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Is pedophilia a sickness or a crime?

Mike Cash

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Is anybody else getting tired of all the necroposters?
 

Uncle Frank

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Is anybody else getting tired of all the necroposters?

With it being summertime and slow on new posts , at least digging up the dead ones is activity. Maybe it will give the new members something to comment on. Hopefully , when they dig up the zombie threads , they add something worth reading to do with the thread.

Uncle Frank
 
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Mike Cash

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Some do. Most don't.

Maybe we should have a "Is necrophilia a sickness or a crime?" thread. That way when it gets dragged up out of the grave at least the necroposting will be appropriate.
 

Mark of Zorro

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Its an old thread, but still, this is one of the threads that convinced me this forum is open-minded. All the time this thread has been here, it has either not been flamed with mindless rage (much) or those posts have been removed. Either way, the net effect is the same.

To answer the question of whether pedophilia is a sickness or a crime, it is neither. It is popular and common to use the word to mean both or either, but that is complete and total misuse of the concept and the word, and that misuse has a major effect in ensuring the very separate topics are not handled correctly or fairly in the slightest. And I have no hope that the knot of stupidity will ever be untied in my lifetime, because the topics are valued by so many people as topics where they can feel free to rant and not dedicate one ounce of critical thought. The whole thing is dominated by witch hunters and I have been attacked numerous times for daring to address related topics with fairness, justice and logic.

I will explain why it is neither a sickness or a crime. First, it is not a sickness because the only reason it causes mental distress is because of societal intolerance. The only kind of pedophilia I would call a sickness would be where its compulsive and the person just can't help themselves but to molest or rape children practically on sight. But that sort of pedophile is exceedingly rare, pretty much like serial rapists.

Your average run-of-the-mill pedophile, someone who simply prefers pre-pubescents as sex partners, would be perfectly happy if society left them free to date and have sex with who they wanted (as in Polynesian society before the Europeans came, or even American and British societies where the age of consent was ten for hundreds of years). So while some might call their desires sick, it does not mean they are sick. They are no more sick than homosexuals, and it took society and psychology a long time to conclude that homosexuals were not sick, and that delay was simply the product of societal taboo, same as with pedophilia today.

But it has to be said that a pedophile is best defined as someone who PREFERS prepubescents. Just finding yourself attracted to prepubescents does not make one a pedophile, because if that were true, 25 percent to 33 percent of all males would be pedophiles, and the word would lose all meaning.

Next, pedophilia is not a crime because pedophilia is not an act. Only acts can be crimes. Pedophilia is sexual preference, not an act. That is why I use the term "age of consent violation" rather than lump words like pedophilia, statutory rape and rape into one confusing jumble of overlapping concepts. Its just crazy to say that, for example, Mary Kay LeTourneau raped Villi Fualau. She didn't. They had consensual sex and they loved one another. In fact, they are now legally married. Its also crazy to say that Mary Kay is a pedophile. That is for many reasons. First, when they began sexual relations, Villi was not a prepubescent. So there is zero reason to think Mary Kay prefers prepubescents since she is not accused of ever sleeping with one. Next, she never even repeated her "crime" with another person underage, so she is certainly not compulsive in that sense.

Clearly what happened with Mary Kay is that she was in love. But some segments of society don't want to accept that and all others are too weak to speak against it. So Mary Kay gets labeled a pedophile out of hand and zero rational thought behind it.

All that said, I freely admit that Mary Kay is a bit off. I think she is compulsive, but just not toward underage boys. I believe her love is genuine, but allowing herself to get knocked up by a 13 year old, particularly when she has other children to care for, indicates someone without much foresight or self-control. The woman needed mental help for that. Instead, society gave her jail, all because witch hunters have contol of this topic.

