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How Far Are You Western-ized ?

So, how broad is "white" or "caucasian" defined by you? Does it include Arabs? Semites? Hispanics? Slavs? Or is it limited to Aryans

Let me be more specific, I think that when I discuss the west with Japanese people many, probably most, but not all, think of the west as caucasian.

Caucasian means just that nothing more nothing less.
 

Dear ludo,

if you have any judgments about Cyprus you should have studied all details.

EOKA was an organization trying to perform the ENOSIS -the plan of unifying cyprus to Greece-disregarding the turkish residents-generally fighting british as well as turks

EOKA-B was an terrorist organization who massacred many Turks brutally.They were backed up by the Junta of Greece who were in power from 1967 to 1974 -Makarios named them as terrorists and grave diggers of enosis because they were so brutal -

see the link with photos - murder of civilian turks :

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The EOKA-B who already infiltrated to the police and the national guards overthrew the Makarios government.Makarios flew for his life and Turkey landed on cyprus making the Junta collapse in Greece.

So brutal massacres againts took place againt turkish people of cyprus starting from 1955 - to Avoid such happenings UN Troops was sent to Cyprus at 1963 but the un that did not work.

see the secret AKRITAS PLAN - planning of the massacre and total annihilation of turks in cyprus and the ways of acting easily - was printed at 21 April 1966 at PATRIS Newspaper - perhaps some Greek people with common sense just revealed the plan - see the english link

http://www.cyprus-conflict.net/akritas_plan.htm

the massacres done in Cyprus were well documented by western press - you should be able gather information easily - and you should do as well before making such judgments.

thanks
 
You might not have noticed, but a) I left this discussion completely a while ago. b) The discussion has been shifted back to the actual topic.
 
You might not have noticed, but a) I left this discussion completely a while ago. b) The discussion has been shifted back to the actual topic.

yes - sorry for that -

i did not want to abuse the actual topic

but please be sure you have studied details before making major judgments

thanks
 
If by "Western-ization" you mean materialism then I would agree with you, it does corrupt. But it is not like as if the japanese culture will completely disappear because we eat american food and watch american movie. I don't know if anyone would agree, but people these days forget about our most fundamental values; family, love, friends because we want to have the best clothes, bigger house, faster cars etc... That is something that really depresses me these days...
 
I think westernization is not a threat as long as the people are educated, and the native culture and lifestyle are preserved. That way the desired elements of the West can be integrated into the local culture without causing cultural erosion. Japan seems to be quite successfull in that, and unfortunately the sort of people who immerse themselves in material things (like tv shows, and shopping) and rarely think about greater matters exist everywhere in the world. This is not caused by westernization but by insufficient education or lack of education altogether, and it is commerce that takes advantage of that problem. So, I don't think there is a threat for Japan in particular.
 
East, West, Orient, Occident

the late Edward Said wrote a book titled "Orientalism"
I've not read it but wikipedia has this to say:



Another book, this one in which I am currently reading "Iran A People Interrrupted" by Hamid Dabashi often quotes Said and
also writes that the divide between "tradition" and "modernity" is also an artificial creation.

And uses a phrase "Colonial Modernity"

Apparently the Middle East as well as East Asia, and points in between have historically been called "the Orient". In the US it is primarily East Asia. Said writes from the perspective of the Middle East, but the argument is the same.



Some would label me "anti-american".
For ex: I am not proud that I am rich (relatively) precisely because of the rest of the world's poverty and in no small part policies of the US on behalf of transnational corporations.
So maybe they label me "anti-western" as well.
It's an ideological construct.
 
Not only to swallow the pill of "Westerness" as a goal is stupid and corrupting... but also, dangerous.
The "West" is preparing "Regimen Change" in Turkey... so watch out, and spread this message among your friends...
(You could see the whole context in the www.atimes.com, under the series "Germany the Re-engineered Ally").
Please spread this exceprt among your friends.
Regards.
 
in my opinion, japanese people are not so westernized. Of course they too something strong from western countries but they really have their own way of life and this "westernization" is just convenient.
 
Oh crap... and I thought it was the other way around.

