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How do modern Japanese feel about Koreans?

urecco said:
bossel,you can understand Mandarin or Cantonese,can't you?
If so you can easily guess this article bias against Japan.
In the society where Chinese charactor used,the important thing was not pronounciation but Chinese charactor.
You missed the point in the above article: it was about the Olympic games. The IOC uses the Western alphabet for its international organisation. The Korean athlete's "participation is recorded under the Japanese name Son Kitei", because the Japanese Olympic Committee (or whatever that was called at the time) registered him as such.

BTW, my Mandarin knowledge is very limited, but I know that Hanzi were (& are) widely used in East Asia in different languages. From my linguistic courses I know that spoken language is much more important than written language.
 
bossel said:
The Korean athlete's "participation is recorded under the Japanese name Son Kitei", because the Japanese Olympic Committee (or whatever that was called at the time) registered him as such.
At that time,Japanese official language was Japanese.So his Chinese Character's pronounciation was recorded by the Japanese reading system.
When he speaks Japanese,he would call himself Son Kitei,and when he speaks Korean,he woud call himself Sohn Kee-chung.
Nowadays,Korea gov't or some oganization claim Japan to use Korean pronounciation when people use Korean name,maybe because they can't read Chinese character.However,in the past,it was pretty normal to change their pronounciation when they spoke different language in the area where Chinese character was used.
bossel said:
BTW, my Mandarin knowledge is very limited, but I know that Hanzi were (& are) widely used in East Asia in different languages. From my linguistic courses I know that spoken language is much more important than written language.
you are right.but I meant that the important thing was not pronounciation but Chinese character when people recorded foreigners' names or foreign places.
日本 is pronounced "Nihon" or "Nippon" in Japanese,"Riben" in Mandarin and "Ilbon" in Korean.

stupidumboy said:
to 1953?

where did you get that year?
please explain?
Sorry,it was 1952.I made a mistake.the source is Treaty of San Francisco in 1952.
San Francisco Peace Treaty
Besides the treaty, nothing can officially divide Korea from Japan.
Although some people believed that Korea got independence in 1945,losing control does not mean the independence.

stupidumboy said:
(by the way ,the law was not about forcefully changing the names ,but its about giving many disadvantages agianst the people that did not accept it.we need to clarify this.)
Can you give me the examples of the many disadvantages?

There was a Korean lieutenant general called "Hong Shi Yok(洪思翊)"
That means there was no official discrimination agaist the Korean who had not changed their names at least in military promotion.
There would have been some or many personal discrimination agaist the Korean,yet I don't think that discrimination disappear because of name changing and vice versa.

I heard that Korean Japanese was discriminated in China.So many Korean wanted to change their name in order to avoid being discriminated by mainly foreigners.If it is correct,the percentage of 80% was due to their desire.

To be fair,I heard another reason of it.It was that the top of the gov't in Korea believed that Korean people loved to have Japanese name,but the number of people who changed their names immediately was not as much as he'd expected.Then inferior officers began name change champaign in order to make the bigwig happy.
For example, some teachers recommended their students to change their names or village cheives recommended farmers to change their names.

Anyway I want to know actual disadvantages.
Please explain it.
 


Yes the disadvantages are like these followings.

1.ban the entering school of the kids whose parents did not accept the name changement.

2.ban the employment of the people who did not accept the name changement.

3.ban the public government service to the people who did not accept the name changement.

4.apply police shadowing system to the people who did not accept the name changement.

5.apply the prior disadvantages of forceful drafting for military and hard laboring to the people who did not accept the name changement.

6.ban of the rice distribution to the people who did not accept the name changement
(remember -the most rice harvested in korea was forcefully exported to japan in very lower price(usually less than the 1/5 price of that harvest by Japanese farmers in Japan)- and korean people had to rely on the distribution system)

7.ban the postal service to the people who did not accept the name changement

Many people had changed their name to represent of korean idenmtity somehow(such like(金山),(李家), (張田),(西原) although they agreed to the name changement system.

I cannot deny some Koreans wanted to adopt Japanese style names but looking at the result that self wannabes of japanese style names were just less than 6% of the Korean people for the first 6 months after its srating.


About the real independence year of Korea from Japan -Its in the year of 1948,15th Aug.
The year of the establishment of the souvereign South Korean government and USA had approved it. United Nation had approved souvereign independence Korean government in 1948,12nd of Dec.

