It's really difficult ??

[jooly brunette]

Hello everyone
Firstly I wanna say you something :joyful:

I Love Japan So much ​

I'm very happy of being here with you my new friends do yo accept me
my dream is to visit JAPAN but how ?????
I don't have any knowledge about their language
I wanna learn japanese language :? please can you help me??
I heard that this language is very difficult but I still wanna try
can you give me some advices ?​

 

[Coffeesan]

Where are you from mate? It is clear English is not you're first language never the less you speak with high coherence. English is one of the worlds hardest languages to learn so well done already. Japanese is indeed extremely hard but it'll get easier with time. The key is too interact with your stimulus in as many ways as possible e.g. writing, reading, speaking, listening etc.

Do you have any experience at all so far? So we know where to start from? also how old are you? I think that would be quite useful to know too.

 

[jooly brunette]

Thank you very very much Coffeesan for your answer
yes you're right, English isn't my first language But I understand it a little and this year I will attend University in order to improve it .
I speak French better and my mother tongue is Arabic . I am interested in the Japanese language (I tried to learn at home but ... ) because I love theire animated drawings, Mangas,.... and wanna be a big manga drawer like them
Oh !! I forgot to tell you something... I'm Moroccan and I'm almost 22 years old
I thank you for a second time

 

[visser300]

Thank you very very much Coffeesan for your answer
yes you're right, English isn't my first language But I understand it a little and this year I will attend University in order to improve it .
I speak French better and my mother tongue is Arabic . I am interested in the Japanese language (I tried to learn at home but ... ) because I love theire animated drawings, Mangas,.... and wanna be a big manga drawer like them
Oh !! I forgot to tell you something... I'm Moroccan and I'm almost 22 years old
I thank you for a second time

Wow, Arabic is the father of all hardest languages in this universe. You will learn Japanese like eating a cake, buddy.

 

[Davey]

start learning Hiragana and Katakana, get yourself a textbook for beginners, and maybe you can make some Japanese friends if there is a Japanese community in the area where you live, through skype, or even JREF FRIENDS

 

[Coffeesan]

Just an addition... Make sure you learn Hiragana first as its the basics of the language and you can technically write everything in Hiragana, whereas in Katakana you cant, Katakana is a supplementary script used for foreign words like Coffee and Computer.

Free Japanese Lessons - Hiragana - The Japanese Alphabet (Hiragana Chart) - Learn to speak the Japanese language online for free!

This is a good site for beginners this is the Hiragana syllabary. Basically like the English alphabet but with syllables. Notice a lot of sounds/letters are missing such as X, V, F (for the most part), Q, and L (although R is similar...). They can make the other sounds when necessary though.

 

[nekojita]

Katakana is not only used for foreign words*, although hiragana is normally the first people learn katakana should be learnt as soon as possible. It doesn't really matter in which order you learn them - most people will learn both in a short space of time, and I can't imagine it would really hurt to learn katakana first (actually you sometimes see this recommended for tourists wanting to learn a little - you're more likely to be able to sound out a word on a menu or sign and make a guess at the meaning for katakana than for hiragana).

Examples of where katakana might be used include on-readings in kanji dictionaries, for emphasis on words not normally written in katakana, names (some personal names, company names including トヨタ, brand names including ヱビス), animal/plant names when in a scientific context, gitaigo/giongo/giseigo (words like ドキドキ).

*even if you accept that コーヒー is a "foreign word", and I would argue that it is a Japanese word of foreign origin - much like the word "coffee" in English, which certainly didn't originate in England. More obvious examples are words like パソコン which have an English origin but aren't easily recognisable as such.

(not that it's relevant to a beginner thread, but you certainly can write without using hiragana: 憲法条文・重要文書 | 日本国憲法の誕生 )

 

[visser300]

May I ask a question: Is it good to use computer to type and learn kana at the beginning level?

 

[Coffeesan]

Lol I dont think I implied Coffee was an English word..

You can learn Katakana first if you like Visser but you wont be able to practice any basic Japanese phrases and sentences as easilly. If you want to learn how to ask things and say things common in Japanese, they arent going to be written in Katakana over Hiragana unless they are packed full of foreign words. When you introduce yourself you do it in Hiragana and only your actual name would be written in Katakana.

 

[nekojita]

Not to belabour the point, but of course coffee is an English word. It's an English word of foreign origin. It appears in English dictionaries and you would expect any native speaker of English to recognise it.
Similarly, コーヒー is a Japanese word of foreign origin. It appears in Japanese dictionaries and you would expect any native speaker of Japanese to recognise it.
I'm not saying it's ideal to learn katakana first. I'm saying it doesn't really matter (since most people will learn them both, to some extent, in a few weeks), but that katakana is not 'just for foreign words' or merely supplemental to hiragana.
This idea that katakana is just for foreign words seems to lead people to two things which are not helpful for the learner:
1. delaying learning katakana because people have been given the impression it's not important.
2. treating katakana words as foreign and somehow not 'real' Japanese.
For visser300: yes, it is a good idea to learn how to write Japanese on the computer. If you are using Windows, there are some guides here for the different versions:
Declan's Guide to Installing and Using Microsoft's Japanese IME - Windows 7, Windows Vista, XP, 2000
(you should not need to buy new software or a different keyboard, but you may need the Windows CD).

