How do modern Japanese feel about Koreans?

canadian_kor · 19 Jun 2004

Hello,

I am new member on this forum. I am a Korean Canadian and I was wondering what is the general attitude of modern Japanese towards Koreans. The reason I ask is that many Koreans that I have met still hold anomisity towards Japanese people due to the past (some of which I don't understand). However, I am not one of these people (in fact, one of my closest friends is Japanese). So, the question would be: would Japanese people have something against befriending Koreans or even intermarrying with them? I know that I have heard enough about how Koreans feel about the Japanese, I just wanted some input from the other side. Thanks.

Buddha Smoker · 19 Jun 2004

Funny you should mention this. I'm taking this Japanese history class at the moment and we are discussing topics like this.

A lot of Japanese have no idea why the Koreans have this animosity for them. Japanese like just about everybody but the government has censored Japanese history in its books and school so therefore they have no idea. The older generations know but you will find the younger generations asking...what are they talking about? Did that really happen?

I'm sure you can see the confusion already and the problems that arise.

Golgo_13 · 19 Jun 2004

When I was a kid growing up in Japan, I never heard of the word "Kim Chi". I certainly never ate it. Today, it's commonly eaten all over Japan.

There's a Korea Town, I believe, in the Tsuruhashi section of Osaka.

There are Koreans playing in Japanese pro baseball. In show business, there have been films and other projects co-produced by both countries and starring entertainers from both.

If there's still any animosity between the two groups, it's the younger generation of Koreans against the Japanese. I find that this is more prevalent in N. America.

Many Orientals growing up in N. America develop a sense of self-hatred of one's own race--never wanting to date or marry another Oriental, etc.--and hating Japanese is a very convenient excuse to hate someone who is Oriental, and still be "acceptable".

misa.j · 20 Jun 2004

All of the Koreans I have met through the ESL program I took were very kind, educated, and openmided. They always invited me to dinners at their house, a lot of them became really good friends of mine. I miss them so much.

One of them asked me what I thought about the awful thing that Japanese people did to their ancestors; I didn't know what to say. I only knew vaguely about the event which was embarassing.

Foxtrot Uniform · 21 Jun 2004

I have four Korean friends, but thats because I go to am international school, but so far, I haven't seen any discrimination against Koreans, and personally, I think modern Japanese people think of Koreans as our frineds to the West. The only prejudice I know of was from my great grandmother who lived in the World War II era and she hated Koreans. Now she's dead, and these hostile feelings from the war have almost completly disappeared, well except towards North Korea. Well, the negative feelings are more towards the government. Oh, by the way, I love kimchi.

Golgo_13 · 22 Jun 2004

misa.j said:
All of the Koreans I have met through the ESL program I took were very kind, educated, and openmided. They always invited me to dinners at their house, a lot of them became really good friends of mine. I miss them so much.

One of them asked me what I thought about the awful thing that Japanese people did to their ancestors; I didn't know what to say. I only knew vaguely about the event which was embarassing.

When will these people get it through to their heads that it was not the average japanese citizen who did those "awful things" but the Imperial Military.

Jewish people don't go up to every German they see and ask what they think of the awful things the Germans did to them during WWII. They know it was not the average German--it was Hitler and the Nazis. There's a huge difference. Same thing for Japan.

When and if you're asked that again, you don't have to answer it. You can just say you have no comment on it because you weren't there and you didn't commit those acts. And don't be embarrassed!

Why don't cha ask what the person thinks about the awful things the North Koreans have done?

canadian_kor · 22 Jun 2004

Golgo_13 said:
Jewish people don't go up to every German they see and ask what they think of the awful things the Germans did to them during WWII. They know it was not the average German--it was Hitler and the Nazis. There's a huge difference. Same thing for Japan.