Only Japan did not not accept it since its under USA military occuation and it was not a member of the UN. But anyways They agreed with it in 1952 like you told.


About Korean a lieutenant general Hong Sa Ik -the Southern Army of imperial Japan stationed in Philipine-He was another symbol of annexation therefore it was very hard to discriminate him and Japan wanted to dispatch him to get the charge of the dirty work-the POW prison camp control where Zeneva accord usually ignored and need to treat the alied Pows like a ****.
Plus Hong was really good student in the military academy,Japan wanted to wash their hands by abandoning those jobs to Koreans-I used to have a email contact with a son of Dutchman militaryman who experinced POW camps and he told his father's memory there -the prison guard were mainly Koreans and Taiwanese and they were not taught the Zeneva accord to treat the allied POWS properly like humans.
Also he told one story that Japanese officers and noncommissioned officers made fun of forceful fight between Korean prison guards and allied POWS,if they did not beat against each other seriously ,they would have been likely to be shot or beat like subhumans.

Hong was the commander -thats very good use of him to represent of the bad record of Japanese soldiers against the allied POWS.

Most Korean prison guards were abandoned when Japanese soldiers took the returning flight back to their home nation ,they captured by the allied and sentenced to the death.Even some of the Koreans pilots who prepared for the last flight were abandoned. They were all captured and some managed to successfully escaped.

The B or C rated war criminals guilted by the treating alied POWS like subhumane were mostly Koreans and some were Formosians.


Hong went to Chosun kingdom's military academy before annexation,but the academy was shut down forcefully -but King Kojong(the last second King of Chosun dynasty) wanted to them to transferred into central military youth academy of Japan. I'd day they were advantaged group treated differently from the general Koreans by Japanese.
 
stupidumboy said:
Yes the disadvantages are like these followings.

1.ban the entering school of the kids whose parents did not accept the name changement.
I found the photo of graduation album in 1941 with Korean style names,yet they'd enrolled at that school beforet the name changement.Who had enrolled after name changement did not graduated before 1945.
Thus, it is very hard to prove that this kind of discrimination had ever happened.Do you have any sources of it like list of kids who enrolled the school?

In a veiw or Korean,the school was the kind of the facility where children were Japanised.If so,on the contrary,gov't should have forced them to enter the school in order to Japanise kids.
stupidumboy said:
2.ban the employment of the people who did not accept the name changement.
At that time,the cheifs or 3 districts out of 13 in Korea did not change their names.How coud they discriminate the people who did not change their name?

stupidumboy said:
3.ban the public government service to the people who did not accept the name changement.
What kind of public service?
20% of people did not change their names.
If the gov't had discriminated them that severely,there would have been big movements to fight against discrimination.But there was no big movement to disagree the discrimination.
stupidumboy said:
4.apply police shadowing system to the people who did not accept the name changement.
It might be true. I have no idea.
stupidumboy said:
5.apply the prior disadvantages of forceful drafting for military and hard laboring to the people who did not accept the name changement.
I have no idea.Give me a source of it,please.
After 1940,every Japanese had to rely on the distribution.If gov't had banned to distribute particular people ,they would have died.
Did 20% of Korean die because of it?
stupidumboy said:
7.ban the postal service to the people who did not accept the name changement
There were politians who had Korean names.It would not be true.
stupidumboy said:
I cannot deny some Koreans wanted to adopt Japanese style names but looking at the result that self wannabes of japanese style names were just less than 6% of the Korean people for the first 6 months after its srating.
You are right.then important thing is reason why the rest of 74% changed their name.
if it was just sticky recommendation,it was not particularly critisizable.
If it was threatening due to discrimination which you mentioned,it was critisizable.

BTW,where did you get the information of discrimination?
Could you give me sources of them.
Sorry,I was wrong.1952 was the year when Korean territory was internationally concluded.

Why was it very hard to discriminate the symbol of annexation?
No matter whether they knew the Zeneva accord or not it was morally bad to ill-treat POWs.

the last epsode might be true and might not be true.
Personal epsode is often exaggerated or made more interesting.
I cannot guess why that Japanese forceed the Korean to fight agaist the POWs even though the Korean belonged to Japanese Military and had guns in other occasions and there was possibility to revenge.
stupidumboy said:
Hong was the commander -thats very good use of him to represent of the bad record of Japanese soldiers against the allied POWS.
Do you think he was in charge of ill-treatment of POWs?
if he was,the representation was his fault.(However, in Japan,he is just used as an example of high rank soldier who had Korean name)
If he wasn't,the Korean should claim against Allied nations who executed him.
Normally,people in higher leve should be more strictly Japanised than people in lower level,if the Japanese really hate Korean culture,language,etc...
 
