Is "Gaijin" a Racist Slur?

[JimmySeal]

I agree. There are countless good things about this country, and it's silly to think that someone would just up and leave because they feel disrespected at times. Thanks for holding this thread together, gaijinalways.

 

[Mikawa Ossan]

Remember now, that they are also assuming not only that this Asian person understands Japanese (in many cases they don't understand Japanese), but they are also assuming that this Asian person can interpret Japanese into my language.

A fair assumption to make if that Asian person and you entered the establishment together. Also, about the Asian being able to understand Japanese: I'd say a good 90~98% of Asians in Japan are in fact native Japanese speakers. That an Asian in Japan can understand Japanese is a pretty good bet, I'd say!

Also let me reiterate that most of the time, the waiters demonstrate this behavior after I've already ordered things and spoken to them in Japanese.

Yes, this happens sometimes. If it really bothers you, you can ask the Asian person to politely tell the store person to address you directly. Just getting upset won't accomplish anything, though.

Hmm, sometimes this doesn't seem to be enough. Or sometimes what might be best is to just decide what is going to bother you and what won't.

Well, whether it's enough or not is a matter of debate, but I see that you have found a very workable solution in the long term. That's really what's necessary, wouldn't you agree?

Actually what bothers me more is when foreign residents defend older Japanese discriminating because they are old! This just doesn't cut it in my world, let the old guys crawl back under a rock somewhere .

Actually, I find this ironic, because I don't think I've ever once faced discrimination from an older Japanese! Quite the opposite. I find older Japanese to be among the most friendly and accepting people that I've ever met!

 

[Rich303]

I've ever once faced discrimination from an older Japanese! Quite the opposite. I find older Japanese to be among the most friendly and accepting people that I've ever met!

I have to agree with that.
Most of the conversations with strangers I had in Japan were with older people. They were very nice to me.

 

[gaijinalways]

Well, I am more thinking of some landlords who refuse to even entertain renting to foreigners and some who might not want you dating/marrying their daughters (sons seem to be less of a protected group). Yet, I have had foreigners who come out and defend these people, something I believe they would hardly do in their own countries (hey, maybe I can use this to defend President Bush's actions, the guy is just like old!).

 

[ArmandV]

I have to agree with that.
Most of the conversations with strangers I had in Japan were with older people. They were very nice to me.

Same here. I've gone to several Starbucks in Japan and older Japanese sit near and strike up conversations. Many a time I ended up chatting longer at a coffee house than intended.

 

[Rich303]

Well, I am more thinking of some landlords who refuse to even entertain renting to foreigners and some who might not want you dating/marrying their daughters (sons seem to be less of a protected group). Yet, I have had foreigners who come out and defend these people, something I believe they would hardly do in their own countries (hey, maybe I can use this to defend President Bush's actions, the guy is just like old!).

Sorry to hear of your bad experience. I guess I've been lucky !

 

[Mikawa Ossan]

Well, I am more thinking of some landlords who refuse to even entertain renting to foreigners and some who might not want you dating/marrying their daughters (sons seem to be less of a protected group). Yet, I have had foreigners who come out and defend these people, something I believe they would hardly do in their own countries (hey, maybe I can use this to defend President Bush's actions, the guy is just like old!).

I have had an application for an apartment denied once, but I was not given any reason. When I think about it, of course I can't help but wonder whether the fact that I am a foreigner had anything to do with that, but whatever the reason was, it turned out to be no big deal at all. I quickly applied for another apartment and was quickly accepted.

As for fathers not wanting their daughters to date or marry foreigners, actually I agree with such fathers. If I had a daughter in Japan, I would be highly skeptical of any foreigner (especially white guy) who showed interest. It is not a racist thing, really (even though I understand that it may sound that way). The reason why I feel that way is very simple. Go to a place like the gaijinpot forum and look at the way they talk about women. Revolting, especially from a father's point of view.