Sorry Golgo, but I have to disagree with you here. A lot of average Germans during the Nazi era were anti-Semetic Aryan supremacists. Look at the fever a lot of "average" Germans had during that time with the idea that the Jews were the problem of the world and that the Nordic Aryans had some divine commission to take the helm of the world and eradicate every vestiges of Semitism. Hitler did not just get support from his close cadres and major corporations. Look at the rallies and all the "heils" that the average German (and even non-German invadees) gave to their leader.

Golgo_13 · 22 Jun 2004

You haven't answered about the awful things North Korean communists have done to the entire Korean Peninsula with Maoist China's help.

Do the South Koreans have even a millionth of an iota of a grudge against the Chinese?

bossel · 22 Jun 2004

Golgo_13 said:
If there's still any animosity between the two groups, it's the younger generation of Koreans against the Japanese. I find that this is more prevalent in N. America.

I don't know about the US, but what I heard is that it's actually the young Koreans who don't have such an issue with the Japanese. They still feel that Japan has not admitted everything they did during occupation & sincerely apologized for it, but they don't blame the average Japanese.

When will these people get it through to their heads that it was not the average japanese citizen who did those "awful things" but the Imperial Military.

Well the question was about "the awful thing that Japanese people did to their ancestors". For what I know, most Japanese soldiers were Japanese people, weren't they?

Jewish people don't go up to every German they see and ask what they think of the awful things the Germans did to them during WWII. They know it was not the average German--it was Hitler and the Nazis. There's a huge difference. Same thing for Japan.

Oh well, that depends. There are those who do & there are those who don't.

Why don't cha ask what the person thinks about the awful things the North Koreans have done?

Maybe because Misa is Japanese & not North Korean?
Who or what is "cha"?

misa.j · 22 Jun 2004

I am a Japanese, and I am embarassed what Japanese people did to Koreans during that time. It was a very inhuman thing to do.

And the thing, I think, that's unfair is Japanese education try to cover up the mistakes that were made which could mislead people, or cause misunderstanding such as what is happening right now.

BTW, when you meet people from other countries, you are an ambassador from your culture/country. What kind of relationship could you expect from someone from another country if you demanded that they account for their country's mistakes? Any decent person will feel very sorry for mistakes commited by their country, even if it happened in the past, so I stand by my comments.

Golgo_13 · 22 Jun 2004

misa.j said:
I am a Japanese, and I am embarassed what Japanese people did to Koreans during that time. It was a very inhuman thing to do.

And the thing, I think, that's unfair is Japanese education try to cover up the mistakes that were made which could mislead people, or cause misunderstanding such as what is happening right now.

BTW, when you meet people from other countries, you are an ambassador from your culture/country. What kind of relationship could you expect from someone from another country if you demanded that they account for their country's mistakes? Any decent person will feel very sorry for mistakes commited by their country, even if it happened in the past, so I stand by my comments.

Since you live in the U.S. now, are you also embarrassed about what the white Europeans did to the American Indians to take their land?

I went to grade school in the U.S. Unlike slavery, which is covered in the textbooks, I never saw anywhere in the history books about the massacres of Indians and the "Only good Indian is a dead Indian" attitude of the frontiersmen of the 19th century. I learned as an adult about how the Cherokees were forced to March from other states to Oklahoma, not in schools.

bossel said:
Oh well, that depends. There are those who do & there are those who don't.

Aside from the Jews, do the young French and Poles (and those from other countries in Europe that Germany invaded during WWII) still show animosity towards today's German people for their ancestors having invaded their countries and committing atrocities?

canadian_kor · 22 Jun 2004

misa.j said:
I am a Japanese, and I am embarassed what Japanese people did to Koreans during that time. It was a very inhuman thing to do.

It is very commendable to admit that what your people did in the past was wrong. I think a lot of Koreans who overreact against the Japanese because of the past should look closely in the mirror and realize that they aren't so perfect themselves.

