"Ja nakute"?

[fixelbrumpf]

I keep on hearing anime characters use this variant of "ja nai" all the time, but I'm still not really sure as to how it is used. How is it different from the "plain" "ja nai"? Is it something like the "te" or the "ta" form of "nai"? The "ku" just screams "adverb ending" for me, though.

I've done a bit of googling and I've seen people translate it as something along the lines of "it's not like A is B". In the first episode of FLCL, when Haruko has just hit Naota with her vespa and thinks Naota's name is Tarou for some reason, Mamimi tells her "Tarou ja nakute!" -- translating "ja nakute" as "it's not like..." wouldn't make a lot of sense in this case, would it? Could someone please shed some light on this? Lots of thanks in advance.

 

[mdchachi]

I think you might be confusing ja naikute with ja nai tte. Listen closely and see if there is really a "ku" in there.

tte is a colloquial contraction of "to iu" which means "to say". The pronunciation difference to "ja nai te" (which doesn't mean anything) and "ja nai tte" is that there is a slight pause (glottal stop or whatever it's called) before "te". You might be mishearing that as another syllable, "ku".

So "Tarou ja nai tte!" would be translated to something like "I didn't say Tarou!" or "It's NOT Tarou!" It means the same thing without the tte but it provides some emphasis; there's a nuance of exasperation like "jeez, I already told you, come on get it right."

 

[PaulTB]

I keep on hearing anime characters use this variant of "ja nai" all the time, but I'm still not really sure as to how it is used. How is it different from the "plain" "ja nai"?

Not by much. As you half guessed "ja nakute" is one of the connective forms of "ja nai". (The other being "ja naide")

I've done a bit of googling and I've seen people translate it as something along the lines of "it's not like A is B".

Well, that's sort-of right - but was it really in that order?

One of the common anime uses of "ja nakute" is as follows:
Char A says something.
Char B responds with something stupid.
Char A starts to reply to Char B as if what they'd said had been sensible and then breaks of with a loud "ja nakute" and continues with something sensible instead.

So the translation needs to be something like "XXX, NOT! YYY" to keep it in the right order - otherwise the humour gets lost. (Translation = Tough)

In the first episode of FLCL, when Haruko has just hit Naota with her vespa and thinks Naota's name is Tarou for some reason, Mamimi tells her "Tarou ja nakute!" -- translating "ja nakute" as "it's not like..." wouldn't make a lot of sense in this case, would it?

You don't need the 'like'. In this case it's exactly the same as "Tarou ja nai!" except that a continuation (such as "Naota da!") is implied by the use of the connective form.

 

[fixelbrumpf]

I see, thanks, Paul! mdchachi, so that' where "tte" comes from, I always thought it was something like a spoken question mark as in "tomodachi tte" (what do you mean, "friends"?)

 

[PaulTB]

I see, thanks, Paul!

I did make one mistake that I should correct.

Although "naide" is a connective form of the negative -nai ending, I'm doubtful that it can be used as "janaide". (An Altavista search would seem to suggest not).

In general "naide" is used in making requests not to do something.

 

[fixelbrumpf]

I did make one mistake that I should correct.

Although "naide" is a connective form of the negative -nai ending, I'm doubtful that it can be used as "janaide". (An Altavista search would seem to suggest not).

I'm not sure, either... I've just remembered, we briefly talked about "naide" used as the connective form of "nai" in morphosyntax class (back then, I thought "oops, this sounds just like the "don't" naide) and I had the impression that it's more or less confined to relatively formal, written Japanese, kind of like the "shi" and "tari" connective forms. I still might be wrong, of course. I think I'm going to ask my Japanese friend when she's back in Germany again.

 

[orochi]

As you guys discussed, じゃなくて is indeed the connective form of じゃない. You can use this form to say things like "I am not ___, I am ___."
For example:
わたしはせんせいじゃなくて、せいとです。
I am not a teacher, I am a student.

If there is nothing following the じゃなくて, then what is said afterwards can be assumed from the context of the conversation. For example:
A:おい！トーマス君！
B:トーマスじゃなくて．．．
A:あ、そうだ！マイク君！
B:はい！

A:Hey, Thomas!
B:I'm not Thomas...
A:Ah, that's right! Mike!
B:Yep!

Also, ないで has two uses. One is to tell someone NOT to do something:
はしらないで！
Don't run!

It is also a "negative connector" and can connect verbs.
きのう、べんきょうしないで、いちにちじゅうテレビみた。
Yesterday I didn't study, I watched TV all day long.

So as you see, ないで is used to modify verbs.

Good luck!

 

[Elizabeth]

I'm not sure, either... I've just remembered, we briefly talked about "naide" used as the connective form of "nai" in morphosyntax class (back then, I thought "oops, this sounds just like the "don't" naide) and I had the impression that it's more or less confined to relatively formal, written Japanese, kind of like the "shi" and "tari" connective forms. I still might be wrong, of course. I think I'm going to ask my Japanese friend when she's back in Germany again.

Shi and of course dewanaku (just not XXXnaku in place of naide) as well as the stem of the masu-base form (ri) are relatively formal connectors, but "tari" of course is a staple of Japanese conversation, along with toka.

Oyasumi, nani shitetano?
Kaimono wo suru toka eiga wo mi ni iku toka...
or Cycling wo shitari, pu-ru de suiei wo shitari shiteta no yo.

There is also the 'ku' in place of 'te' form in a listing of adjectives, but I'm not clear on when or how it can be used. :?

私のパソコンは青くてきれいで、このぐらいです」
私のパソコンは「青く、きれいで、このぐらいです