So anyway, pedophilia is a sexual preference. A sickness would be compulsive pedophilia marked by a lack of self-control over the urge. A crime would be an age of consent violation, as that would be an act, as much as I think the label of crime is over-blown. Rape is just rape, hardly matters the age of the victim. The term statutory rape is absolute garbage and should be erased from the vernacular. And age of consent violations should be called precisely that, because calling consensual sex between a 15 year old and her 18 year old boyfriend as rape, pedophilia, sexual assault, or statutory rape is grossly and seriously unfair, injust and misleading to the point of me wanting to punch people's lights out.
 

ewww

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To answer the question of whether pedophilia is a sickness or a crime

Huh ... Very interesting statement ... Could You tell if insanity is sickness or not? Alchogolism? Cleptomany?
There is a big set of different disorders, which has very strange determination: "You may not recognize if You are sick or not, only people around could do it". Do You see here something strange? Why I could tell if my head is hurt, and my back is itchy, and I can not tell that I am insane? The answer is simple: these pseudo diceases were introduced by society as reaction on human being different from average society member. In the other words, if You are little different - You are target to be accused in some kind of sickness, candidate for isolation and prosecution. Does not matter which society/world/epoch, each time/social system has it.
 

BrianLewis

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Your right in pointing out that being labeled does not constitute a crime. It will get your life put under a fine toothed comb for being far more likely to commit a crime. The concept behind statutory rape is the general consensus from scientists that the brain is not developed enough to know the consequences of your actions at that age. That's subjective, of course, however I tend to believe that the law is more towards the younger end. Just out of personal experience, I have not met too many developed minds under 25.

I find it preposterous that anyone would consider an early teen to be mentally sound enough for sex with an adult. It's far too likely that such relationships are ones of manipulation. I would question the ego of any adult that needs a relationship of manipulation.
 
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"I find it preposterous that anyone would consider an early teen to be mentally sound enough for sex with an adult. It's far too likely that such relationships are ones of manipulation. I would question the ego of any adult that needs a relationship of manipulation."

Amen. Adults who have sex with children are exploiting them, and they're rapists because children lack the capacity for consent.

Pedophiles who act on their perversion make me want to punch their lights out.
 

Mark of Zorro

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. The concept behind statutory rape is the general consensus from scientists that the brain is not developed enough to know the consequences of your actions at that age.

For starters, no, the concept of statutory rape began in the middle ages and no related legistlation, even modern, is based on any scientific study. Frankly, you just made that up.

Next, how does brain development translate into understanding the consequence of your actions? You cannot induce a baby into a coma, wake him up when he is 25, and expect him to understand the consequences of sticking his finger into a light socket even though his brain has fully developed.

My son is two years old. He understands the consequences of touching a hot stove.

In short, that whole brain development thing is complete red herring. The brain develops yes, but no one knows what effect that has on the decision making process. They only have guesses, and those guesses tend to conform toward agenda.

Further to that, if a child was refused a bicycle on the grounds of safety, how many people would say their parents are over-reacting? Kids ride around on bicycles all the time! Do you think they understand all the consequences, such as being hit by a car? Do you think they understand the dynamics of vehicular traffic well enough to truly be safe? Please! And a bicycle is more dangerous than sex.

How many 16 year olds are driving cars?! They could kill you. You could kill them. But if you loved them and had sex with them, there is some sort of massive danger??

That's subjective, of course, however I tend to believe that the law is more towards the younger end. Just out of personal experience, I have not met too many developed minds under 25.

The age of consent has only risen, and its now well beyond puberty, which is insane and unfair, as sex becomes an imperative after puberty.

I find it preposterous that anyone would consider an early teen to be mentally sound enough for sex with an adult.

So you are saying they are mentally sound enough for sex with eachother? Or are you saying they are raping, traumatizing and manipulating eachother? What do you mean by "mentally sound" anyway? What does it have to do with sex??


It's far too likely that such relationships are ones of manipulation.

Why? Why would you assume that any person's desire for a sexual relationship with a teen is based on manipulation? Do you think the human race is generally bent on manipulation? Do you know of any relationship based on manipulation?

For centuries teens were free to marry and age disparate couples were common. Many of our grandparents and great grandparents were in such a relationship. Now suddenly its wrong and all about manipulation?


I would question the ego of any adult that needs a relationship of manipulation.

So would I. But more than that I question your lack of faith in humanity. I do not believe that most people are out to manipulate the people they are attracted to, at least not maliciously. I do not believe that being minor attracted lends itself to a desire to manipulate maliciously.

In fact, if anything, I would say the tendency would be more toward a desire to protect and care for. But its usually the bad apples that get all the press isn't it? The news is rarely about people in love. So people who read the news tend to think people are evil at heart.
 
