Hyakudo

[HyakuJon]

For a while, I have been using "hyaku" as a brand name for my creative work. I live at no.100, I love Japanese crafts (and so much more). It works well.

I am now looking at developing this and was thinking of naming my company hyakudo - which I assumed meant "the way of hyaku" (as in judo, aikido, kendo, kyudo ...)

However, i have now seen hyakudo in user names and in references to temperature - hyakudo C being 100 degrees Celcius. So I would like to know more before changing from plain "hyaku"!

Many thanks.

Jonathan

 

[Buntaro]

Hyakudo definitely means 100 degrees so it would be hard to make Japanese people think of the word "path" (as in kendo and judo, where "do" means the path to enlightenment") instead of "degrees". Kendo is the path to enlightenment via sword-practice and shodo is the path to enlightenment via calligraphy-writing.

 

[HyakuJon]

Arigato gozaimasu! It was best to check, rather than make an assumption. "Do" is to avoid in this context, then.

Is it also a family name? There are lots of Facebook and Twitter accounts which include the name Hyakudo.

Luckily, I have come up with a different name.

 

[mdchachi]

Depends who your market is for. For non-Japanese speakers it will probably work fine since they won't know DO means "degrees" and they will likely associate it with Judo, Aikido, just as you do. For Japanese speakers if you use kanji for the name they'll probably get the play on words.

By the way, the DO in aikido, judo, etc is actually DOU (elongated O sound). So in Japanese they could get away with this naming because the proper pronunciation plus written form would differentiate it from "100 degrees." In fact there's a software company with that name registration here. 百道 = HYAKUDOU. Interestingly they've chosen to use "Momichi" as their name in English.

 

[mdchachi]

By the way, I noticed you are using Hyaku Jon. That could be a possibility as well. Jon (ジャン or じゃん) in Japanese besides being used for the foreign name, it's also a suffix in Japanese that means something like "so there!" or "I told you so."

 

[bentenmusume]

In fact there's a software company with that name registration here. 百道 = HYAKUDOU. Interestingly they've chosen to use "Momochi" as their name in English.

Sorry to be pedantic, but もも is another reading of 百, and "-chi" is (as I'm sure you recognize) from 道. Given that their homepage is momochisoft.com, I would say it's pretty clear that they intend their name to be read as Momochi/ももち in both Japanese and English, not that their Japanese name is "Hyakudou" and they're just randomly choosing "Momochi" as their English name.

Jon (ジャン or じゃん) in Japanese besides being used for the foreign name, it's also a suffix in Japanese that means something like "so there!" or "I told you so."

Hmm... Given that the name John is invariably written as ジョン (the French "Jean" would be ジャン), I'm not sure that wordplay works quite so well (and you'd probably need a じゃん！ or some design flourish to signify that the ◯◯じゃん！ meaning is what you're going for.)

But I concur with your overall point. HYAKUDO(U), especially if you use the kanji for 道 in your name/logo would almost certainly convey the meaning you want to. It's a made-up word, of course, but then again so are many company names in English and Japanese alike.

 

[Toritoribe]

As mdchachi-san explained, the length of vowels is critically important in Japanese language. Judo or Tokyo are recognizable even if written as short vowels since it's common to write in that way customarily, but long vowels and short vowels are strictly distinguished from each other. A Japanese word for "way" is the long vowel one "dou/dō", not the short one "do".

The meaning of a word is provided by kanji. Even if it's written as "hyakudou/hyakudō" in romaji, "dou/dō" can mean hall(堂), copper(銅), child(童), cave(洞) and so on other than "way." Furthermore, kanji usually have multiple meanings, so 百道 also can mean, for instance, "hundred circuits (administrative division)", as in 北海道 Hokkaido .

Confusingly enough, kanji usually have multiple readings, too. The company name mdchachi-san mentioned is "Momochi", not "Hakudou/Hyakudō". In fact, there is a location of the same kanji and same reading in Fukuoka prefecture.

