Is "Gaijin" a Racist Slur?
- Thread starter Flanker
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Oh sure just like the word "immigrant" or "foreigner" in English can be deaming too. Do you or anyone for that matter, complain about the term when it is used in English?
It all depends on how it is said and used, and it also matters to the (over) sensitivity of the person hearing it.
It is "only" demeaning to you if you choose to let it be so, no matter how someone say's the word "gaijin" all that matters is you choosing to be offended or not, and if you or anyone chooses to be offended.
- 15 Mar 2002
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Glenn said:
It is far better to take a couple of seconds and interact with the kid on a human-to-human level and bust his gaijin cherry, for lack of a better term.
I was once shopping in a supermarket in Tokyo when a little girl of about 5 years old looked at me and remarked to her mother what a big nose I have (being a gaijin, you know). Her mother told her she shouldn't say such things. The child's reply was "It's alright. He can't understand me anyway."
You could have knocked her over with a feather when I told her, "Yes, I can".
I knelt down at her level and told her that anybody, Japanese or foreigner, would be pleased if such a cute kid said hello to them, in Japanese or English, and that she should try that next time.
The best way to fix people's attitudes and actions is person-to-person, one person at a time.
- 4 Jun 2006
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That's awesome. You win.Mike Cash said:
Absolutely. That's something I've been trying to say for a while.
I said it before, I'll say it again: we really don't. Well, we don't use "immigrant" as derogatory ever because 75% of us on the East Coast are descended from immigrants. As for foreigner, I already said that to many Americans, status as foreigner is considered temporary and/or a choice.Hachiro said:
On top of that, we've been educated (brainwashed?) with political correctness so much that many of us are incredibly sensitive to potentially offensive words, so we usually try not to point out someone's foreign status.
In comparison, the word "gaijin" is symptomatic of a dualistic view of ethnicity--you are either Japanese or you aren't. In addition, full-blooded Japanese Americans I know who returned to Japan after one or two generations have informed me that they are considered gaijin. The word can absolutely be used offensively.
In other words, it is all based on outlook. In the United States, the culture has a very inclusive attitude. Being American is a matter of choice, not birth. In most countries, including many other Western countries, that isn't the case. And Japan, with its dualistic view, is very exclusive.
- 15 Mar 2002
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Gaijinian said:
I glanced over at your age and suppressed a giggle.
You're falling into the same trap Maciamo did. You're assuming that those ﾋ?ｪﾂ青ｶﾅ椎凪?督ｽ窶堙 studies alone are or ought to be a ticket to something.
Have you ever even been here?
You know, you could come hang out at my company for a day. That would make two gaijins there; me and you.
One would be an insider, and one would be an outsider. And it wouldn't be based on where we were born. This whole "Oh woe is me....I'm doomed to always be an outsider because of my birth. How tragic to have it brought home to me by this horrible term, gaijin" crap is waaaaay the hell overplayed by people who think that just being within the borders of the country or having studied the language/culture out of a damned book is the price of admission to insider status.
We English speakers have the expression "in the same boat". Japanese have the expression ﾂ"窶慊ｯ窶堋ｶ窶敕鯛?堙ｰﾂ食窶堙≫?堙??堋｢窶堙ｩﾂ". You want to be inside....get in the damned boat. 99% of foreigners in Japan stand on the pier and look at the boat and wonder why they're not considered sailors.
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You da' man alright, I love that line....."get in the damn boat"
So damn true as well.
Excuse me, the US is also exclusive of foreigners as well, and the word immigrant still carries negative connotations to many. But for arguments sake only I'll conceed the point, as I personally know people who still think otherwise. There are plenty in the USA that think the same way as well about "damn foreigners" or "immigrants"
You think Japan is exclusive, go to China, from what I hear they are even worse. This is Asia, I am getting tired of people expecting things to be the same everywhere around the damn world. I am tired of people judging Japan and it's people before taking the forests out of their own eyes.
I'm getting a bit tired of repeating myself on all these threads about this word, think what you want to think. You want to think that you are being discriminated against because someone calls you gaijin, go ahead. Did I ever say it couldn't?
You know what you got it all wrong, it's only offensive if someone has a chip on their shoulder that allows themselves to be offended by the word.
By extension with your way of thinking half the Japanese language is probably offensive because of the way it can be used to offend someone. Well maybe not half but a 1/3 possibly.
My point...any word can be used offensively.