I hear lots of people taliking about "westernization", but what is this phenomen? I suppose the inffluence of Japanese or Chinese food in America ,Australia and Europe should be considered "easternization" ? How many sushi trains do you see these days? But, I don't see many people complaining about them, I wonder why that is? (driping with sarcasm)

Could it be that places like Europe, America ect , are more able to accept change in their society? Or is this the problem in itself?

Times change, people change, the world changes , whether it be for the better I do not know, but it is a fact and the sooner you realise that there is no big conspiracy to deprive a country of its values, the sooner you will realise that it is infact your own country or should I say people as a whole making these choices. Remember no one is forcing levis jeans or Mc Donalds down anyones throat, if they didn't sell they would not be there.

There are only a few things that is common to most countries and a big one is money, this is what makes the world go round.
 
Westernisation, is almost synonymous with materialism, well its a major part of it.

I think why westerner's don't complain about Chinese food or Japanese technology is because they don't, also consume Asian culture or values etc, only the convenient i.e. fast moving consumer goods.

Also I'd like the echo FrustratedDave in that its all mainly down to money, if Italy were the world power for over 50 years it will be their cultural exports that will in our faces, why? Because they have the financial backing to do so and exploit (general) ignorance.
 
Murs makes an interesting point. While some people have complained about the sudden influx of asian this and that, from anime to the astounding numbers of asian resturaunts you can find at any street corner, most people don't really care. Why? Because ultimately it's not changing the fabric of our society. Our values, customs and way of life remain the same even as we are being surrounded by asian influences.

On the other hand, asian countries have experienced an upheaval from the 'western invasion'. Governments have changed, ways of living, eating, thinking, even the way they get married is changing as they conform to a 'western' way of life.

I don't know why that is but it's ignorant to blame westerners for this change. We don't go to Japan and force them to eat at MacDonalds or get married in a white wedding dress or wear western name brands. They choose to do this out of their own free will. There are plently of countries that have stayed true to their own cultures and values even while being surrounded by foreign infulences. Asia is everywhere here in Canada yet we're not going out of our way to adopt asian customs and values.

What I'm wondering is, why, with all their rich cultural background is Japan so eager to put it aside in favor of copying the west (especially America), whereas we don't have half the history but are just fine to keep what we do have alive and well?
 
So, how broad is "white" or "caucasian" defined by you? Does it include Arabs? Semites? Hispanics? Slavs? Or is it limited to Aryans?
lol, there are Slavs who consider themselves Aryan.
Aryan Terrorism music, videos, stats, and photos | Last.fm

Aryan was a term adopted by Nazis used to separate culture that was semetic in origin from Indo(Indian)-European culture. To my knowledge the first use of the term Aryan in this way was by Helena Blavatsky. Since the Nazi party was very anti-Semitic this was a useful term for them to separate their European culture from Semitic Jewish culture.
Plenty of people other than Scandinavians have used the word Aryan to describe themselves. There as Slavic Neo-Nazis as well as Japanese Neo-Nazis and Indian Neo-Nazis. Savitri Devi was Southern European Neo-Nazi and her husband was Asit Krishna Mukherji, a Bengali Neo-Nazi.
 
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It's pretty sad that values liek the way you marry even, are being changed. Like I said already, it's imo down to mainly financial strength, thus making American and European things "cooler" to put it crudely.
 
everyone is a little bit westernized, but not FULLY Westernized!

nobody can't denies that he/she has something picked up of the West.

even i can't deny

わたしはばか
 
I was disappointed when I first arrived in Japan how "westernised" it was. While I found their obsession a little flattering, in a way it was rather sad and pathetic. However, the more I got to know the country and the people, the more I realised that the restaurants and name brands and music was really just an outside shell, their true "Japaneseness" eventually shone through. In my opinion, in a certain way their obsession with all things western was kind of a reflection of their national character.
 

I don't understand. You're from Turkey, aren't you ? Turkey is almost a Western country. In the antiquity, it was Magna Grecia (Greater Greece ?). Greece is a western country. Many people spoke Greek in Turkey until 1923. In the south of Italy where my family is from many people are Greek roots. It's the same in Turkey. If I feel Western, it is also because of my ancestors' blood and history. You should feel very western. In fact Turkish people are among the oldest westerners in the world ! You should be ashamed to be ashamed of western culture !!!