 

[Hachiro]

As for fathers not wanting their daughters to date or marry foreigners, actually I agree with such fathers. If I had a daughter in Japan, I would be highly skeptical of any foreigner (especially white guy) who showed interest. It is not a racist thing, really (even though I understand that it may sound that way). The reason why I feel that way is very simple. Go to a place like the gaijinpot forum and look at the way they talk about women. Revolting, especially from a father's point of view.

I agree with you here. Not just Gaijin Pot but places like F***d Gaijin and quite a few others as well. Not a very pretty image.

Originally Posted by Mikawa Ossan
I've ever once faced discrimination from an older Japanese! Quite the opposite. I find older Japanese to be among the most friendly and accepting people that I've ever met!

I agree with this as well, and to add that the older Japanese that I know are polite beyond neccessity.

So I would say that what it comes down to is this; It's not the word it's the people and since the majority of the Japanese people in my opinion are decent people there is no problem with the word.

A concensus opinion will be impossible to get on thread like this as there are too many that felt slighted or talked down to by a Japanese person when called a "gaijin". I have never met such sensitive people anywhere else in the world. It's almost unbelievable to the point of becoming ludicrous. I truly feel sorry for those people, they have my pity as well, that they let something so minor destroy their experiences here in Japan or maybe not destroy but leave a constant reminder of their difference ness. For many it seems like this is their first experience with being different and sticking out for it, thus they end up blaming and branding the entire country as being guilty because of a few idiots or punks.

 

[Orionvortex]

personally, whether or not I find it offensive depends on the context. Some people say "gaijin" because they have never been taught that there is a difference between "gaijin" and "gaikokujin". When these people use it I am not offended at all.
However, there are some who clearly know the difference between the two and only use "gaijin" when they are expressing their frustrations over foreigners. In this situation I am a bit offended.
In my experience though, it is easy to tell from the context whether or not you are being discriminated against.

 

[Maciamo]

I have to agree with that.
Most of the conversations with strangers I had in Japan were with older people. They were very nice to me.

Do you mean older men ? I have also noticed that older men tend to be more confident in general, including for talking to foreigners. Old Japanese women though tend to be just the opposite (in my limited experience of course ).

 

[Rich303]

Hello Mac,

I suppose it was mainly men;
In Tokyo I had a chat with an old man when I was waiting to meet my pen pal for the first time. And the lovely old guy in Fukuoka who helped me figure out this weird beer tokens machine in a bar.
There was also the cafe owner and his friend the Jazz musician/bar owner in Nagasaki and a taxi driver.

I did meet a nice lady too with her husband, but she did all the talking.
However, I imagine people in Nagasaki are more used to gaijin, so maybe this was a factor.

As a lone traveller, encounters such as these are what give me warm memories of Japan.

 

[ArmandV]

Do you mean older men ? I have also noticed that older men tend to be more confident in general, including for talking to foreigners. Old Japanese women though tend to be just the opposite (in my limited experience of course ).

For me, older Japanese men seem more outgoing and will want to chat. Not so with older Japanese women. However, younger Japanese women will want to chat.

 

[Pachipro]

It's A Generic Word People!

Other people have covered this in depth, but it seems all too often that when people who've known me for several months talk about me, they use the word "gaikokujin" rather than "Amerikajin." Calling me an American would obviously convey the fact that I'm foreign, but that bit of information is irrelevant. I'm foreign, and that's all they really want to say. It's also often the case that when people want to ask me questions about other people like me, they ask "Do other gaikokujin yadda yadda?" or "In gaikoku, blah blah?" How the heck should I know information that encompasses all the non-Japanese in the world? I lived in New Jersey all my life before I came here.

And I lived all my life in Brooklyn, New York before I went to Japan.

But here I feel it important to place a disclaimer. If anyone remembers, in old posts I have argued that this problem isn't necessarily as big as some would have you believe. I'm trying to think of the last time I was called a gaijin and it offended me. I really can't recall.
But even so, it's really not worth getting upset over. Those times are far outweighed by the number of times that people didn't even bat an eye at me speaking Japanese. I have had it where people talked solely to me and looked only at me while they were actually speaking to some other foreigner.