百道 - Wikipedia

ja.wikipedia.org

The romaji Jon is ジョン/じょん, not ジャン/じゃん, by the way.

EDIT:
Oops! Bentenmusume-san beats me!

 

[mdchachi]

Sorry to be pedantic, but もも is another reading of 百, and "-chi" is (as I'm sure you recognize) from 道. Given that their homepage is momochisoft.com so I would say it's pretty clear that they intend their name to be read as Momochi/ももち in both Japanese and English, not that their Japanese name is "Hyakudou" and they're just randomly choosing "Momochi" as their English name.

Ah. Now it makes sense! I didn't even bother to look up the other readings as I should have. I stopped actively learning and retaining kanji about 20 years ago.

Hmm... Given that the name John is invariably written as ジョン (the French "Jean" would be ジャン), I'm not sure that wordplay works quite so well (and you'd probably need a じゃん！ or some design flourish to signify that the ◯◯じゃん！ meaning is what you're going for.)

True. It's not the traditional way to write Jon although it's the way it's normally pronounced, around me anyway. But yes I was imagining a proper design element to indicate it. Anyway Hyaku Jon might work for him regardless of how it's written in Japanese.

 

[bentenmusume]

Ah. Now it makes sense! I didn't even bother to look up the other readings as I should have. I stopped actively learning and retaining kanji about 20 years ago.

No worries. To be fair, it's probably not a reading you come across that often, especially if you're not living in Japan. (I had the advantage of having just exchanged multiple emails with a client named 百瀬（ももせ）さん literally yesterday. )

It's not the traditional way to write Jon although it's the way it's normally pronounced, around me anyway.

Really? When speaking in English or Japanese? If the latter, I can only assume it's because you're in a bilingual environment among speakers who normally deal with Americans and incorporate American pronunciation into their speech, because I can confidently say that I always hear the name John/Jon pronounced as ジョン and literally never ジャン.

(source: my real first name is John )

Oops! Bentenmusume-san beats me!

Haha...well, as stated above, I had something of an advantage.
Not to mention that your post was far more informative than mine (as is almost invariably the case).

 

[HyakuJon]

It's been a fascinating conversation. "Hyaku - so there!!" - I'll remember it for the future.

Well, I'm just playing at the moment, so went with hyakuweb.site (because the .site domain was free). It's not brilliant, but will do to get me started. I love the clever play on words using kanji, but perhaps that's just too clever (and I'm not Japanese). I never realised that the pronunciation of do was dou. Unfortunately, the English speaker would probably pronounce this more like doo. There's also the ō character...

But thank you everyone for the advice!

 

[mdchachi]

Really? When speaking in English or Japanese? If the latter, I can only assume it's because you're in a bilingual environment among speakers who normally deal with Americans and incorporate American pronunciation into their speech, because I can confidently say that I always hear the name John/Jon pronounced as ジョン and literally never ジャン.

No I meant in English. Don't you agree ジャン is closer to the correct pronunciation? Same as the audio here on these dictionary entries.

To be fair, it's probably not a reading you come across that often, especially if you're not living in Japan.

Yes that's my excuse. Ironically I use (written) Japanese far more since I left Japan than I ever did living there. Thank God for modern electronic crutches. What I typically do now is write my email in Japanese, put it into Google translate just to make sure I didn't do something dumb and it translates what I want to say back into English. That way I know even if my actual writing is poor at least the meaning will come across. And then when I receive emails, I use Google translate or wwwjdic to confirm the many words I sort of recognize but can't read. Needless to say I wasn't aware of any other readings of 百 although I must have studied it and probably had a flash card for it 30 years ago.

And to @HyakuJon please come back any time you need advice about incorporating Japanese words in your work. Or just to say hi.

 

[HyakuJon]

Hi! I'm still incorporating Japanese in my creative work, although I don't expect my Japanese has improved much since the above posts.