Soviet Soldier · 22 Jun 2004

Now they just want to kill each other because of this tiny island call Dokdo... I say bloodshed all over again, and fine with me.

kara · 23 Jun 2004

canadian_kor said:
It is very commendable to admit that what your people did in the past was wrong. I think a lot of Koreans who overreact against the Japanese because of the past should look closely in the mirror and realize that they aren't so perfect themselves.

Her(misa.j) attitude / reaction was very typical as ordinary Japanese so you can trust it in that meaning. That will never be a minority opinion. However, if you ask about "modern" Japanese, some important changes in politics (esp. about US-KOR relationship) and technics (esp. spread of the internet) may cause a drastic shift for the Japanese view of Korea and Koreans(and other things).

If you can read Korean, you can confirm the germinations with your own eyes (esp. in their history forums):

일본친구와 감성을 나누는 즐거운 세상! - 고재팬

ÀÎÁ¶ÀÌÀçÆÒ :: ³×ÀÌ¹ö

Buddha Smoker said:
Funny you should mention this. I'm taking this Japanese history class at the moment and we are discussing topics like this.

A lot of Japanese have no idea why the Koreans have this animosity for them. Japanese like just about everybody but the government has censored Japanese history in its books and school so therefore they have no idea. The older generations know but you will find the younger generations asking...what are they talking about? Did that really happen?

I'm sure you can see the confusion already and the problems that arise.

確かに日本には教科書検定制度がありますが、内容がおかしくなければ問題ない訳でしょう？
で、どこの社の何年生向けの教科書の何年度版の何頁のどの記述内容がおかしかったんでしょうか？是非後学のために教えてくださいよ、学生さん。

それと、韓国にも検定制度と類似の制度があり、あちらでは国史に関しては（選択の余地すらなく）国定教科書を使って教えているようなんですが、やはり一種の政府による検閲制度である以上、その内容は信頼すべきでないと考えざるを得ないのでしょうか？それに、いまどき韓国の教科書なんざ日本でも市販してますし、そもそも（何処の国にせよ）教科書を読んだ程度で歴史が判ったつもりになる、他国民に説教して聞かせる資格があると考えるのも素敵な話ですよね。

と言っても、日本の教科書が偏向していないとか、情報満載だとか、そういう主張はしていませんよ。ただ、偏向の方向や情報過少の理由が貴方の想像とは全然違うんだということを言いたいんです。

大した知識も無い癖にすぐに日本を叩きたがる人達は日本を単細胞生物か何かとイメージしがちですが、これでどうしてけっこう多様性があるんですよ。アメリカとロシア（正確にはソビエトの亡霊ですかね）、中国に台湾に北朝鮮と韓国、そして貴方のイメージするような日本の国粋主義者がエゴをぶつけあって（もちろん、発言力は一定じゃないですよ）教科書を作ったらどうなると思いますか？それが日本の歴史教科書の現実だと思えば大して外れていませんよ。

それから、「古い世代は知っている」ですか。。。
日本で圧倒的に朝鮮/韓国嫌いが多いのは老人世代なんですが、彼らは色々と知っていたんでしょうね。「かつてはこんな差別があったんだよ」「こんな被害を与えたんだよ」という方向の話しか教科書には載っていなかったので（笑）、「爺さんたちはなんて酷い世代だったんだろう。まるで理解できないよ」なあんて考えてる小中学生ばっかりでしたよ、自分たちの頃は。やはり老人の知恵は大切にしないといけませんね。

Golgo_13 · 23 Jun 2004

canadian_kor said:
It is very commendable to admit that what your people did in the past was wrong. I think a lot of Koreans who overreact against the Japanese because of the past should look closely in the mirror and realize that they aren't so perfect themselves.

Thank you!

I am an individual first before I am a representative of a nation, culture or race. As an individual, I can only feel bad about what happened, just like I feel bad about the innocent people who die everyday somewhere on earth.

But other than that, am I responsible or guilty of anything that my ancesters committed? Hell no. Am I supposed to apologize to everyone who still hold animosity? I think not. No different from white people in America today not having to feel RESPONSIBLE for slavery.

