Is pedophilia a sickness or a crime?

But physical features (secondary sex carachters) lack. The body lacks of features related with the gender/sex, which means that the child is not masculine, nor is feminine. He/she is neutral.

Before puberty, ther is not a great difference between females and males in respect to physical features.

Between a little boy and a man there is a greater difference than between prepubescent boys and girls.

So, a pedophile is first of all attracted to neutrality.

Pedophilia is to definiition an attraction towards prepubescent children. "Prepubescent" means that secondary sex carachters still lack.

So pedohpilia is an attraction to a body without sexual carachters.

It is sad to note that this poster posted only one post six months ago. This is someone I would really like to debate with as he/she is really thinking about the topic.

But, I have to disagree with the point about secondary sexual characteristics being so important with regards to attraction. I don't think they are very important at all.

The most obvious secondary sex characteristic in females are breasts. But not all females have them, or much of them, and not all males care that much. I have heard many men state that they are "all about the butt", and they don't care about breasts. And it makes perfect biological sense. I don't know any other animal that cares about breasts, and generally the males are "all about the butt". For most mammal males, the butt is the only focus.

For many reasons, I cannot agree that children are neutral or near neutral in gender. No. They are extremely feminine in fact and have a long list of characteristics that are considered ideals of feminine beauty. They are short and otherwise tend to be petite, have smooth skin, lack facial or body hair, tend to have slender waists and not to be fat. Have good muscle tone with fat over top that is firm (baby fat we call it). They have high pitched voices. They have a higher body temperature. You can also throw in naivete and even being virginal or even just state that they are young.

All those are ideals of feminine beauty, and children of both sexes have them in abundance. Some people though will refuse to see or accept all that due to social conditioning. They will also over-emphasize the importance of breasts.

On another forum I insisted that men who are attracted to boys (pederasts) are gay and can only be gay. But in a round-about way, other posters convinced me that they are not all gay and there was no evidence to support that contention. It was hard to wrap my head around that, but if you accept the fact that children of both sexes have a multitude of characteristics considered to be female sexual attraction characteristics, it all becomes very clear. Most people found to have had sexual relationships with children (whether legally or criminally) are men, and the pederasts so often don't have any history of sexual behavior with other men.

The only way that all makes sense to me is to say that children are basically feminine in appearance and vice-versa, women are more child-like in appearance. That is further evidenced in that its usually women who are called "baby" or "girl" while men are usually called "guys" and not "boys". Women may say they need to go to the "little girl's room" but men never say they need to go to the "little boy's room". In Japan, a large number of women's names end with "ko" meaning child. There are so many examples like this proving that even if its not consciously admitted, subconconsciously we are well aware of the relationship between female ideals of beauty and childhood.

But society is in denial, especially North American society.

---------- Post added at 12:31 ---------- Previous post was at 12:11 ----------

Female body shape - Wikipedia

There are four generalized female body shapes; banana, apple, pear and hourglass. Approx. 46 percent of all adult females have the banana shape, which is the same shape as any child.
 
(tried posting this on another form-but I kept getting an error notification and then my web-page kicked me out. Could be my internet--most likely as I am 100% certain a deamon inhabits it-- or I unintentionally posted 5 repeated posts.) Either way- it relates...
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On to the controversial topic:
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Should teenagers be considered as having the same intellectual capacity as adults? Whom are we kidding? ツ"Kidding,ツ" an ironic word given this topic. We certainly are not ツ"kiddingツ" our youth, not if we are treating them as adults. And we are not ツ"kiddingツ" ourselves, since there is nothing funny about subjecting teenagers to the death penalty or causing them to accept full financial and civil responsibility for the consequences of ツ"consensualツ" sex, that in many jurisdictions, we label statutory rape.

The fact is, I find many assumptions to be flawed -- Consent laws are not just about sex. Nor is there a national consensus that exists concerning adolescent capacity to consent to sex. The laws gives differing legal significance to adolescent ツ"consentツ" to teen-adult sex depending upon a variety of factors.

The arguments presented can be summarized as: Is consent being able to make a rational choice...being aware of all the consequences? How is it that a 15-year-old cannot make a rational choice, but yet a 25-year-old is automatically assumed to be able to? Are the age of consent laws are biased and do not take into account the individual's ability to make choices, and assumes that anyone under the legal age is incapable of making a rational decision?