]I'm concerned about the same for Japan

Japan is fine. Nobody forces western culture on them.


Haha ! Good point ! There are much more Asian restaurants here than McDonald's ! Yes, the West is becoming as much easternised as the East is becoming westernised ! That's globalisation ! Only Muslim countries are in a time-warp bubble.
 
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A ke bono kane kotto, please read my first post regarding what you said about restaurants, let me know what you think.


On another matter, I think that "Western" really needs to be defined properly here. I think most in the west don't really have culture at all, rather just have behavioural traits but very little values apart from "free" speech etc. So westernisation=break down of own culture? as we in manly parts of europe and america lack culture.
 
To me terms like Eastern and Western have always been weird.
What's Western religion? Wikipedia describe it as Abrahamic religion, Judaism, Christianity and Islam.
So then what is Norse, Celtic and other Pre-Christian European religion. Well...Danu in Celtic religion is the same as the Danu in Vedic religion. So perhaps pre-Christian Europe is Eastern religion-wise.

Eastern and Western are terms that are easy to say, and are thusly flung around without much thought, but are hard to define.
 
MadamePapillon said:
What I'm wondering is, why, with all their rich cultural background is Japan so eager to put it aside in favor of copying the west (especially America), whereas we don't have half the history but are just fine to keep what we do have alive and well?
Alot of it has to do with Hollywood and what they see in the movies and on TV and from music. As long as these parts of the US/European culture continue to pull in hundreds of millions of dollars worldwide, people will want to emulate them, not just the Japanese.

While not being a Christian and donning a white wedding dress and tux and getting "married" in a church, the Japanese consider themselves "cool" (kakuii) to be emulating western (US/European) culture as murs pointed out above.

If you live in Japan, how many times have you heard "kakuii" being said to a person who was dressed as a rapper, surfer, tennis player (even though they may have never surfed or played tennis in their life) or wore some other kind of western dress that is considered trendy? And we all know how important it is to be trendy in Japan. It's almost an obsession to be as westernized as possible.

Does it mean the Japanese are being westernized and losing their vast and storied culture?? I don't know, but it is kind of sad to see some of the Japaneseness being erased from Japanese culture. Most modern condos and houses today have but one, maybe two, Japanese rooms with tatamis. Back in the day it was common for the vast majority of people to dress in kimino on New Years Day, but there are less and less people wearing them vs the past.

Most Japanese today eat a western breakfast and forgo the more healthier Japanese one, but this has more to do with advertising. Still, it is taking a little more each day from the culture.

I am not familiar with the younger generation and how they live anymore, but to me the Japanese around my own age and my friends, although they may be westernized on the outside, are still very Japanese on the inside and have not changed over the years. They still follow tradition and culture and have a kind of disdain for the younger people that do not follow tradition by getting married in western wear in churches and live in western style houses and apartments and such and forgo the wearing of traditional dress during the holidays.

Maybe we can have some input from some of the younger generation of Japanese or westerners living for more than three years in Japan and living like a Japanese as to whether tradition and culture are still being followed.
 
I don't understand. You're from Turkey, aren't you ? Turkey is almost a Western country.

Some would argue that Turkey is one of the most western countries in the world, with its extremely secular government, freedom of speech, and democracy. The stuff that the OP seems to be worried about isn't really "westernisation", but more saturation of American pop culture.
 
Like Pachipro said its not only Japanese, Turkish etc but pretty much every nation trying to emulate Hollywood. Having thought about it more in depth, I think it is quite understandable even, because those who lack much intellect tend to be of this sort. I believe that, perhaps, those people are so insecure about their own worth and qualities that they can cover it up with generic pop junk just to 'fit in'. But this has gone off on an psycology tangent so i'll leave it here.
 

And isn't it ironic that while the rest of the world is eating up that crap there are so many people here that choose instead to listen to lesser known indie bands, watch quality foreign movies and shun the name brands in favor of their own styles because the awareness that hollywood is feeding us crap is growing.
 
People start emulating other cultures when they're bored with their own. The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence as they say.
 
I can not still understand what " westernized" means...

it means clothes, food and house before 100 years ago ....?
"westernized" is an another sinocentrism?

Btw
I think Philippines is the most "westernized" country in asia
 
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