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"For starters, no, the concept of statutory rape began in the middle ages and no related legistlation, even modern, is based on any scientific study."

Who cares if they molested children in the Middle Ages? They forced eight-years old to do hard physical labor for 14 hours a day back then too. Ethics, morals, and law have all changed since then.

Children simply lack the maturity to make sexual decisions. Our bodies may have evolved to be sexually mature by age 13, but the average person only lived into his thirties in prehistoric times. Just because the body is ready doesn't mean the mind can make mature decisions in today's world.

Sex has real consequences that can change or end lives -- STDs, pregnancy, and emotional damage are all among them.

Maybe stoning is too harsh, but I'd have no problem seeing pedophiles castrated, if they're more than a few years older than their victims.
 

Mark of Zorro

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"For starters, no, the concept of statutory rape began in the middle ages and no related legistlation, even modern, is based on any scientific study."

Who cares if they molested children in the Middle Ages? They forced eight-years old to do hard physical labor for 14 hours a day back then too. Ethics, morals, and law have all changed since then.

Well, that is some classic foot-in-the-mouth argumentation. I did not say we should copy the middle ages. I said they came up with the age of consent in the middle ages. By your logic that we should reject the middle ages and their thinking, we should have no age of consent! Congratulations!

Ethics, morals, and law have all changed since then.

Human sexual needs have not.

Children simply lack the maturity to make sexual decisions. Our bodies may have evolved to be sexually mature by age 13, but the average person only lived into his thirties in prehistoric times. Just because the body is ready doesn't mean the mind can make mature decisions in today's world.

But they have the maturity to make traffic decisions as they walk to school or ride a bicycle? As I was suggesting to Brian, you seem to think sex is a dangerous thing. Its a wonder humanity survived if so.

Another strange thing about your point here is that you seem to think its harder to get by in today's world than prehistoric times! Therefore, more maturity is required with regards to sex! How completely preposterous! We can prevent pregnancies with drugs and condoms. Most diseases can be cured with a shot. STD testing can be done to ensure partners are disease free. I scarcely understand how more maturity is needed now than in the past.

I also don't see why sex has be such supreme danger. With an attitude like that, its a wonder you would let a 13 year old cross the road by themself.

Sex has real consequences that can change or end lives -- STDs, pregnancy, and emotional damage are all among them.

Well, I already addressed pregnancy and STDs. (And I still don't think they hold a candle to getting run over on a bicycle). But emotional damage? Where do you get this stuff?

Is it illegal for teens to have sex with eachother? No. So what of the emotional damage? Again, you seem to be saying that sex is extremely dangerous. Pah! You want emotional damage? Divorce. Death in the family. Moving away. Paralysis from a cheerleading accident.

For me, sex and sexual things have always been emotionally soothing. From playing doctor when I was a kid to bonking with my girlfriend today.

I wonder if you ever in your life considered the emotional damage of NOT having sex. I experienced plenty of that before I got out of college. It was a very painful time. I am grateful for every childhood and teen sexual experience I had, but I did not have nearly enough. Both my childhood and teen sexual experiences involved adults (though I wanted but did not have actual sex). The only thing that hurt me was have to wait for months and years before the next experience. Surely I am not alone.

If you ask me teens especially are being harmed emotionally by being cut off from the rest of the humanity in this way. I blame this state of affairs for things like smoking, binge drinking and runaways. Used to be a 13 year old could expect to be married soon. Now they are forced into celibacy essentially. Its inhuman cruelty and no wonder teens are viewed as being unstable when they are treated like this.

Maybe stoning is too harsh, but I'd have no problem seeing pedophiles castrated, if they're more than a few years older than their victims.

This sentence is mixed up 8 ways from Sunday. I have to assume that since you said pedophiles and victim, that you mean the younger party is twelve at the outside, since that is about average for puberty. A few years older would be 15. So you would not only call a 15 year old with a 12 year old partner a pedophile, you would have them castrated?

You also assume the younger party is upset or harmed and is a victim out of hand. And further you don't seem to realize that most age of consent violations are not committed by pedophiles.

Like BrianLewis, your viewpoints are based on unfounded assumptions that are very negative about sex and that have been feed to you by a sex negative society. Your viewpoints are contradictary and you don't seem to have examined anything in much depth at all. Yet it seems you have firmly made up your mind despite those horrible failings.