Have you or anyone else here for that matter noticed that at a minimum there are 2 people posting on some of these literally obnoxious threads about "gaijin" this or "Japan is racist that...." that have literally over 40 years of combined experience in living in Japan, living in two totally different locations, not knowing each other, outside of a few posts here on Jref, saying damn near the same thing. It isn't a big deal.
Think about that.
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Gaijinian
Sempai
- 3 Jun 2005
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Would I be out-of -the loop if I haven't? Oh, I forgot I was talking to the man who has been in Japan so long that he lost track of the actual amount of time he's been there....Mike Cash said:
Anyway, obviously I have been there, or I could not have told my personal story (kangaetoitekure)
It is not the term, it's the use of the term. I know I'm not Japanese--that's a given. But, I am human; it shouldn't be that much of I shock that a fellow ningen, nihonjin or gaijin, can use chopsticks, ect... Really what it comes down to is ignorance, rather that the actual term.
What does my age have anything to do with it...? First, I'm not good enough for this conversation because of my short amount of time spent in Japan (surprising Mike Cash would make that an issue), and then because of my age... Sorry for interfering in your forum, Mr. Cash-sama. Moushiwake arimasen.
Random side note: I've also seen this as "窶慊ｯ窶堋ｶﾅ?ﾋ懌?堙娯?敕鯛?堙ｰﾂ食窶堙≫?堋ｽ (I guess te'ru could also work)."
Well, that's my rant for today (believe it or not, I'm in quite the good mood right now). Bye!
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- 4 Jun 2006
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There are in all countries. Nevertheless, it is easier to become an American and accepted into American society as one than most other countries.Hachiro said:
I'm not making judgements. I'm pointing things out. I'm not arguing that the Japanese should change. I'm not attacking their outlook or their way of life, nor am I criticising their language and idioms.
So, by your logic, anyone should be able to say the word "nigger" then? And don't say that the word is loaded and has 300 years of history behind it, either, that'd be a cop-out.
This isn't Derrida or Noam Chomsky here. You are arguing "linguistic turn" postmodern literary criticism here without even realizing it. A word can be meant as offensive by the speaker regardless of how it is recieved.
Yes, I can control my reaction to how a word is recieved. However, the intent is totally generated by the person speaking, and the speaker is equally valid as the listener in any form of discourse. That's a basic of communication. Yes, the listener has control over his reaction to the speaker. But you are completely devaluing the role of the speaker.
You are drawing conclusions about my comments that I never intended to make. I'm not condemning people for their use/misuse of the word gaijin, I'm just trying to discuss the basic facts. And I am not attacking Japanese language or making value judgements. But that shouldn't stop me from calling a spade a spade here. And I didn't say the word was constantly used offensively, I just remarked at its potential, and some of the conclusions we can draw from the meanings of the word; insight into the Japanese mindset if you will.
Yes, I have, actually. And I do believe they might be biased, but that doesn't make what they have to say any less important. Honestly, much of what Maciamo has said has blown away many misconceptions I've had. But don't let your opposition to their claims bolster your own bias, Hachiro. I take everything Maciamo says with a grain of salt, but I believe some of it deserves to be said nonetheless. No society is perfect, and the good has to be taken with the bad. Too many people discuss the good and not the bad sometimes.
I don't think Japanese people have any racist intent behind their use of the word "Gaijin" (knowing this as a Japanese myself). Isn't that simply short for "Gaikokujin", which has pretty much the same meaning? Although, it is true that "Gaikokujin" sounds more formal because this way you have "koku " in the middle meaning "country" and that it specifies someone as a person (or people) from overseas. In this sense, if you loose the "koku" part, it just ends up meaning "outsider", but still it is harmless in intent. It just really depends on how people use it.
Besides, there's no other way or word to really say foreigner.
Besides, there's no other way or word to really say foreigner.
- 15 Mar 2002
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I know precisely how long I've been here, just like every other gaijin does. I just choose not to make a big deal out of it or pretend it means anything.Gaijinian said:Would I be out-of -the loop if I haven't? Oh, I forgot I was talking to the man who has been in Japan so long that he lost track of the actual amount of time he's been there....
I must have missed your personal story somehow.
Alright....it comes down to ignorance.
So what?
This is what your age has to do with it:
Sarcasm isn't your strong hold. Either practice up on it or give a rest entirely.
I never said you're not good enough for this conversation. I just asked if you had ever even been here. I can easily enough guess you've never lived here. As for your age...I only mentioned it because it's cute (see the picture, above).
Fair enough, I apologize if I was reading too much into your posts so far. I dont want this to get into a dissertation about the differences in the societies and cultures either, as that would truly be a "Never ending story......" Sorry about that.