As adults we are ツ'supposedly' charged with looking through a lens made wider by experience and anticipate consequences that often show themselves only after the passage of time. It then is no surprise when some women & men, years later are able to reflect and recognize the subtle and explicit consequences that they were unable to consider when they were much younger. In this sense, sometimes this leads one to understand that aspects of their own history, sometimes traumatic, had caused them to have been less ''consenting" than they imagined. To speak of ''consent" under these circumstances is at best naive.

When I went back to study in the UK there was a controversial man named Tom Martin, who considers himself a leading UK Men's Right Activist. This bloke had the audacity to imply that TEN-year-old children who were trafficked into the sex industry and engaged in prostitution ツ"were not really victims, but economic actors making an economic choiceツ". He continued that the legal principle of no arbitrary minimum age for consent requires whether lawful sex had taken place was to establish if the child or young person ツ'understands the meaning of consent'. In another comment, Martin suggests that ten-year-olds who have been the victims of what some people insist on calling ツ"real rapeツ" would be offended by anyone thinking that ten-year-old prostitutes suffer from rape – when, after all, the child prostitutes have ツ"agreedツ" to it. However, Martin doesn't actually think ten-year-olds should be prostitutes. On-the-contrary- rather he is deluded enough to think(s) they should wait a few years, until they're at least 14.
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The best way to understand this discussion is in the context of the scientific field and to specifically consider the area of neuroscience. Neuroscience has made great strides over the past decades in revealing that remarkable changes occur in the brain during the second decade of life. Contrary to long held ideas that the brain--the most complicated 3 lb mass of matter in the known inverse--was mostly grown-up by the end of childhood, it is now clear that adolescence is a time of profound brain growth and change. In fact, the brain of an early adolescent in comparison to that of a late adolescent differs measurably in anatomy, biochemistry and physiology.

Why does this matter? It matters because impulse control, planning and decision-making are largely frontal cortex functions that are still maturing during adolescence. Why does this relate to the ツ"consent of ageツ" debate? It relates BECAUSE- the large and compelling body of scientific research on the neurological development of teens confirms that long held, common sense view that: teenagers are not the same as adults in a variety of key areas such as the ability to make sound judgments when confronted by complex impulses, and the ability to plan effectively.

Indeed teens can be full of promise, mature for their age (and perhaps even gone through sexual maturity more quickly then their peers) and able to make remarkable spurts in intellectual development and learning.

NONETHELESS- neurologically speaking, they are NOT adults. They are, as we say in the proper sense, a work in progress and do not reach neurological maturity until their early 20s (both applies to men and female-no exceptions).

In sum or to repeat again- (I think Americans call it ツ"to sound like a ツ"broken-recordツ"??) during adolescents, a teen is developing and is unable to accurately understand impulse control, planning for the future, appreciating cause and effect, and decision making. These are important skills that rely on numerous interconnecting cognitive components that emerge as the brain develops during adolescents.
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STUDIES:
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In 1999, Neuropsychologist Dr. Deborah Yurgelun-Todd studied the responses of adults and children (in theie early teens years and late), to the pictures of faces exhibiting emotions, including fear. In response to the fear face, adults correctly identified the emotion. Teens answered correctly only about fifty percent of the time, identifying the emotion as shock, surprise, or anger. Teens also used different parts of their brains to evaluate the face and process their own emotions during the test. While adult responses came from the frontal cortex, teen responses originated in the amygdale. *

Consequently, this research shows that teens' use of the amygdale produced reactions rather than rational thought. It can be concluded that immature teen brains produce impulsive and even ツ"risk-taking behavior.ツ"

Yurgelun-Todd study suggests that perhaps decision-making in teenagers is not what we thought . . . . Just because they're physically mature, they may not appreciate the consequences or weigh information the same way as adults do.

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Finally, this is why I find it ridiculous when people assume that if teenagers LOOK physically mature they then should BE more emotionally and mentally mature.
A person cannot help his or her immaturity. Immaturity is a natural stage of teen development. We do not condemn the mentally challenged for their failure to comprehend. Similarly, we should not blame the immature for their failure to act maturely.
For these reasons, I argue against any countries judicial evaluation of the teen's ツ"consentツ" to lower the age, which may invite further abuse and trauma. In fact, I argue for some countries (such as Japan and even Korea) to reconsider raising the consent age.​

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RELATE THIS TO JAPAN[/B] (because otherwise this whole discussion doesn't make sense to post on a Japanese Reference website):
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As a Japanese citizen, there are many things that I am proud of (such as our low crime rate) but I am horrified at my government's inability to address our crisis of sexual exploitation and abuse of minors. Japanese law allows for consent at age 12, but this only applies to metro Tokyo. Japan's federal laws put sexual consent at 13 years old under the Japanese national criminal law code. However, all municipalities and prefectures have their own particular laws such as Tokyo's ツ"Youth Protection Lawツ" which prohibit adults from having sex with youths who are under 17 years old or 18.