I have to agree with Mikawa on this one as it never once offended me and it is not as as big a deal as some would have you believe. Why? Because I understood the Japanese mentality for using this word.

Look at it this way. It is a generic term much the same way we use the word "Xerox" for copying, or "FedEx" for sending an overnight envelope, or "escalator" for moving stairs, etc. Do these companies get upset? Hell no. So why should we when the Japanese use the word gaijin when referring to someone not of the Japanese nationality? It is generic, plain and simple. Understand that and you'll have a better experience living in Japan.

I cannot remember the last time I spoke Japanese and the Japanese person I was speaking to, whether it be in a store, on the street, in a strange bar, or whatever, looked at me strange when I was alone, or spoke to my Japanese partner instead of me, or didn't "hear" me. Why? Because I spoke with confidence, without an accent, and without stumbling through my conversation looking for the right word or phrase. They were instantly put at ease by my use of the language. I could call a strangers house or business on the phone and they could not tell if I were a gaijin or Japanese.

Speak non-fluent Japanese and without confidence and you will encounter what Jimmy Seal mentioned above. I do not know his fluency level or confidence level, but I am just surmising here. I know Maciamo will beg to differ with me as I know he was fluent and probably spoke without an accent, but I almost never encountered the problems he had with Japanese people and businesses.

This does not solely happen in Japan. My Japanese wife and I went to a Korean restaurant some years back here in the US for the first time and when the waitress came to take our order she spoke in Korean to my Japanese wife! Was my wife upset at this? No. We had a laugh over it and she just replied that even Koreans cannot tell weather one is Korean or not as Korean, Japanese and Chinese resemble each other so much.

Also, here in the US, people who do not know us assume that my wife, and all Asians for that matter, are Chinese, regardless of their nationalities. I have never heard any Asian, including my wife, getting upset over this or them writing to the newspapers on how racist and ignorant Americans are. They just take it for what it is: Asian person=Chinese in America.

Therefore, get used to the word gaijin in Japan as a generic term or go through your experience there with a chip on your shoulder and a bitter taste in your mouth and come home regretting your stay and telling everyone how racist the Japanese are. The Japanese are not as PC as we in the west are. The word is generic and can mean American, English, Belgian, Australian, foreigner, alien from another planet, etc. In other words gaijin=not Japanese natiuonality.

It has not changed in over 30 years for me and I doubt it will ever change. But racist the word is not and it does not offend me in the least.

 

[Pachipro]

You want to carry a chip on your shoulder's for the rest of your life because you think you are being discriminated against from the use of the word "gaijin" go ahead. In the long run it is you that will turn into the thing that disgusts you the most. Purely because you do not have an open mind (oh you say you do, but in reality not so) and expect other peoples and cultures to bend to your ways.

To me you will never be satisfied until this country Japan, and for that matter the world as well, bends to your misguided, yet altruistic view that the world will only be a better place when everyone accepts your misguided and arrogant view of political correctness.

I agree wholehartedly and it always amazes me why gaijin who decide to live and work in Japan get so offended at this and want to change the entire culture and thinking of a nation so set in it's ways and with more than a thousand more years of history and culture than the US. Sometimes this PC crap drives me up a wall.

Shouldn't it be us gaijin who should study the culture and thinking of the country we are living and working in and claim to enjoy so much and learn to adapt to their ways? After all it is us gaijin who freely went to Japan.

Why is it that gaijin from the west want to change Japan (I don't know know about other Asian countries) when they live here and demand that change by getting so upset over it? As I said above it will never change and why should it? If I didn't like it I could've always just packed my bags and left. Personaly I like Japan just the way it is and I never felt discriminated there save for getting turned down for an apartment twice. But my thinking on this is, hey, it is their land and their property. If they don't want to rent to me it is their perrogative. Who the h*ll am I to say, "rent me your apartment or I will sue you, write the newspapers, and post negative comments on JRef forums about how racist and discriminatory you Japanese are!"