I had a couple friends, one girl of 14 and a man of 20. They fell in love. Their relationship was approved by her father, a man who is very strict and very protective of his children. Last I heard, they got married. I ask you, would you have my friend castrated?

---------- Post added at 02:37 ---------- Previous post was at 02:11 ----------

Amen. Adults who have sex with children are exploiting them, and they're rapists because children lack the capacity for consent.

Can a child consent to surgery? Can a child consent to eating mashed pototoes? Either could be life threatening. I find it strange where capacity to consent is touted as the end-all-be-all argument for sex issues, but completely ignored for pretty much all other issues.

I was a child once. I consented to a lot of things. I knew who I liked and who I didn't. I was very interested in sex and I knew who I would like to have sex with and who I wouldn't. I did not lack capacity. I lacked experience and knowledge. You don't gain either for doing nothing.

My view of your philosophy is that you first enforce ignorance. Then you say they can't consent because they are ignorant. Its extremely backward thinking.

I also don't like that you would call someone a rapist and exploiter just because of age even though they may well be kind and caring and generous to their sex partner, and would not dream of harming or tricking them. Rape has a real and serious meaning, and you dilute it with ideas like that.

It is preposterous to decide such issues on age alone at the expense of a million other details, including and especially the sentiments of the child or teen in question.

Pedophiles who act on their perversion make me want to punch their lights out.

They said the same of gays 50 years ago.

The only real perversion is asexuality.
 

Orochimaru

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Are you a pedophile, Zorro? You don't seem to see anything wrong with pedophilia, so that shouldn't be an insulting question. Just wondering.

---------- Post added at 12:47 ---------- Previous post was at 12:42 ----------

The only real perversion is asexuality.
Well, that's tolerant of you...
 

Mark of Zorro

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Are you a pedophile, Zorro? You don't seem to see anything wrong with pedophilia, so that shouldn't be an insulting question. Just wondering.

Are you a pedophile? After all, after all I have said, you have not said anything against.


Well, that's tolerant of you...

The statement has nothing to do with tolerance. I said asexuality was a perversion, not that it should be illegal to practice, frowned upon or worth of ostracization from society. Asexuals are free to be asexuals and I am fine with that. I only begin to have a problem if they try to force their asexuality on others, or promote asexuality to others with half-baked argumentation.
 

Orochimaru

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Ordinarily I wouldn't ask personal questions about people's sexuality, but you volunteered quite a bit about yours already.

And while it's true that you you didn't say asexuality should be illegal, when you refer to it as a "perversion" that rather strongly implies you frown upon it, doesn't it? Also, I haven't heard of many, if any, cases of people trying to force asexuality on anyone.

---------- Post added at 14:11 ---------- Previous post was at 13:39 ----------

Are you a pedophile? After all, after all I have said, you have not said anything against.




The statement has nothing to do with tolerance. I said asexuality was a perversion, not that it should be illegal to practice, frowned upon or worth of ostracization from society. Asexuals are free to be asexuals and I am fine with that. I only begin to have a problem if they try to force their asexuality on others, or promote asexuality to others with half-baked argumentation.

This is what I get for not quoting before I post. Zorro added the question about me being a pedophile after I responded to him the first time. No, I'm not.

He also said originally "No, I am not a pedophile according to any rational and fair definition. But some would call me a pedophile for saying that Jeon Bo-Ram from the "guess her age" thread is hot,", and something to the effect that I shouldn't have asked him about it. I'll definitely remember to quote from now on...
 

Mark of Zorro

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Thanks a whole lot for quoting me on what I wanted to remove.

Not that I am one little bit ashamed of any attractions I have, but I seriously do not want to get into this sideshow of who is and who is not a witch...I mean communist...um...pedophile. It does not serve the discussion. Nor did I want to annoy you or give credence to a question you should not have asked.

And you claim to not be a pedophile while still not speaking against anything I said. Perhaps me pointing that out will help you understand why such a question kills the chances of a fair conversation.

Now, would you care to discuss the topic rationally? You are free to ask more details about what personal stuff I have mentioned, but please cease trying to slap a label on me.

And while it's true that you you didn't say asexuality should be illegal, when you refer to it as a "perversion" that rather strongly implies you frown upon it, doesn't it?

