked in addition to the consulates? I doubt there are government officials operating Japanese owned businesses in China.
 
Tim33-
I'm not certain your three points even begin to justify what the Japanese did in China during the period in question. Japan went way beyond necessity, and spent a great deal of resources committing attrocities. Your points seem to be the kind of excuses that sent thousands of people out into the streets of China last week. China certainly has not forgotton.
 
Hiroshi66 said:
If the Chinese people love Japanese people as much as the next person I wonder why the restaurants were attacked in addition to the consulates? I doubt there are government officials operating Japanese owned businesses in China.
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1) there are about 1,300,000,000 people in China. Only about 40,000 of them have taken part in the demonstrations in Beijing, Shanghai, Shenzen and Chendgu (average 10,000 people per city). Beijing and Shanghai have populations exceeding 10 million, but only 0.1% of the people in these cities (maybe coming from outside) decided to participate in the anti-Japanese protests, although they new about it from the media, internet, etc.

2) Nobody was killed so far. It's normal that windows get smashed or car destroyed during sensitive demonstrations. It also happened in the demonstrations agianst the war in Iraq in Europe or the US (btw, there were 2 million people protesting against the Irar War in London alone, a far cry from 10,000 protesters in Beijing !)

3) Some of the Japanese restaurants targeted were actually owned by Chinese people.

If even 50% of the Chinese really hated the Japanese, they would have destroyed the thousands of Japanese companies in China, would all boycott Japanese products (but in fact buy them in huge quantities), would not travel to Japan (but in fact about 1 million Chinese people visit or move to work or study in Japan each year) and would attack the numerous Japanese tourists or business people in masses. But they don't.
 
Don't forget Shenyang, Maciamo.

You're right. Not all the Chinese hate the Japanese. You are absoleutly right on that. However, not all the Japanese commited these crimes in 1937. Did people take to the streets in Tokyo ordering the Japanese army to massacre Chinese?
 

It was alot differnt world 60 years ago, maybe back then what i said did justify it to them.

Many countries done things back then that people would now look at in discust, for todays standards none of us were innocent.

Its the evolution on society and looking back at such things with hate in our hearts is just going to slow that evolution down.

This generation of Japanese did not go to war and know that it was wrong. However why do they need to apologise for something they were not involved in. The older generation at the time were involved in a very strict controlling government and there was little else they could do other then get involved. But you cant expect these people to apologise either, they to probally thought what they were doing was right and justified. they probally also saw there loved ones die.

I saw a documentary the other day about the Alchwitz death camp(Pardon my spelling on that one) One of the SS soldiers was interviewed. Even today he think what he done was right and for his people. He said he was doing the right thing by killing all those people. The point is thinking was differnt back then, people had there reasons and were largly controlled by the government.

If you want an apology go to the few government leaders of that time. If they are dead then to bad. But a generation of people that had nothing to do with the war should not need to.
 
Hiroshi66 said:
You're right. Not all the Chinese hate the Japanese. You are absoleutly right on that. However, not all the Japanese commited these crimes in 1937. Did people take to the streets in Tokyo ordering the Japanese army to massacre Chinese?
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That's right, but few Japanese complained about what was happening, and few people went against the military regime (usually they were emprisoned or executed).

Anyhow, at the end of the war in 1945, the Japanese Imperial Army has over 5 million men, and already lost 1.7 million soldiers, out of a total population of 70 million at the time. It means that about 20% of the male population was in the army. Without counting the children and the elderly, that is probably about 40% of the adult males. The rest of the active population manufactured weapons, aircrafts, ships, etc. for the war effort or worked for the government. Very few people were not involved in the war in one way or another.
 
It is an insult to those who died, those who suffered and their families to deny history. Japan as a country should acknowledge the past because it is the right and honorable thing to do. (Apologies have been made at different times by different officials, but every time another white washed text book comes out, it erodes their credibility.)
 
Not the Japanese people's actions are the issue, but the Japanese government's.
 
Maciamo: Your statistics may be true, however, think about this for a minute. The government of the 1930s and 1940s was a authoritarian, violent, bloody government - the most brutal Japanese government in history. None of the shogunal governments could even stand up to this.

There was forced conscription. Though many Japanese were taught that death is glory, there was still much conscription, especially during the Pacific War and directly before during the China war. The females and children were forcibly taken out of school and made to work for the war effort. Very few Japanese civilians rushed to make weapons or train with bamboo sticks, especially once the fire raids began to occur in 1944.

If the Japanese government revolted during the war against what happened in China - a mass brutal massacre would occur. The 1918 Rice Revolts in Tokyo were still fresh in the minds of many Japanese - the 1936 coup attempt was even fresher. They knew what the Kempetai and the army would do in the event of even a small demonstration.
 
bossel said:
Not the Japanese people's actions are the issue, but the Japanese government's.
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?? so why are are chinese destroying non japanese government buildings.

I think what you say is indeed the case but if it is then arent the chinese protesters just Idiots?
 
Tim33 said:
I think what you say is indeed the case but if it is then arent the chinese protesters just Idiots?
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I'd say, every protester resorting to violence is an idiot (unless it's self defence).
 
thats new for me i was used to the idea that the nazis were the real cancer of the world but since i have american history and this board i learned how many people died around japan and russia and that's pretty shocking


i am displeased though that the modern german generation still kind fo grows up with the world war 2 stigma even though we can't be blamed. most of that is projected by us themselves (you are german= don't point your finger at stalin or other wars.)

hm interesting!
 
If the Chinese protestors were peaceful I would feel sympathy. The fact that the protestors behaved like mad dogs doesn't do anything for me.
 
Hiroshi66 said:
If the Chinese protestors were peaceful I would feel sympathy. The fact that the protestors behaved like mad dogs doesn't do anything for me.
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not all Chinese protestors protested violently,it is only a portion of protestors that behaved like this.
in fact, the protest in Hong Kong -protestors including students from Nanking- went very peacefully
 
DreamTime ~ Hong Kong is a different area of China which has had a different history. The protestors in Mainland China behaved like mad dogs. Hong Kong Chinese are different from Mainland Chinese. They have had more comfortable lives in the last 50 years. Unlike the mainland who suffered under the brutal rule of Mao and the hardline Maoists, HK was under British rule.
 


not all protestors in Mainaland China behaved like that, in some cities they protested peacefully, in the Western medias they only reported the violent side of the protests. and like I said, in the demonstration in Hong Kong, there were mainlanders in the crowd, including students from Nanking, but they all protested peacefully.
I know about Hong Kong, I was born there.
 
Quite exceptional for a country which is definitely obsessed with small things... like statistics, not to do this when it is not convenient IS the Japanese way....like the numbers of Chinese killed by vicious Japanese soldiers in WW2.
Japan should begin to teach modern history in their schools and inform their ignorant population of the reasons why China ia so angry with these "couched" NON apologies. The emperor himself should apologise to China and then hopefully a new page can be turned in relations between the two countries
 
So should China, celtician. China should revise its textbooks. Tell of the communist atrocities in the early years of the PRC, tell of the annexation of Tibet and how it wasn't rightly theirs. Why is China extempt from writing lies in their textbooks and at the same time telling Japan to revise theirs. Its not fair.
 


there are many Chinese scholars who have expressed their concerns and anger about the Communist government telling lies or hiding their wrong doings in the history textbooks, such as the 'Great Leap Forward' which caused millions of the lives of Chinese citizens in the span of a few years. there are many Chinese groups which supports to free Tibet.
and the Chinese scholars are making efforts and progress to include more facts of the past wrong doings of the Communist government
 
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