Heck, Japanese landlords, real estate agencies, bars, or hot springs doen't even rent apartments to Japanese themselves or serve them if they have tatoos or don't like the way they look. Do they sue or make a stink over it? No. They just go to the next real estate agency or bar or spa and they will get served.

Personally, if I owned a business or apartment I would like the perogative of who I should serve and who I should rent to and who I shouldn't. I would rather trust and err on my own intuition and experience rather than being forced into something I might regret later on.

Does that make me a racist? Far from it as I am the most non-racist person I know and do not discriminate against anybody. I just go with my intuition and experience. Does that mean I hate all blacks because I got mugged once in New York? NO. Does that mean I hate all Japanese because they picked a fight with me and insulted my fiancee because she was with a gaijin? No. I base each person I meet on my intuition.

I just don't like the government or the PC crowd telling me how to run my life or business. Experience is the best teacher which is probably why I was turned down for an apartment near the US Army base and why foreigners were not allowed in a few bars around there also and why no cab would stop for me on a few occasions. Those people had experience with foreigners and didn't want it repeated. Those those few bast*rds spoiled it for the rest of us.

But do I despise the Japanese people and country as whole for this and demand that they change? I may be in the minority, but heck no I don't. The positive experiences I had there far, far, far outweighed the few negative experiences.

 

[ArmandV]

I agree wholehartedly and it always amazes me why gaijin who decide to live and work in Japan get so offended at this and want to change the entire culture and thinking of a nation so set in it's ways and with more than a thousand more years of history and culture than the US. Sometimes this PC crap drives me up a wall.

I am in total agreement, but see my 6/21 post in this thread.

 

[Maciamo]

For me, older Japanese men seem more outgoing and will want to chat. Not so with older Japanese women. However, younger Japanese women will want to chat.

Same observation for me. Younger Japanese women and older Japanese men... These seem to be the most confident (and influencial ?) section of Japanese society.

 

[Pachipro]

I agree 100%. The younger women and older men were the ones who struck up the most conversations and made the first moves. Middle aged women and older women almost never. However, those that did strike up a conversation or who were friendly towards me, even if they used the word "gaijin" or "gaikoku" in conversation, I never took it to be racist or discriminatory. It's just the way it was and I interpreted it to mean what it was intended.

 

[Pachipro]

In the course of googling answers for the map thread, I came across this old post which is relevant here:

Talking Frogs who Read as well

Great post. You should be posting those experiences here! Great writing style. And I can totally relate to your experience as I experienced a couple of those types of encounters also. The only surprise was that the "gaijin" understood kanji and had a little more info than the Japanese national. In the end they were grateful for the help.

I am in total agreement, but see my 6/21 post in this thread.

I did and gave you rep for a great quote. One I will use in the future I'm sure if that's ok with you. ;-). I'll give you cred though.

 

[ArmandV]

Great post. You should be posting those experiences here! Great writing style. And I can totally relate to your experience as I experienced a couple of those types of encounters also. The only surprise was that the "gaijin" understood kanji and had a little more info than the Japanese national. In the end they were grateful for the help.

I did and gave you rep for a great quote. One I will use in the future I'm sure if that's ok with you. ;-). I'll give you cred though.

Fine with me.

 

[MajideSaiaku]

I didnt have any problem with the term gaijin, hell, I use it myself.

However, its fully appriciable that some individuals would find it uncomfortable, even upsetting the way it is used.

Like Japan as a whole, its something someone new to japan must come to terms with themselves, no lying, Japan has its share of problems and issue's. Everyone new to Japan faces just one simple issue, do they accept japan for what it is? or do they decide they are better off elsewhere?.

Much in the sense if you dont like one cafe's coffee, you go to the one down the road.

Fighting over this Japanese word is effectively futile, many of us dont live in Japan, the rest have little hope of being in a position to change it.

Fortunately for us, by luck or Gods good graces, the world is generally big enough for everyone and varied enough for everyone to find somewhere and someone that is suitable to them.

My two cents.