@urecco,

sorry for late reply,I have been busy with my school.

the answers to the question number 3,4,5 ,you look made very weak refutation and I am not able to analyze them.

The source what I referred to was Korean online website ,therefore I do not think you will put any serious trust on it and I personally thought their opinions had flaws.
well I think Koreans should make more tight and resonable datas to prove their insistence about dicriminated disadvantages due to the name changement opposition.

Let me say about the distribution system.
The distribution system during the war period was not able to cover all of the private citizens in both countries due to the short supply and price rise of rice.

During the war,the cropped rice from both countries were mainly sent to the battle place to support soldiers. so most private citizens who remained in home country were not very pleased with the distribition system and there happend some moderate protests against it in both countries.

I do not know how those rest 20% who did not accept name changement system survived,I found some answerings from Korean forumers but their answer look very unreasonable so I just ignored their answers.


about Korean general Hong and the prison guards,I think they were reasonably punished by allied judgement.

Gneral Hong Sa Ik made no comment to the allied military justice questions untill he sentenced to the hanging and the Korean B.C rated war criminals all admitted that their ill treatement against allied POWS were entirely their faults(they made no excuse) but its often said that they were not taught the Geneva accord and treated like sub humans by Japanese senior soldiers according to the survived allied soldiers who experinced the POW camp in SE asia.

You know the movie -'The Bridge on the River Kwai ' -the Japanese head of the 4th POW camp - Colonel Saito(I do not know his real name but the movie was based on the real story happend in the 4th POW camp)
-his English interpretor for the communication with British soldiers mainly with the officers was a Korean(yes his changed Japanese name was Matsushita-Korean name was Hong Jong Mok-passed in 1997 )-he told the story that happned in the POW camp-usually when Japanese seniors needed to wash their hands for doing some inhumane treatement against POWs such as torturing,they usually forcefully used Korean prison guards.

This man was captured by allied forces and imprisoned in the changi prison in Singapore and sentenced to the death but some British officers who received help from him made defensive verval evidence and he was able to be sent to the Japan.

There is a published book that tells about his real experinced story in Korea.


콰이강의 다리



Yes this colonel on the left(on the movie) had no English actually and his interpretor was a Korean man.

He told about the real experinced story on the 4th POW camp in the book what I showed with link.

I do not want to defend Korean guards' ill treatement against Allied POWs and they were all punished by death but I think its kind of very coward like to use them for the dirty works mainly.

http://soundtrack.cafe24.com/single/TheBridgeontheRiverKwai.asf
 
@stupidumboy

Do not focus on only POWs' ill-treatment.

The units in battlefront was composed of people from the same town or city in order to raise the morale.
However,it was not easy to compose the units of the Korean soldiers from the same town due to the number of them.
Although it is widely believed that Japan forced the Korean to fight against the Alles,
the conscription introduced in 1944 and the war ended during their training.
So the Korean soldier who went abroad were volunteer soldiers and they were about 20,000 people.
They did not have enough number to compose the unit which fight in battlefront.
And also Japanese Army underestimated the Korean soldiers' ability to fight.
So,the Korean soldiers were allocated mainly to support units.

And one of support units had to treat the POWs.
Not every Korean had to do dirty works.
And not every dirty works was done by the Korean.
It could happen without any intention of using the Korean for dirty works.

BTW, taking care of the POWs was not dirty work.
Ill treatment was not work.
Only torture was dirty work,wasn't it?
However,I don't know any cases that the Korean tortured the POWs during WWII.
Because ,in japan,it is a kind of taboo to criticize the Korean for things related to WWII for normal people.
Whilst "right wingers" just believe the official report about the ill-treatment,which says that many Koreans secretly ill-treated the POWs.
So I could not find the sources.
Do you have any sources of torture done by the Korean?
 
anybody started a thread to ask the question the other way round?
 
@ urecco

You can read what happend inside the POW camp from the book what I showed by the link above. The Korean book though.

The fact(that many dirty works such as torturing were forcefully demanded on Korean prison guards' hands) is also well known to many people who have interets in world war history and informations.