And so on to my latest idea. I am branching into tea, having spent several years of casual study. Keeping my Hyaku name, I wanted to use HyakuTea, but it's already taken. So, perhaps a more Japanese version.

But, would that be Cha no Hyaku? Or have I really got that the wrong way round and said (very badly) "hundred of tea"?! Hyaku is effectively a proper noun, not the number 100.

The purpose is, "I am Hyaku, and the subject of my site/profile is tea."

Any help negotiating this lnew anguage maze would be greatly appreciated.

Arigato gozaimasu!

 

[Toritoribe]

"Cha no Hyaku" would be the best choice. In fact, there is a real slogan お茶の伊藤園 O-cha no Iōten. Iōten is the company name, and "o" at the beginning is a polite prefix. It means something like "a tea company Iōten."

You can also use 百茶 Hyaku Cha, but this puts more focus on tea. Thus, it works as the name of tea (e.g. 宇治茶 Ujicha, 八女茶 Yamecha, 狭山茶 Sayamacha). Plus, 百茶 is a real word, meaning poor quality tea or cheap tea. This usage is almost obsolete, though.

In any case, you need to keep in mind that "hyaku" is almost always interpreted as "hundred." So, "Cha no Hyaku" indeed can be "hundred of tea", as you suspected. To tell the truth, this is my initial interpretation of the word. (I'm Japanese, by the way.)

 

[HyakuJon]

Thank you very much for your detailed answer.

Cha no Hyaku it is, then, especially if there is anyone who might interpret Hyaku cha as cheap tea! Would the honourary o prefix for cha help anyone who can read the sign to interpret it as a company name rather than "hundred tea"? I think that I made my life more difficult by choosing Hyaku, but i've seen it used in other company names, so I am not alone.

If nothing else, it starts a conversation!

 

[Toritoribe]

"Ocha" is a polite way of saying "cha." The meaning "company" is from the name "Iōten."

Indeed "hyaku" is used in company names or brand names, but it's as a part of compound words, e.g. 百花茶 Hyakkacha, 百仙 Hyakusen or 百年茶 Hyakunencha. The problem of "hyaku" is that this word doesn't sound like a name/proper noun as a single kanji.

 

[HyakuJon]

I see. Do you have any suggestions for my brand name that include the word Hyaku, which I use because that's the number of my house, and "cha" or "ocha" which would make some sense in Japanese, or written using Kanji? As I said, I'd just use HyakuTea if it had been available, or hyakucha if it didn't mean cheap tea! As soon as I use another Japanese word it introduces issues, which is of course part of the fascination of learning languages.

Above all I would like to get this right out of respect for the Japanese language rather than any need to do business in Japan, and not because I want to be cool or because I am trying to be clever either.

Domo arigato gozaimasu.

 

[Toritoribe]

Hmm, how about "Ocha no Hyaku-sha"(お茶の百社)? "Ocha" sounds more polite, therefore more appropriate for a company's name/slogan. "Sha" literally means "company." It still can mean "hundred company", though.

 

[Majestic]

Or how about cha coupled with something like 百斎, 百庵, 百荘 or 百堂 to make it sound like three-character gō.

茶百堂 (Chahya-dō), etc.. Could also be pronounced Sahyaku-dō.

 

[Majestic]

Or (another thought): use the alternative reading for hyaku, which is momo, which might make it sound more poetic and less "numerical"?
(Maybe...I don't really have a good handle on the use of "momo" for hyaku).

 

[Toritoribe]

Yes, momo sounds more poetic or classical. The problem is that momo would be almost always interpreted as "peach" without kanji.

 

[HyakuJon]

Peach tea?

Thank you both for your recent input. I think I'll stick with ocha no hyaku for the time being. It's slightly "wrong", but it's not for a purely Japanese audience, so I think that I'll be forgiven! I hope so anyway. I'll keep my eye out to see if hyakutea falls out of use, but I don't expect it will.