 

[visser300]

Thanks mates

 

[AJBryant]

I'd like to throw in a suggestion.

Don't type your studies, practices, or homework. Write it long-hand. That helps reinforce things in your mind, and takes more time to do it. I used to be an absolute WHIZ with kanji, but now I can't recall how to write half the ones I used to do with effortless ease. And I credit that drop in ability to the day I bought my first Japanese word processor.

While I can still *read* more kanji today than I could in 1987, I honestly think I could write more kanji correctly the first time THEN than I can today. And I'm a bit ashamed of that.

 

[jooly brunette]

I'm really lucky because I registered on this site it's very nice of you my friends , now I should begin, by learning hiragana
last year I tried to learn japanese language using this site languageguide.org but it was difficult cuz they don't begin by showing us the alphabet firstly but now I'm motivated

 

[Coffeesan]

I'm really lucky because I registered on this site it's very nice of you my friends , now I should begin, by learning hiragana
last year I tried to learn japanese language using this site languageguide.org but it was difficult cuz they don't begin by showing us the alphabet firstly but now I'm motivated

Take it slow Jooly. A lot of people say its dead easy and you can learn the whole Hiragana syllabry in 2 weeks. Personally it took about 6 before I could recall them all from memory, write them from memory and understand every kana I was seeing on a page. I still forget my R's at times, get them the wrong way round.

I would advise learning the vowels first あいうえお then the K's are a good introduction into Dakuten, once you know the Dakuten changes the K to a G sound you can learn 10 easily while it feels like 5. H/B/P are even better 15 at once but it feels like 5 once you understand how the modifiers work. Learn 5 at a time I recommend. Stick Y and W in the middle somewhere they only have 3/2 characters so they are like an easy break in your studies.

The ''hard'' Hiragana in my opinion are T's and S's because you imagine it to go ''ta ti tu te to'' but in fact ti becomes chi and tu becomes tsu. Then both these weird kana have odd dakuten forms namely ''Ji'' and ''Zu'' when everything else being converted from T has a D sound.
Look up Dakuten or ''Ten ten'' and look up Handakuten or ''Maru'' they are the modifiers. I say this because it took me ages to find out how they worked because I didn't know what they were called so there was nothing to search for on the net so I had to find out on here from someone.

 

[Toritoribe]

The ''hard'' Hiragana in my opinion are T's and S's because you imagine it to go ''ta ti tu te to'' but in fact ti becomes chi and tu becomes tsu. Then both these weird kana have odd dakuten forms namely ''Ji'' and ''Zu'' when everything else being converted from T has a D sound.

It's just the matter of how to ROMANIZE them. In Hepburn romanization, yes, ち and つ are written "chi" and "tsu" respectively, whereas in Nihon-shiki or Kunrei-shiki romanization, they are "ti" and "tu". The key point is that the pronunciation is quite the same in either cases.

Romanization of Japanese - Wikipedia

As for ぢ and づ, they had different pronunciations from じ and ず in Old or Early Middle Japanese. That's why there are two different letters for the same pronunciation. Although ち and つ were also different in that era. For instance, ち was literally pronounced as "ti". ("ti" of tip in English.)

 

[ALG BILAL]

peace upon you​

SHIKKARI SHIRO YO
Take it easy pale .... your mot3er language is arabic nd thats enough to learn any language just remember that your a human bieng not a machine so you can move on step by step no matter how long you would take for example you can watch child animes ...better when it subbed with arabic "" i told you that cuz this kind of anime using the simple words and phrases ...you feel me!!""
otherwise you gonna need a "booklet" to check and list every word you heared this is the better way i guess .so.....gambariyo

 

[Mike Cash]

SHIKKARI SHIRO YO

You really should avoid using phrases you learned from anime/manga. Do you have any idea how RUDE that sounds?

 

[visser300]

You really should avoid using phrases you learned from anime/manga. Do you have any idea how RUDE that sounds?

Why is it so rude???

 

[ALG BILAL]

You really should avoid using phrases you learned from anime/manga. Do you have any idea how RUDE that sounds?

is it realy so rude!!!?...would you tell me why? I hope you have a good reason for that!!bro...

 

[Mike Cash]

You address a complete stranger and the very first words out of your mouth are a very strongly worded COMMAND.....and you have to ASK why it it is rude?

That proves my point about why you shouldn't be using phrases learned from anime/manga.

If a stranger walked up to me and addressed me with Japanese like that I would very strongly resent it. There are people who can talk to me like that, and there are people who can not. Let a stranger try it and the result may very well turn into a fight.

Also, it isn't even really appropriate for the situation, even if worded more politely.

I guess you dont even realize that "I hope you have a good reason for that!!" sounds like a THREAT in English. Was it your intent to threaten me?