I do frown upon it and I speak against it a lot. But tolerance does not mean you accept every idea that comes along.


Also, I haven't heard of many, if any, cases of people trying to force asexuality on anyone.

I have. Its called celibacy, even if its only temporary. High ages of consent are a method of enforcing celibacy and asexuality and worse, sex negativity. Creating a high age of consent effectively means that celibacy is being forced on youth in their most formative years, even after their hormones peak. And that mean that time will have an effect on their sexuality for the rest of their lives. I cannot be tolerant of that.

And its not only the law doing it. Consider how the actor Doug Hutchison was labeled a pervert and pedophile for marrying 16 year old Courtney Stodden. 70 years ago I doubt the marriage would have raised an eyebrow.

Edit: I need to clarify the bit about tolerance. The intolerant deserve none. I am not a hypocrite for being intolerant of intolerance, and only a very simple mind would think I was.

Celibacy advocates are the ones who are intolerant. I am not about to trick, coerce or cajole anyone into having sex. I do point out possible negative outcomes of the sexless lifestyle though. But celibacy advocates, especially those for teen celibacy, so often cross the line of pointing out possible negatives and instead fear monger about how dangerous sex is when it isn't, especially in this day and age. They do trick, coerce and cajole teens into stunting their sexual growth with abstinence. They even spread false information. Even worse, they are partly behind the age of consent being way higher than it was ever originally intended or is beneficial. I think of unwed teen mothers when I say that. Nobody is saying the problem is getting better are they? Yet they stick with the source: an age of consent that is too high and leads to ignorance and desperation and bad choices which leads to unwanted teen pregnancy and motherhood.

Edit 2: While I did not say asexuality should be frowned upon before, the term is not exactly concrete. I do frown upon the desire to spread that lifestyle. However I do not frown upon people living the lifestyle by their own informed choice. So long as no one is forced into sex, those naturally asexual will never do it will they? So no need to go promoting it.
 
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Child abusers always have some kind of rationalization for their actions. I don't have the slightest interest in hearing any of it, or anything from those who defend them.
 

Mark of Zorro

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Child abusers always have some kind of rationalization for their actions. I don't have the slightest interest in hearing any of it, or anything from those who defend them.

I never said one word in defense of child abuse. If not for your insistence on being deaf, you might have realized that.

Child abusers be damned. I make no defense of abuse, whether its abuse of children or adults, sexual or violent. Lock them all up for life if you like, just don't set people up for a fall.

When I was a child I had sexual experiences with other children, teens and adults. It made little difference to me their age. But no one abused me. Not one. I regret none of it. I only regret that those experiences were few and far between. Oh, well, no sense talking to you with your fingers in your ears. I will just have club you over the head if you ever interfere in my son's sexual freedom, because I can picture you and people who think like you breaking up a relationship he may have with an older woman when he is teen.
 

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I find myself liking girls who are teenage.
There like around 16 years old.
I seen them like hanging around the mall.
There is this group of Asian girls who are always playing the dancing game in the arcade.
I see that as not being pedo but i do know someone born in 84 should not speak to someone born in 96 so i don't i just sit there and watch.


The whole thing is about what age the person is.

pedo is pre-puberty.

As long as your not going after someone pre-puberty its not pedo.
 

Mark of Zorro

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I see that as not being pedo but i do know someone born in 84 should not speak to someone born in 96 so i don't i just sit there and watch.

This is what I meant by setting a person up for a fall. Wracked with frustration, I can see casiocasio getting himself into trouble and making bad choices he otherwise would not have made.

I am sorry to see him actually believing that society is correct in making him feel he cannot even talk with those girls. Nor will he take the risk of helping them if they are in distress lest be accused of something.

Nothing is served by this but the satisfaction of oppressive people acting on ape emotions.
 

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Nor will he take the risk of helping them if they are in distress lest be accused of something..

Oh... don't worry if i saw a girl being mugged or EXT i would help.

Its better to risk going to jail by doing the right thing then not going to jail by doing the wrong thing.
 

BrianLewis

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I can't agree that sex is an imperative. Perhaps a strong desire, but never something that is impossible to disregard.

Skull plates don't fully fuse on an average individual until around 26. What's that mean medically? It means their heads are still expanding, and the brain is still developing. Medically, the brain is not considered fully developed until about 25. The fact is, they are still children, if not physically, mentally.
 