- Nuri

 

[gaijinalways]

Pachipro,

one thing to keep in mind is that you don't live in Japan now, and some things have changed since you left. Certainly people letting you sleep in their house in their daughter's room doesn't exist anymore, unless you are already a boyfriend at least.

As to Nurizeko's comments, it's true, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't try to change things that are unfair in Japan, especially if we live here.

 

[Pachipro]

Pachipro,
one thing to keep in mind is that you don't live in Japan now, and some things have changed since you left.

True, I may not live there at present, but that doesn't preclude me from commenting on the topic does it? And could you please tell me some of the things that have changed? As far as I know not much has changed except for the huge amounts of construction going on. And, since I may not be living there that does not mean I have no idea what is going on. I visit frequently and keep up with the country and culture as much as you do living there.

Certainly people letting you sleep in their house in their daughter's room doesn't exist anymore, unless you are already a boyfriend at least.

Could you please point out where I mentioned that in this thread and what, if anything, does it have to do with the topic at hand? Or, maybe it is a personal attack against me because you have nothing to add to this argument?

As to Nurizeko's comments, it's true, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't try to change things that are unfair in Japan, especially if we live here.

What, if anything, are YOU doing to try and change things? Could you please point out what is unfair about the word. Why are you using "gaijin" in youre handle? I would surmise that one who would like that word to stop being used and who thinks it one of the unfair things about Japan would not use such a word in their name.

You, sir, have not added much to this debate with this post. What exactly are you trying to say?

 

[gaijinalways]

I was referring to your interesting story about when you first came to Japan, but it in an oblique way. Sorry you didn't pick up on that. And I mean things have changed in a negative way, and as a visitor you wouldn't necessarily pick up on that, as your exposure would definately be more limited than a current resident's would be.

As to my handle, I think generally that is the truth, and there probably is very little most of us non-Japanese can do about it. It is very far and few between foreign residents who are really fully accepted in the local communities here, sometimes regardless of what they believe.

As to what I am trying to change, I think I hit someone's nerve already, so getting people to think about this issue is helpful. I have had some students ask me about my e-mail address as well (which carries a similar handle), and I always ask the student, what do you think it means (usually starts an interesting discussion)?

 

[Mike Cash]

I have had an application for an apartment denied once, but I was not given any reason.

I've been denied apartments and employment numerous times, with it often being clearly stated that my being a gaijin was the reason. No reading between the lines necessary.

 

[Minty]

Surely it can be! I have studied Japanese language and culture ﾋ?ｪﾂ青ｶﾅ椎凪?督ｽ for over half of my life, and yet I am still an outsider just because I was not born in Japan... To me, it is slightly demeaning; then again, it depends on the person. This is not a black-white, I'm right you're wrong typed issue.
Anyone know the book 窶冢窶ｹ窶ｦ窶堙娯?｢ﾃ?窶堋ｫ窶｢ﾃｻ? Well, I bought it for Taiwan, and there was this great caption: 窶弖窶｢ﾃｪ(the name of the place)窶堙最?Oﾂ坂?伉人窶堙｢窶佚､ﾋ徘窶堙娯?堋ｨ窶ｹﾃ?ﾅｽﾂ昶?堋ｿ窶堋ｪ窶伉ｽ窶堋｢ﾂ住窶佚ｮﾅ?Xﾂ。 That made me smile, cuz guess what! in this case, Gaikokujin includes Nihonjin!

Yeah, many Japanese people like to live in 窶弖窶｢ﾃｪ which a suburb area in Taipei if they are sent to work in Taipei. It is a very wealthy expensive suburb, my mother's friend used to live there but due to her husband's work they moved from Taipei窶佚､窶徒 to Kaoshiungﾂ坂?壺?悩, and they rent out their place to Japanese clients.

Well good luck on your trip to Taiwan, I hope you would have a good time, my husband wasn't too happy in our trip to Taiwan but since you are American and the Taiwanese only know Americans ( sort of like the Japanese in this sense) probably things would be different.