By the way as you probably already know ,the Koreans were mainly laboures.
The conscription was applied to Koreans from 1944-about 200,000 Koreans were conscripted and some were used for the shield to the bullet in Okinawa.

But think of that -during the wartime -usually the militarymen and civilians are divided -the Koreans were hard laboures near the balltlefield -they have nothing to defend them and ignorant how to react under the enemy's attack.
At least militarymen can defend themselves and know how to react to the enemy's attack.

In palau -many old native people still remember how Korean laboures were suffered and dead by the aids.
 
Sorry for late replying.

I think that the 200,000 laboures were not civilians.they were soldiers.
They might not have been able to defend themselves,but it was because they had not finished their training.
What is the critisizable point?
Of course I don't mean Japaneese Army was perfect.
Korean people seem to think every sad or evil things were due to Japanese.

About the torture.Please give me a website written in English.

@jerry4
I started to ask the questions.

Many Japanese don't have strong negative opinion aginast Korea,besides WC 2002.
However some people have it and it's due to the history.
In that people's view,the Korean History books are crappy.
Aparently,It never tells about what they don't want to teach such as Treaty of Shimonoseki or the reason of why they built the Gate of Independence.
And Korean govement have still been hiding Japan-South Korea claim and an economic assistance agreement.

I think the view of the history is strongly connected to the feeling of some Japanese.
I am not sure if I should make new thread or not.
 
This is coming out of a 100% south korean........


I love Japan, and everything about it.
 
The original poster, Canadian_Kor asked about the modern Japanese' feelings toward the Koreans.

Judging from the enormous popularity of the Korean soap operas shown on Japanese TV, and everything else that make up the current "Kankoku Boom," I'd say the Japanese have more interest in Korea than does any other nationality.
 
Don't worry, Wataru. Some people just want to foment discord. You are wise not to be affected. Ignore with a gentle heart, and it doesn't exist. Keep up your passion for Japanese studies in all its wonderful possibilities !
 
Leroy_Brown said:
Judging from the enormous popularity of the Korean soap operas shown on Japanese TV, and everything else that make up the current "Kankoku Boom," I'd say the Japanese have more interest in Korea than does any other nationality.

Yes, that's a very radical change of direction (since the World Cup ?), but that is mostly limited to young people (esp. female fans of Yon-samaaa ).
 
竹島 or 독도

S. Koreans Protest Japan's Claim to Dokdo Islets
South Koreans are rallying to protest Japan's claim to the South Korean islets of Dokdo.
Interesting ones:

Seoul Assemblyman Held in Shimane, after Trying to Cut Finger
This person would have been shot dead instantly when taking out the boxcutter in public if it were in the United States.
No chance for self-mutilation, police usually take knife-wielding as an assault attempt.

Pyromaniacs
Nothing new about burning flags. It is actually against South Korean Penal Code Article 109; they have been doing that for decades anyway.

More Google News
Spectacular rage for whatever the local assembly of a mere rural prefecture came up with.

Spontaneous combustion, links here here and here
Police immediately extinguished the fire and took him to a hospital anyway. And photos show that paint thinner was not poured on this street performer's head/face before torching, suggesting no determination for real self-immolation.

One more, "There Is No Takeshima," Dokdo's Rallying Cry
About 80 people, including members of the KSRA and the junior chamber of the Gyeongbuk Province, held a rally around the pier and denounced Japan's scheme while burning a figure of Japanese Prime Minister Junichiro Koizumi.
Burning figures of Shimane assemblymen might perhaps make sense, but the prime minister has nothing to do with a prefectural ordinance. Do they ever realize that the world might feel the burning figure of an unrelated person to be a little less civilized?

The biggest problem is that the public seems to feel nothing wrong with this kind of protest.
South Korea already has de facto control of the area. Therefore the wise choice would be, to ignore the ordinance and keep occupying the islets for a few more decades quietly in order to get better chances for the claim to be accepted internationally.
Attention-seeking behavior at this point leads to nothing but spotlighting the claim and reasoning of the other party.
In other words, they are defeating themselves by advertising the dispute to the world.

Shimane prefecture page
Takeshima Day Ordinance
 
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So, korean soldiers rape japanese women, burn their homes, put them in a labor camp and kill any japanese who resist... then have their korean children or grand children to deal with japanese people with "it was not me but my father's" attitude? then it should be perfectly OK with japanese peope right?
 