 

[Casey4825]

ALG, in English, there are some rules regarding formality of speech and how you talk to someone of similar/ different status. (Ex. You might call a friend "bro" or "homie", but you would call your college professor "doctor" or "professor.") Japanese has many many more rules regarding formality of speech and status.

 

[ALG BILAL]

You address a complete stranger and the very first words out of your mouth are a very strongly worded COMMAND.....and you have to ASK why it it is rude?
That proves my point about why you shouldn't be using phrases learned from anime/manga.
If a stranger walked up to me and addressed me with Japanese like that I would very strongly resent it. There are people who can talk to me like that, and there are people who can not. Let a stranger try it and the result may very well turn into a fight.
Also, it isn't even really appropriate for the situation, even if worded more politely.
I guess you dont even realize that "I hope you have a good reason for that!!" sounds like a THREAT in English. Was it your intent to threaten me?

wow.are you mad from me mike cash?
take it easy ....
firstly /the word i wrote was in the suitable place
cuz the young girl looks like so confused and
Concerned about learn Japanese !!
in other word **i was Encourage her....you got it!
(the word mean s in your language "hold on")
beside that you think im threaten you ?? no Im not you just missed that
but i told you that cuz i was pretty sure i do
nothing wrong .
I guess you dont even realize that "I hope you
have a good reason for that!!" sounds like a
challenge in English.so i was challenge you to prove
that im wrong!!
finally i was wrot 2 words...
now why you so concerned about "SHIKKARI
SHIRO YO" unlike the word"gambariyo"
take care of your self !​

 

[Mike Cash]

You're using words/phrases you don't understand very well and consequently MISusing them. That often happens to people who learn from anime/manga. Those are escapist FANTASY entertainment media and it is a mistake to use phrases from them in real life unless you have some background in studying/using PROPER Japanese.

There is no such word as "ganbariyo" in Japanese.

SHIKKARI SHIRO YO is not an appropriate response to "I have some questions." the verb tense is RUDE RUDE RUDE and it is not situationally correct anyway. This is the problem with learning from subtitled materials.

Please explain to me the difference between the following:

Goshinpai naku
Anshin shite kudasai
Shinpai muyou desu
Shikkari shiro
Shikkari shite kudasai
Shikkari shite
Shikkari shinasai
Shikkari shina
Ganbatte kudasai
Ganbatte kure
Ganbatte
Ganbare
Ganbarou

 

[ALG BILAL]

You're using words/phrases you don't understand very well and consequently MISusing them. That often happens to people who learn from anime/manga. Those are escapist FANTASY entertainment media and it is a mistake to use phrases from them in real life unless you have some background in studying/using PROPER Japanese.

well.this is not quite true!!...cuz you looked to the dark side!!
also it seems like i misused the Previous words cuz i completely forgot when and where do we say it!!

There is no such word as "ganbariyo" in Japanese.

i think that "yo" is just suffix.

SHIKKARI SHIRO YO is not an appropriate response to "I have some questions." the verb tense is RUDE RUDE RUDE and it is not situationally correct anyway. This is the problem with learning from subtitled materials.

like I said before this is the dark side of subtitled materials.... we dont care about tense or somthing ...all we need is just to understand whats going on in anime/movie...

Please explain to me the difference between the following:
Goshinpai naku
Anshin shite kudasai
Shinpai muyou desu
Shikkari shiro
Shikkari shite kudasai
Shikkari shite
Shikkari shinasai
Shikkari shina
Ganbatte kudasai
Ganbatte kure
Ganbatte
Ganbare
Ganbarou

all about the situation
Goshinpai naku/dont worry ---polit sound-- "Dont worry about it" This phrase is used like a formal sound cuz there is the particle "go" ex: we can used it in formal speech like police...etc
Anshin shite kudasai/ please dont bother your self or be assured please
dont worry..---polit sound--i thinke this kind of sounds is more formal and "kudasai"=please.
Shinpai muyou desu/ dont worry
"moyou " =Enough or no need ...
this is not a formal it seems like normal sound.
Shikkari shite * shikkari shiro /hang on or hold on This phrase is used when someone finds a comrade has been hurt.
Shikkari shite kudasai/ hang on please.
Shikkari shinasai/"shinasai/"=please do..."so its polit sound.
Shikkari shina/seems like order
Ganbatte kudasai/do your best please .
Ganbatte /come on!
Ganbatte is more polite than Ganbare Probably just politeness factor each one of them used to encouragement or suggestion.
Ganbarou = banzai like we say ﾂ"Ganbarou algeria!ﾂ" (Hang in there, algeria!). Let's do our best .

how was that!!​

 

[Grandpa Frank]

?? Perhaps the forum needs a new section ??

You're using words/phrases you don't understand very well and consequently MISusing them. That often happens to people who learn from anime/manga. Those are escapist FANTASY entertainment media and it is a mistake to use phrases from them in real life unless you have some background in studying/using PROPER Japanese.

Under "Learning Japanese" we could have '"Fantasy world of anime/manga Japanese"' where no rules apply? We can have members sigh a waiver promising never to come to Japan and use what they learn there.

Uncle Frank