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"I will just have club you over the head if you ever interfere in my son's sexual freedom, because I can picture you and people who think like you breaking up a relationship he may have with an older woman when he is teen."

Then the law will take care of you too.

If not the sexual abuse from adults, there must be something in your past causing you to make all these violent threats.
 

Mark of Zorro

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I can't agree that sex is an imperative. Perhaps a strong desire, but never something that is impossible to disregard.

There are penalties for disregarding natural urges, such as stress. I would say that doing without sex during times of peak desire is stressful. Are you one of those people who take work stress with all serious, but think sexual stress is something insignificant or a mere personal problem?

Skull plates don't fully fuse on an average individual until around 26. What's that mean medically? It means their heads are still expanding, and the brain is still developing. Medically, the brain is not considered fully developed until about 25. The fact is, they are still children, if not physically, mentally.

You have expressed an opinion and based it on something that is not proof of anything and not even related to the opinion you stated. Plus there is no clear definition of child based on mental attributes. If there were, you would be against age of consent at least in part, as it does not take into account those who matured faster and those who matured slower.

Worse, it seems you want to push the AOC to 25. There are so many things wrong with that I don't even want to get into it. I don't think I need to.

---------- Post added at 12:09 ---------- Previous post was at 11:57 ----------

If not the sexual abuse from adults, there must be something in your past causing you to make all these violent threats.

How many times do I have to tell you I was not sexually abused? Not by adults and not by my peers. As if it makes any sense at all to suggest that what I did with a teen girl my own age was just fine, but the same thing with a woman of 20 constitutes sexual abuse and I should be traumatized or something.

This is just another fine example of how some opinions are so absurd they are hard to refute clearly and become common belief.

And I wonder, if you were the soldier of a king telling me how and why you will take away the political freedom of me and my family, such as no doubt happened in the American colonies, and I make angry statements in retort, would you question my upbringing???

Sexual freedom is under attack. Its always been under attack in some form. From adultery, to homosexuality, to oral sex, to masturbation, to inter-racial sex, to sex between teens and adults today. Its really all the same. Its a shred of truth hyped into a mountain of nonsense and unnecessary curbs on freedom. Some people just cannot seem to get by without knowing someone is being oppressed somehow. And it makes me angry.
 

Orochimaru

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I have. Its called celibacy, even if its only temporary. High ages of consent are a method of enforcing celibacy and asexuality and worse, sex negativity. Creating a high age of consent effectively means that celibacy is being forced on youth in their most formative years, even after their hormones peak. And that mean that time will have an effect on their sexuality for the rest of their lives. I cannot be tolerant of that.

And its not only the law doing it. Consider how the actor Doug Hutchison was labeled a pervert and pedophile for marrying 16 year old Courtney Stodden. 70 years ago I doubt the marriage would have raised an eyebrow.

Edit: I need to clarify the bit about tolerance. The intolerant deserve none. I am not a hypocrite for being intolerant of intolerance, and only a very simple mind would think I was.

Celibacy advocates are the ones who are intolerant. I am not about to trick, coerce or cajole anyone into having sex. I do point out possible negative outcomes of the sexless lifestyle though. But celibacy advocates, especially those for teen celibacy, so often cross the line of pointing out possible negatives and instead fear monger about how dangerous sex is when it isn't, especially in this day and age. They do trick, coerce and cajole teens into stunting their sexual growth with abstinence. They even spread false information. Even worse, they are partly behind the age of consent being way higher than it was ever originally intended or is beneficial. I think of unwed teen mothers when I say that. Nobody is saying the problem is getting better are they? Yet they stick with the source: an age of consent that is too high and leads to ignorance and desperation and bad choices which leads to unwanted teen pregnancy and motherhood.

Edit 2: While I did not say asexuality should be frowned upon before, the term is not exactly concrete. I do frown upon the desire to spread that lifestyle. However I do not frown upon people living the lifestyle by their own informed choice. So long as no one is forced into sex, those naturally asexual will never do it will they? So no need to go promoting it.

Clearly you have no idea what the word asexual means. Asexuality has nothing to do with intolerance, and few, if any, celibacy advocates try to make people asexual.
 