This incomprehensible gap of the legal ツ"consent of ageツ" has lead to much confusion. For example, it means that窶ー窶。ツ鞘?「ナ津ーツ催 (ツ"compensated datingツ" where high-school aged girls are paid be older men to ツ"dateツ" or otherwise render sexual service) can be or cannot be charged with statutory rape (in that it depends on jurisdiction). And since this Asia, lets consider Korea, in which the age of consent is different for men and women. A book entitled Gyoyanginul Ouihan Saegyaesa (교양인을 위한 세계사), or World History for Civilized People by Kim Yun-tae: states that in Korea the age of consent is 18 for men, and 16 for women.

Let me make a point by saying that the idea of an age of legal consent is almost certainly modern. Japanese rewrote many of the legal codes based on European, primarily Germanic law.

Regardless, empirical Japanese studies of childhood sexual abuse are rare. The few studies that do exist are mostly case studies involving low numbers of respondents. These are usually highly subjective, mostly legal or psychiatric in orientation and cannot be generalized to the Japanese population. In Japan this topic is often avoided as unpleasant; consequently, it is not discussed in conversation and not investigated in research.

However, I believe this subject is a compelling social problem that merits the attention of social scientists.
While Japan's sexual abuse may be roughly lower, compared with the USA and even Germany, Japan nonetheless as a significant distortion of social perceptions by victims of sexual abuse, and even victims of exhibitionism.


End of post​
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Resources:
----Not sure of others Japanese comprehension, but if you can read Japanese then refer to a mainstream scandal involving AKB48, Minami Takahashi 44 year old mother. The mother, divorced was arrested and fined 500,000 yen for having relations several times with a 15 year-old boy.---

