Mamoru-kun said:(remark from my post in the "Vidoll" topic)
...but I'm sure that their songs would have still be as good without their clothings (don't mean nude, of course!) ;-)
............you got one point there.furan said:that's like saying.... Iron Maiden would be exactly the same wihouth their leather pants and chains....
duff_o_josh said:mamoru-kun is absolutely right, you have turn this section into a place of not jpop but japanese gothic culture. there is a big difference between the two. not only have you done that but you mock him personally when all he did was post a comment about these "pop" stars that are absolutely ridiculous. make up hair and costumes are a big thing but these guys dont know how to rock. not one bit. when i try to read one of your threads all it is a spam section dedicated to how cute one of the guys are, when do you talk about the technicallity of the guitar riff in that one song, or the meaning of lyrics in another? do you do things like this?
lastmagi said:This point seems well made at first, but let's delve further. I see a pattern. Most, if not all, of the bands discussed here involve having archetypical makeup and costumes. In order to not care about the visuals and accessories, there must be an equally random distribution of both these bands and bands that don't exhibit these visual traits, because music and visuals do not necessarily correlate (see below). But the heavy skew of the threads are towards visual bands. So, underneath it all, who really cares about visuals, or at least Visual Kei? I know I for one do not- I listen to both VK and non-VK bands.
I've already addressed this point. See above post.
The point here made is unfortunately counter-productive, particularly for feminists. For starters, it tries to defend by using a stereotype which hurts both sides (women understand beauty and art, men don't). Secondly, it simplifies the reasoning behind why some people (which you generalized to be ﾂ"menﾂ" from Mamoru-kun) don't like what they see: because they are afraid of being seen as gay. But to only see that reason is to deny the existence of others. Perhaps some see the images as gimmicky. Or too eccentric. Or the makeup too overdone (much as women who use too much makeup end up worse off). Perhaps we see it as an overused device used over and over again. The tastes may not fit the viewer (more likely.) The ﾂ"artﾂ" is contrived and too artificial. Whatever the reason, it cannot be simplified to what you suggest.
Mamoru-kun said:I have to say that, just before posting it, I was wandering in this JPop part of the forum, and found a girl that I thought very attractive. Well...perhaps 30 seconds before writing my post, I was shocked as I understood that "she" was a boy's band singer...
GQ, by the way, features very handsome men on the covers. Many men subscribe to the magazine.
Again, you simplify, as well as ignore the point of what I wrote. Part of the issue is not THAT there are pictures, but that the pictures are placed in the forefront of everything. It's the first thing you see, the largest thing you see, and the last thing I care about. It's true to a degree that bands benefit from pictures to round out for the public who they are. But to put up so many 600x800 size pictures of bands in uninteresting makeup is overdoing things, unwarranted, and fails to bring in more people unused to this but may potentially like it.
Also, I've found that the band's images often do not reflect their music. Elegantly costumed artists can be either good heavy rockers or, er, bad heavy rockers. So why should I trust their image to lead me to their music? There is little to no correlation between looks and music, and one should not be tempted to superficially think so.
Another point I was trying to make was more about the genre. I know VK bands do not stay completely rock, and sometimes experiment a bit. But by and large they are rock. I know (or hope) that J-Music is more diverse than just rock-oriented and pop-oriented bands. For my part, I'd like to hear more outside of that boundary. Otherwise, what I hear starts to get stale, as do the discussions.
The pictures are not necessary.
Mamoru-kun said:No no, quite the oposite. I'm not against boys at all. I would even say that if I would have been gay, I would have probably boy hunt some people (Ricky Martin for exemple ;-)). What makes me sick is when I see boys, who could indeed be pretty, showing like girls in JPop shows. That's what -I- don't understand...
Something else I'd like to be explained: someone told me that such groups (and/or gothic groups) are dressing the way they do to become special, to get out of the sheeps herd (sorry, it's perhaps only a french expression). But well, now there is soo much groups like that the the entire sheeps herd became gothic (or whatever you call it...VK, is it right?). Then there, where is the difference between them?
Mamoru-kun said:Well...with all due respect, if that Miyavi is the one showing in the images of your signature...yes, you're right, I don't think that zombies do insane things as he does. But frankly, I hope that my two childs won't grow up in a world filled with too much people like that...
PS: once again, I don't say anything about his mucis (which I've probably never heard BTW). I'm just reacting about his behaviour and his please-look-at-me way of dressing...
RockLee said:Yet I agree that that JRef is becoming more and more a playground for J-music and especially VK.
My wife even says that it's best not to know sometimes ;-)Horizon said:Also, why should we really? Firstly, I can't even tell the difference between guitars and base guitars, so I really couldn't do that and, as for lyrics, normally I don't even look them up. I do not need to know what they're saying to enjoy the music.