It's so stupid to argue over all the details what happend between japan and korea during the first half century of 1900s. You should get THE big picture. The simple fact is, Japan colonized Korea against Korean peoples will. (If some one says that there were some korean's who asked for it, then you are digging details to cloud the big picture) Once in human history there was a time when a stronger nation colonized other nation by force and take advatange of colonized nation to their own good. And we know now that was simply a crime and shouldn't have happened.

You don't need to show how a nation forced their colonized nation's people to change their name in a certain way to show how you became a victim. And also you don't need to ask for a real proof for that to admit your gulity. Why? It doesn't take such tiny proofs to know who was the criminal and who was the victim. How can a nation colonize their neighbor without any wrong doings?

Think about this. Why do we call it colonization but not unification? what does that word imply to you?
 

what happened i korea will never be simply OK, but i must ask, what do you expect to happen, then? the attitude is not ok, but that's what happens to the descendants of those who commited the atrocites, they feel that shouldn't have to pay for the sins of the fathers. do you want for the next 10 generations the japanese stay on their knees in repentance? ☝
 
対馬

名無し said:
Masan City Stakes Claim over Taemado

Although they might feel proud of this reflex reiteration, the rest of the world finds that assemblymen democratically elected by Masan people seemingly believe:

窶「 Lee Jong-mu's Tsushima invasion in 1419 is perfectly fine, while evil Toyotomi Hideyoshi's peninsula invasions in 1592 and 1597 are unforgivable to this day and forever.
窶「 Definition of "territory" can go as insane as "all your Europe are belong to France, becauju Napolテゥon once conquered it all in the past."

No one in the city assembly seems to realize that it gives Japan an excuse that the national administrative cannot make interventions on an ordinance of a local autonomy.

More links: here here


Tsushima
more info
 

A sincere apology from the Japanese "government" not from their "kids". Not something like "We, Japan feel so sorry for what happend between 2 countries in the past" but something like "We sincerely applogize for our crime against Korea'"

Why can't the japanese goverment say clearly like this and instead bother to come up with a nonsense like this? Do you see the big difference between these 2 sentences? Someone rape your daughter and say to you like "I feel sorry for what happend between your daughter and me" and would you accept this as a sincere applogy? What would you prefer bewteen "maybe i did something bad to your daughter." and "Yes, I did rape your daughter and will do anything I can to pay for this"

Judging by the way the japanese goverment say on this matter, they feel no guilty for what they did and they feel no need to applogize.

In fact, it's not right to blame their kids for father's sin. The problem is, the father is hiding his ugly past from his kids. And since those kids does not know what their father did to their neighbors, they can't build a friendship with kids from next doors. You see why most young japanese people keep saying "Why neighbors hate us? Why can't I make friends in this town?" Eventually they get frustrated, and yell like this, "WHAT THE **** DID I DO TO YOU?" Here's another problem. At the same time they also should ask their father "WHAT THE **** DID YOU DO TO THEM?"

If you are a good father, and you are in this situation, you would visit your neighbors and applogize and ask for help from them so that your kids can have some friend in the villege. This is what a normal father would do if he really cares his child. If the japanese goverment truly want to build a good relationship with their neighbors, especially for their own young generations, they should tell the true past history.

And , yes it could go 10 generations or even more if the japanese goverment keeps the current attitude for the next 10 generations. This is not suprising at all. If you and the criminal who raped your daughter have to live next to each other for the next 10 generations, and the criminal leave what he did to your daughter as their proud family legend down to his descendents, I see no reason to this grudge between two family will disappear even after 10 generations.

For your "that's what happens to the descendants of those who commited the atrocites". This is like you saying to your "was raped daughter" that "that's what happens when you live next door from an evil. so accept it and forget it sweetheart". Will you really talk to your daughter like this?

If you say yes, I am waisting my time with you here.
 
Hello, well i dont know much about this, because i havnt been in japan yet (3months to goo..... ) but my girlfriend had 2 korean boyfriends before, and another good japanese friend of mine is having a korean girlfriend , so for as far as i know, modern japanese around me, doenst have problems with it! me neither ( im dutch why should i? GUUS HIDINK IS FAMOUS WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA)

greetings Baka dutch
 
my closed japaness friends told me that korea is a small part of united states of japan.
 
senator said:
my closed japaness friends told me that korea is a small part of united states of japan.
Again, I have to approve !
Senator, you should seriously consider going into the entertainment business ....
 
Personally I have nothing against koreans. Except those that are anti-Japan and I also don't like North-Korea communist regime.
 
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