AKB48ツ坂?壺?ケ'窶堙昶?堙遺?堙昶?堙娯?「テェツ親窶堋ェツ、15ツ催篠渉ュ窶扼窶堙??コツ行窶覇窶ケ^窶堙??佚溪?「テ Iツ「窶昶?披?堙ァ窶堙ェ窶堙?絶?昶?ーテア窶堙「窶堙≫?堋ス
7窶愿コツ、9窶愿コ窶堙俄?敖ュ窶昶?樞?能窶凖ィ窶堙個「ツ週ナ?ツァ窶「ツカツ春 2ナ椎ス16窶愿コツ坂??ツ」窶堋ェツ「AKB48窶堙個坂?壺?ケ'窶堙昶?堙遺?堙昶?堙娯?「テェツ親窶堋ェヒ?コツ行窶覇窶ケ^窶堙 窶佚溪?「テ淞」窶堙遺?堙ゥニ湛ニ誰ツーニ致窶堙ー窶「テア窶堋カ窶堙ゥ窶堋ア窶堙??堋ェ窶敖サ窶督セツ、ニ値ニ鍛ニ暖ツ湘」窶堙??堙坂?堋キ窶堙??堙俄?佚・窶堋ォ窶堙依彙窶佚ィ 窶堙ー窶堙ヲ窶堙ア窶堙??堋「窶堙ゥツ。
窶慊ッ窶ケLナス窶凪?堙??堙債、窶冢ナ陳ウ窶堙個渉ュ窶扼ニ丹ニ停?ケツーニ致窶堙?ツ人窶堋ゥ窶堙ァ窶「ツキ窶堋「窶堋スヒ彙窶堙??堋オ窶堙?、ツ坂?壺?ケ'窶堙昶?堙遺?堙昶?堙娯?「テェツ親窶堋ェツ、ニ停?榿停?愴鱈ツーツ渉ュ窶扼A窶堙??テ滅淡窶堙ーナスツ昶?堙≫?堋スナ弛ヒ?懌?堙俄?堙や?堋「窶堙?湘堋催冷?堋ェ窶凖披?堙ァ窶堙ェ窶堙??堋「窶堙ゥ Bツ坂?壺?ケ'窶堙昶?堙遺?堙昶?堙娯?「テェツ親窶堙債、ナ竹窶拿ナ?E窶愿シ窶堙ィ窶堋オ窶堋ス窶督コ窶堙ーツ鞘?「窶堋ッ窶堙??ーナセ窶ー窶。窶堋キ窶堙ゥヒ?ェ窶「テサツ、窶伉ァナスq窶堙ー窶廴ヒ?、窶堋キ 窶堙ゥヒ?ェ窶禿岩?堙?窶堋?窶堙ィツ、ツ坂?壺?ケ'窶堙昶?堙遺?堙昶?堙娯?凖ュ窶堙?親窶堋オ窶堋ゥ窶堙≫?堋スツ渉ュ窶扼A窶堙債、窶凖ュ窶堙??堙固?テ滅淡窶堙ーツ鞘?壺?堙俄?「テェツ親窶堙問?昶?披?堙≫?堋ス窶堙 ツウ窶堙ェツ、窶「テェツ親窶堙坂?伉ァナスq窶ーテね?、窶堋ウ窶堙娯?堋?窶堙懌?堙ィ窶堙俄?冉窶堙ゥ窶堋ア窶堙??堋ェ窶堙??堋ォ窶堋クツ、ツ絶?昶?ーテア窶堙俄?從窶堙≫?堙?渉ュ窶扼A窶堙??テ滅淡窶堙ーナスツ昶?堙≫?堋ス テ??堋「窶堋、ツ。
窶堋サ窶堙娯?禿ョツ静ヲツ、ヒ?ェ窶「窶敞陳?断ニ達ニ但窶堋ェ窶愬停?ケナセ窶徭ツ静つ渉ュ窶扼ナ停?吮?牢ヒ?ァツ青ャツ湘ー窶氾。ヒ?。 窶敖ス窶覇窶ケ^窶堙俄?堙ヲ窶堙ィ窶「テェツ親窶堋ェ窶佚溪?「テ溪?堋ウ窶堙ェ窶堋ス窶堙??「テア窶堋カ窶堋スツ。
窶慊ッ窶「テア窶慊ケ窶堙??堙債「AKB48ニ陳?停?愴弛ツー窶堙娯?「テェツ」窶堙??堋オ窶堙??堋ィ窶堙ィツ、ツ坂?壺?ケ'窶「テェ窶堙娯?督シ窶楼窶堋ア窶堋サ窶堙遺?堋「窶堙?窶堙娯?堙個、ツ週ナ?ツァ 窶「ツカツ春窶堙娯?「テア窶堋ゥ窶堙ァ窶慊ッヒ?ェツ人窶「ツィ窶堙??堋?窶堙ゥ窶ーテや?拿ツ青ォ窶堙坂?ケテ俄?堙溪?堙?坂?壺?堋ュツ、窶堋キ窶堙??堙俄?板ェナスツョ窶ケN窶亙窶堋ウ 窶堙ェツ、50窶毒凪?ー~窶堙娯?敖ア窶ケテ?ナ炭窶堋ェナ?m窶凖ィ窶堋オ窶堙??堋「窶堙ゥ窶堙ヲ窶堋、窶堋セ窶堋ェツ、ニ値ニ鍛ニ暖ナ断ナスツヲ窶敕や?堙坂?ーナ?ツ湘」ツ湘ウ窶佚披?堙可。 ツ「AKB48窶堙??堙債坂?壺?ケ'窶堙昶?堙遺?堙昶?堙娯?堋ア窶堙??堙??堋?窶堙ゥツ」ツ。ツ秋ナ陳ウツ康窶堙俄?堋ア窶堋、 ツセ窶堙ュ窶堋オ窶堙淞、ニ丹ニ停?ケツーニ致窶牢窶佚娯?堙ーナステヲ窶堙ィ窶堙懌?堙??堙溪?堙ゥ窶敕楪鞘?披?堙個静凪?戮ナ?'窶堙娯?ケツュ窶堋ウ窶堙ーツ考窶堋ヲ窶堙ゥ窶堙?、ツ債。ナ津」窶堙固?ヒ??慊ョ窶堙俄?佚・窶堋ォ窶堙遺?ーe 窶ケツソ窶堙ー窶ケy窶堙壺?堋キ窶堋ア窶堙??堙坂?「Kナスナ?窶堋ゥツ。
AKB48ツケテ「ツカツカツ、テ淞、テ環、テ淞、テ偲甘ャツソテ?づ。テ甘。ツ。ツ「ツ・テ債・テδ・テ按、テ渉アテェツセテ・ツセテオテづ鳴、テ?ツ・テ按・テ板・テδ・ツッツ・テ仰・テ・ツ。ツシツ・ツケ) - ツケテアテ?「 - livedoor ツ・テ仰・テ・ツ。ツシツ・ツケ