Mark of Zorro

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Clearly you have no idea what the word asexual means. Asexuality has nothing to do with intolerance, and few, if any, celibacy advocates try to make people asexual.

Celibacy begets asexuality. Promoting one is promoting the other. You lose ability and desire for not acting, maybe not completely, but you do. I had direct experience with this several years ago and it took time and effort to get my libido back. I am sure that everyone experiences the negative effects of celibacy differently, with some becoming permanently asexual. They say "use it or lose it". Even doctors say this. Its true.

And my personal experience a few years ago really opened my eyes to what happened to me in my teen years. Yeah, I know its the typical gaijin story, but I got here to Japan, and suddenly women wanted to sleep with me. I had to work hard to perform decently. I had trouble with premature ejaculation and getting an erection. Fortunately I had plenty of motivation. I did not think much of it at the time. Now I know that society just plain screwed me up, and I had to undo what it had done. The celibacy of my teen years was not wanted.

Even today, I have to admit that my sexual response is anything but natural. Even so, my girlfriend is extremely satisfied with all aspects of our lovemaking, but I have not forgotten the mountains I was forced to climb. I do not want that for my son. Despite these damned laws, I can totally see myself helping him hook up with older women, like the ones I wanted when I was a child and teen, and some of whom seemed to also be interested in me back but did not act for obvious reasons.

If one is naturally asexual, then celibacy is fine. If one is not, then celibacy is an ignorant path in this age of condoms and access to penicillin. But heck, all the sex I have had and dozens of partners now...not one STD. Not ONE! Why? Because I always wrote flaky women off the list as much as possible. I slept with a few, but I learned from those mistakes for sure.

And like I keep saying; you can't learn from nothing.
 

Mark of Zorro

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My presentation may be lacking in many ways, so here are some links to show I am not just talking randomly.

This one touches on the similarity between getting the psychological field to properly evaluate homosexuality and the same with regard to what is too broadly termed "pedophilia". Is Pedophilia a Mental Disorder?

This one talks about sexual freedom and sexual development: Sex-Positivity and Sexualization |Charlie Glickman

And we don’t actually know what “age-appropriate” means when talking about sex education, both because different children develop at different rates and because simply asking the question of what childhood sexual development looks like means risking being labeled a pedophile.

The main one I wanted to post a video from Dr. Laura Berman about the female orgasm. She explains the point about "use or lose it" and explains that the sooner a female starts learning to orgasm the greater the odds she will be able to do so and keep doing so later in life. Trying to teach a female to orgasm only gets harder as she gets older. No idea why I cannot find that video anywhere, but I bet some certain forces did not like the logical conclusions we can draw from that. Some people are truly pleased with themselves that so many woman cannot orgasm and as a result are not all that interested in sex.

Basically the female orgasm was stolen when girls were teens and only allowed to sleep with teen males who had no friggen idea what they were doing, which means so many girls just put it off. Of course there other reasons for delayed sexual experience, most as poor as the last. One of the most annoying is of course that the guy they like tends to be older but won't touch them for fear of being labeled a pedo.

It is easy to find information about Berman's suggestion that young teens girls be taught to use dildos, a suggestion that garnered the usual sex-negative responses from neo-victorian puritans for whom sex is nothing but shame. I assume Berman was again explaining the "use it or lose it" concept as well as trying to get females to learn to orgasm from vaginal intercourse rather than fingers so as to actually have mutually pleasurable sex one day rather than just masturbating with someone else's body.

Here is link, though I have not even read it myself. http://www.parentdish.com/2009/04/14/oprah-sexpert-buy-your-teen-daughter-her-first-vibrator/

Anyway, a lot of this may seem like tangents, but they aren't. If you don't look at a topic like this holistically you won't see the forest for the trees. You can only see what Mother Nature has decreed with regards to what children and teens should be doing by looking at it all, including how they wind up as adults. And once you get that straight you can see that adults taking an interest in children and teens is not at all against Mother Nature's plan or inherently bad.

That said, I fully appreciate that just rolling with Mother Nature's plan would reduce us to animals. But its smarter to work WITH Mother Nature instead of AGAINST her as we are doing most of the time. Seems to me most people wind up sexually stunted and its just not productive. And sadly, most people don't even realize how sexually stunted they are and instead insist nothing change.
 
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