Unfortunately imo, at least recently anyway, too many threads here are started with that in mind and it gets a bit tiresome reading all the negativity that people write about a perceived "slight" all due to their, misunderstanding, arrogance, and or ignorance of the Japanese culture and a simple word like "gaijin".
- 15 Mar 2002
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Foreigners who make their livings in Japan due entirely to the fact that they are foreigners and who then b*tch and whine about having their foreignness noticed or commented on are sort of like strippers climbing down off the runway, pulling dollar bills out of their g-strings, and then bitching and whining that somebody kept staring at their boobs.
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- 19 Jan 2005
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I said it before in other posts and I'll say it again here, to me the word "gaijin" means "not Japanese", period. That's why it is used when referring to Japanese born and raised in other countries and then returning to Japan. They are not Japanese and were not born and raised in Japan.
As usual, Mike says it best. I don't care if you (you in general) live there for 50 years, obtained Japanese citizenship, vote, know the language and culture better than most Japanese, and die there, you will still be a gaijin in my opinion even to your friends who know you are an "insider".
Foreigners have been whining about this term forever and it seems they will continue to do so for all eternity. Accept it and move on or go through live with a chip on your shoulder. The choice is yours.
Mike Cash said:
As usual, Mike says it best. I don't care if you (you in general) live there for 50 years, obtained Japanese citizenship, vote, know the language and culture better than most Japanese, and die there, you will still be a gaijin in my opinion even to your friends who know you are an "insider".
Foreigners have been whining about this term forever and it seems they will continue to do so for all eternity. Accept it and move on or go through live with a chip on your shoulder. The choice is yours.
- 4 Jun 2006
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My first point is that this discussion is has been waged on two different threads in two different departments. Tempers are flaring, and people have stopped communicating and instead have begun asserting personal biases more than discussing the situation.
This is totally true. It is true you'll never be an insider or truly accepted. But it also accords you a variety of opportunities. This doesn't mean you should go nuts like Tom Green and block escalators and do other ridiculous stuff like that just to mess with their Japanese minds, that's asinine. But it does mean that you may be accorded a degree of leeway that many Japanese would not be.Pachipro said:
- 15 Mar 2002
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GodEmperorLeto said:
A mind block which generations of foreigners have used as an excuse to remain comfortably in the little gaijin niches the Japanese expect them to be in.
People overlook the very obvious fact that even within our own countries there are places and circumstances in which each and every one of us will find ourselves either rejected or marginalized for one reason or another.
Japanese aren't immune to this. Being Japanese isn't a carte blanche pass to acceptance in all places in Japanese society. Neither is being a foreigner an automatic bar to acceptance in all places in Japanese society.
It's just too easy too fall back on that us/them dichotomy and assume that everything is closed off due to Japanese xenophobia/racism/cliquishness rather than try to move beyond the stereotypes.
If I hadn't believed the above, I'd still be stuck teaching English like everybody expects a good little white boy to do.
I only do it because I enjoy it. I also am given the opportunity to teach the little buggers that there is a bigger world out there besides Japan and the US, or Japan and "gaikoku".
Mike I agree with you on the following as well;
You only are what you let yourself be.
- 23 Sep 2005
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I was wondering, what sort of definition are we giving to "racial slur" right now? Gaijin isn't really a rascist term because it is not directed towards any races/nationalities in particular or anything, but rather just a general (even if sometimes not a very polite/respectful) term given to anyone who isn't japanese.
I think people just don't like the term gaijin a lot of the time because they don't like to be made to feel like an outsider all the time or grouped up into steriotypes etc. Are there actually any other names or words for foreigner in japan (respectful/polite or not) apart from gaikokujin? If not, then what else can japanese call people who are foreigners to the country? Just curious :? ...
I think people just don't like the term gaijin a lot of the time because they don't like to be made to feel like an outsider all the time or grouped up into steriotypes etc. Are there actually any other names or words for foreigner in japan (respectful/polite or not) apart from gaikokujin? If not, then what else can japanese call people who are foreigners to the country? Just curious :? ...
Tokis-Phoenix said:
It's an equal opportunity racist remark towards any and all foreigners living in or outside of Japan. So I guess you could say it's Japan against the rest of the world with this term.
And to those that actually believe that.....
Hmmmm.....gaijin?
gaijinalways
puzzled gaijin
- 15 Jan 2006
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That's a good point, in a sense 'gaijin' is not racist, rather it is exclusionary in a sense. I really doubt you would continually refer to your friends as Japanese if they had lived in your country a long time (and taken citizenship or permanent residence). As to calling returnees 'gaijin', that just seems stupid, but of course that's my take on it, i.e. I don't usually think of the world as Americans and non-Americans.