Peer-review journals:
*www.icn.ucl.ac.uk/sblakemore/SJ_papers/BlaCho_jcpp_06.pdf
*National Center for Biotechnology Information › Journal List › NIHPA Author Manuscripts
Other sources cited:

*CHILD ADOLESCENT PSYCHIATRY 195, 198 (1999); Interview: Deborah Yurgelun-Todd, supra note 53 (Dr. Preuss commented here that adults presumably use both the amygdala and the frontal cortex. He explained that the ツ"amygdala is activated in studies of adult emotion recognition, especially fear.ツ").
*Brief for the Petitioner, Roper v. Simmons, U.S. (2004) No. 03-633, 2004 WL 903158, at *33-34 (ツ"There is certainly a point at which age is an appropriate proxy
for determining whether imposing capital punishment on an individual makes sense, even without legislation. In the common law, it was age seven. . . . . Under the consensus recognized in Thompson and Stanford, it is sixteen.ツ")[/LEFT]
 
As a Japanese citizen, there are many things that I am proud of (such as our low crime rate) but I am horrified at my government's inability to address our crisis of sexual exploitation and abuse of minors.

Its pretty damned odd how you shifted from claiming there was a crisis, to talking about the AOC. If you are going to claim there is some sort of crisis, you better first prove that crisis exists. Frankly, I think you have been bamboozled by tabloid journalism. There is no crisis. Even those relatively few girls who engage in enjou kousai just move on with their lives later. Its not such a big deal except for a few bad cases.

The rest of your post is filled with a lot of weasel words and phrases like "sound judgment", "impulse control" and "still maturing". Its all stilted to reap the desired reaction in your readers. But who is it that decides what is a lack of sound judgment and impulse control? Shoe gazing scientists who never take risks and over-protective parents who bite their nails? If they all had their way parachuting and bungee jumping would be illegal among many other things, and life would be one big soup of boredom. Fact is, no one can really say for sure what exactly brain development means to anything. No one can say for sure if what you call "maturing" of the frontal cortex is actually completely insignificant to any and all thought processes. It sure did not stop the teenage Alexander the Great from carving out a vast empire!

It could just as well be that the failure of society to teach young people anything about the real world until we boot them into the semi-real world called "college" is the real culprit that explains why teens don't make the same decisions more experienced adults do.

I challenge you to name three school subjects that really helped prepare you for life in the real world. Hint: it was not algebra or gym class. I look back on my school years and mostly see a fat waste of my time. But thanks to my family I was not such a nitwit as so many other teens.

But hey, if you want to hang on to the belief that teens make poor decisions left to their own devices, that is fine. I can work with that. If we go with that assumption, then the greatest degree of lack of consent due to shallow realization of consequences occurs between two people below the age of consent. This holds true because if its between a teen and an adult, at least we can expect the adult to have the experience and wisdom to forsee and avert those consequences. If you refute that logic you are just in denial for the sake of agenda.

Next, if we hold to the assumption of poor teen decision making, then there is a really easy solution. Its called parental consent. If both the child or teen AND the parents agree to sexual activity with a third party, then there should be no problem, at least no more than what anyone else has.

But you know, I think what you are doing here is unfairly shifting the expectation of foresight from adults and onto teens and children. If an adult got an STD, I believe you would just claim that adult was stupid or unlucky. But if it was a teen you would say they did not know any better, couldn't know any better. Fact is, hindsight is always 20/20. Nobody knows for sure if the person they sleep with next will have an STD or get them pregnant or whatever. Adults do not have crystal balls. All adults really did was slow down and that is about it. I hesitate to call "slowing down" as impulse control or better reasoning skills. I mean, I admit slowing down comes with advantages. But its also not a hell of a lot of fun. And its not really like adults slowed down on purpose, any more than adult cows decided it was undignified to buck and kick like a calf.

A lot of us might wind up in heaven and talk with someone who died young, like James Dean. And that person may well tell us we did nothing with our lives but get old. So this talk of "sound judgment" gives me pause.

So what are these consequences to sex you speak of anyway? I always marvel at how some people speak of sex as if its a dangerous activity, like people are still dying of syphilis or something. I think sex is pretty damned safe, and I think some people make way, way too much of the dangers. For all the injuries I saw in football in junior high school, its astounding to me how some make sex out to be supremely risky, yet think little of watching a teen boy taken off the football field on a stretcher. Heck, pretty horrific injuries in cheer leading too! I declare that a 14 year old girl who opted for a 26 year old boyfriend instead of cheerleading is generally safer and smarter than a random cheer leader!
 
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