Congratulation! First personnal attack of the topic ;-)Rocklee said:Mamoru-kun, recently you posted nothing but threads filled with criticism.Must be because you're a Wallonian
Mamoru-kun said:My wife even says that it's best not to know sometimes ;-)
hebiichigo said:LOL hey I like Dir en grey's lyrics. I like knowing what Kyo's raving on about..I find it very interesting
Excuse-me, but what was an insult in what I wrote there? I was just explaining what I was seeing (especially the finger), and what I hope my childs won't see often. Or is it me who don't understand the english notion of "insult"?Horizon said:Again, you resort to what sounds to be insults. Why must you keep doing this, hmm? Especially if you truly did apologize for doing it before? Tsk, tsk...
your post was hardly agressive and you only stated that your a complete fool.see belowDollporn said:Wow. I put in an agressive argument and NO ONE'S hated me so far. Heehee. This just made my day!
Dollporn said:i am a complete fool.
ah i realize i cant argue with you guys, sorry. a shame, what a shameHorizon said:Again, they are NOT gothic. They are visual kei, but nice try anyway!
And I do not see a "JRock" forum anywhere, so where the Hell are we supposed to talk about it?
Also, why should we really? Firstly, I can't even tell the difference between guitars and base guitars, so I really couldn't do that and, as for lyrics, normally I don't even look them up. I do not need to know what they're saying to enjoy the music. Sometimes I might look 'em up and all, however, I don't usually, so I couldn't do that either. What's left then, besides from pictures? This:
"Ohmigawd! I love -insert random J-band here- so, so much!"
"I know! Me too!"
"Me three!"
"Me fourth!"
"Me fifth!"
"Oh, oh! I do too! <3"
"Ditto, ditto! Who's your favorite? Mine's -insert bandmember's name from random J-band-"
Et cetera, et cetera.
Not to mention the general atmosphere-type thing here that I'm receiving is that we all mostly find that it's a given that we like the band for the music and, well, as you may just be able to tell with the dialogue above, saying how much you love them kind of gets old fast.
And, again, if one doesn't get the pictures, don't go into the THREADS!!
Last two things: first of all, who the Hell are you to know what real "rocking" is? Are you what now? The almighty Deity of Rock n' Roll or some equally as bull-crapped-up thing? And secondly: when did we mock the thread-maker? Not to mention, even if we did, he did insult them for no reason whatsoever, so he'd only be getting kind of what he deserves then.
...and folk harp.Kinsao said:PK plays bass
dollporn said:lastemagi. Damn it, what part of 'you don't have to look' don't you understand? If you don't want to look at the bands, then keep away from the posts, and since it's mostly spam in here anyway(which I admit it is), why come here at all?
And make up your mind, you say you think the pictures unteresting, then why are you so mad about them. If you don't care, you don't mind, right?
Horizon said:Then, again, make your own damn thread! Ohgmigawd! 'Tis not THAT difficult a thing to do. The reason I don't do these things is because I don't KNOW any of these bands. Enlighten me about them then instead of bitching and complaining about how the forum is completely and utterly filled up with visual kei. DO something about it! Just likes lots and lots of people say: if you want something done, do it yourself. Good advice that, so I advise you listen to it for once!
Very crappily at that!
And what? The person becomes hideously ugly 'cause he ain't a chick? Uh-uh...The thing I said about that seems quite good in this situation.
Not to mention I never once did mention that men can't understand beauty and art, but, again, good try anyway!
We females who are completely and utterly straight can and will gladly state rather another girl is pretty, beautiful, gorgeous, et cetera. What I can't understand to a certain degree is why men can't do the same? Are you all just that 'homophobic' or something?
And I doubt it's for the men. Now, if lots of straight men start subscribing to Playgirl (for themselves mind you), I'll totally be swayed. Really.
Gentlemen's Quarterly, most often known simply as GQ, is a monthly men's magazine that focuses on men's fashion and style
...
In 1983 editor Art Cooper changed the course of the magazine, introducing articles beyond fashion, targeting heterosexual men and establishing GQ as a general men's magazine in competition with Esquire.
But the posters like these kind of things and we do not believe the make-up to be "uninteresting". Again, I say it: make your own damn thread and then you have a good reason to start bitching and complaing IF it flops. Possibly.
Ummmm...Pictures ARE necessary. I like to know what the band LOOKS like and, especially, be able to tell who is who once again. Not to mention, the pictures are quite pleasing to the eye. It's not a the most important thing of course, but I still like to know and see.
They're overdone (if you'd read what I wrote, you'd see that was what I was saying)
pinkkillerkisou said:I love sitting and picking songs apart... and really heairing them... each instrument... and the lyrics and vocals... then you can appreciate the whole thing when you put it all back together... I know not many people do that... but I do... I guess it's a muscian thing.
May I remind that basicaly, beside the fact that I used some quite rude words (for which I already said sorry), I was asking info about some specific groups (for which I already got some informations)?pinkkillerkisou said:Now I see... this was meant to be a discussion/rant thread not a please show me bands that dont look like she-male zombies thread. I'm a little slow.
Mamoru-kun said:May I remind that basicaly, beside the fact that I used some quite rude words (for which I already said sorry), I was asking info about some specific groups (for which I already got some informations)?
More globally, I was also asking why more (ancien) traditionnal groups were not shown in this forum, but for that question too I got an answer (even in such a discution, right filtering gives you good answers ;-))