JimmySeal
Tubthumper
- 5 Mar 2006
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Gaikokujin is a fine word for "foreigner." What gets our hackles up is that the average Japanese person seems to use the word "foreigner" about 40 times more often than the average person in any other civilized country. Half the time, they use the word "gaikokujin" when the words man, woman or person would suffice.Tokis-Phoenix said:
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On a separate note, I was watching the World Cup with a friend last night (I know nothing about spectator futbol, and had to ask even to find out where it was being played), and I asked where Japan's player Alex Santos was from. My friend answered probably Brazil, but that he naturalized as a Japanese citizen, then she said "Nihonjin desu." I thought that was interesting.
As the players were leaving the field for halftime, my friend said that gaikokujin are large and so the Japanese players are at a disadvantage and get tired more easily. It occurred to me that it's silly to say "people throughout the rest of the world are big" when it's really just that the Japanese players are small. Still I'm not even sure that there was much of a size difference. Maybe just a case of self-victimization.
First off speak for yourself "our hackles up...." It's pretty arrogant to assume that "us" agrees with you.
I guess you have a rather shallow knowledge of Japanese to make a statement like this, you are expecting the Japanese people to use Japanese as a English speaking person uses English, and that just isn't going to happen.
I just have to ask this, are you one of the perverbial "punks on a lark" here in Japan.
If that's the case it would explain everything.
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lonesoullost3
Economist in Residence
- 1 Jul 2005
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Well yes, I agree with Hachiro's comment on your post Jimmy, do be careful ^_^.
But what you said about Santos is interesting. But, 窶愿ｺ窶怒ﾂ人 can be used to describe not only ethnicity, but citizenship - there is no other term as far as I understand (but someone correct me if I'm wrong, I've only had a year of Japanese and I know I have much to learn). This being true, then it stands that ﾆ但ﾆ陳?椎?ﾆ谷ﾂ人 would be perfectly suitable for someone from the US instead of ﾅ?Oﾂ人. But ﾅ?Oﾂ坂?伉人 is still legit - but just a much broader term. Technically (though not in my limited experience in Japan - which will broaden some this summer ^_^), ﾅ?Oﾂ人 can be used to refer to someone who is not of your group, such as a professor from another university. Whether this is used in practice or not, and how common it is (referencing my limited experience), I simply don't know.
JimmySeal
Tubthumper
- 5 Mar 2006
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OK first of all Hachiro, calm the f*** down. Take a few deep breaths. What I said didn't merit such hostility, but since I've known you to fling poo here before, I'm not particularly surprised.
When I used the word our, I wasn't referring to everyone on this board. I wasn't referring to every non-Japanese person in the world and I certainly wasn't referring to you. I was assuming that there are people who agree with me, which is a reasonable assumption to make. I would bet that Maciamo and probably a few others feel the same way as I do about this matter, and if not, well then I was using the royal we, which wouldn't be the end of the world.
The overuse of the word gaikokujin reflects an additude, in my opinion, that all non-Japanese should be lumped into one group, and they should be treated differently from Japanese people most of the time. But maybe I'm all wrong because apparently I missed this section in the authoritative text from which you learned Japanese:
And I have no idea what a punk on a lark is.
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You're right LoneSoul, nihonjin does technically extend to all people with Japanese citizenship, but I was surprised to see someone go out of their way to call Santos a nihonjin. And as far as I know, nobody uses the word gaijin except to refer to foreigners.
When I used the word our, I wasn't referring to everyone on this board. I wasn't referring to every non-Japanese person in the world and I certainly wasn't referring to you. I was assuming that there are people who agree with me, which is a reasonable assumption to make. I would bet that Maciamo and probably a few others feel the same way as I do about this matter, and if not, well then I was using the royal we, which wouldn't be the end of the world.
The overuse of the word gaikokujin reflects an additude, in my opinion, that all non-Japanese should be lumped into one group, and they should be treated differently from Japanese people most of the time. But maybe I'm all wrong because apparently I missed this section in the authoritative text from which you learned Japanese:
If someone complained about the way that many American southerners refer to black people, would you say, "Don't criticize them. That's just the way they use their language."?Hachiro's textbook said:
And I have no idea what a punk on a lark is.
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You're right LoneSoul, nihonjin does technically extend to all people with Japanese citizenship, but I was surprised to see someone go out of their way to call Santos a nihonjin. And as far as I know, nobody uses the word gaijin except to refer to foreigners.