So why should I go on putting up with rude or hostile attitude from some who still hold grudges? Believe me, I have.

BTW, people are starving in N. Korea everyday. Are the Japanese of today more horrible than the regime of the communist dictator of N. Korea?

canadian_kor · 23 Jun 2004

Golgo_13 said:
Thank you!

I am an individual first before I am a representative of a nation, culture or race. As an individual, I can only feel bad about what happened, just like I feel bad about the innocent people who die everyday somewhere on earth.

But other than that, am I responsible or guilty of anything that my ancesters committed? Hell no. Am I supposed to apologize to everyone who still hold animosity? I think not. No different from white people in America today not having to feel RESPONSIBLE for slavery.

So why should I go on putting up with rude or hostile attitude from some who still hold grudges? Believe me, I have.

BTW, people are starving in N. Korea everyday. Are the Japanese of today more horrible than the regime of the communist dictator of N. Korea?

I have to admit Golgo that I get frustrated and tired when my fellow Koreans tend to always get angered about the atrocities of the Japanese and not the atrocities of the North Korean government against its own people. Just because your own government/people commit atrocities against you doesn't mean it is less evil than if some foreign power committed the same atrocities. A sibling killing you is just as bad as a next-door neighbour killing you (or probably worse).

I am very saddened when I hear/read reports that come out of North Korea these days. Mass starvation, social decay due to economic problems, and brutal repressions. Unfortunately, people up in North Korea have no idea what the outside world is like and think they are living in a virtual utopia. It angers and sickens me to know that a government that is supposed to take care of its people use Marxist rhetoric to fool the people so that they can stay at the top and exploit the masses for their own personal ends.

Golgo_13 · 23 Jun 2004

Thank you once again!

Golgo_13 · 23 Jun 2004

-

Those Iraqi rebels had no mercy for that poor Korean man. . . .

bossel · 23 Jun 2004

Golgo_13 said:
Aside from the Jews, do the young French and Poles (and those from other countries in Europe that Germany invaded during WWII) still show animosity towards today's German people for their ancestors having invaded their countries and committing atrocities?

As with the Jews, some do, some don't.

The greatest issue with the Germans seemingly have young Dutch (although the Netherlands suffered far less than Poland). There is still a lot of resentment in Holland, although it seems to be on the decrease. When you park your car with a German number plate somewhere in the Netherlands you have quite a chance to find some new scratches when you return. The closer to the German border the less likely this is to happen, though.

Funny thing is, the German ambassador to Holland doesn't suffer from that problem, since he has Dutch number plates. But a Dutch correspondent in Germany gets his car scratched ever so often when he returns to Holland, for he has German number plates.

In Poland is also resentment against Germany & the Germans, but this is only partly because of the war. I think, it's to a great deal related to fear of German economical dominance.

Regarding France I don't know so much, but I think the French have the least resentments. Maybe owing to the close cooperation in the EU.

Perhaps the greatest chance to be called a Nazi just for being German is in England (that suffered the least, since it never was occupied). But I don't really know in how far this is war-related. It may just be a general anti-German, anti-continental or anti-EU attitude, & this is the easiest (& dumbest) way to upset or insult Germans.

In general the difficulties are minor, I think. The European reconciliation seems to be much farther developed than the Asian one.

canadian_kor said:
Unfortunately, people up in North Korea have no idea what the outside world is like and think they are living in a virtual utopia. It angers and sickens me to know that a government that is supposed to take care of its people use Marxist rhetoric to fool the people so that they can stay at the top and exploit the masses for their own personal ends.

Oh well, I don't think that really many of them believe to live in some kind of utopia. Else there wouldn't be so many refugees in China.
I also think, that it's more than just propaganda that prolongs the reign of the oh so beloved leader. Propaganda alone wouldn't keep you under control if you see your children starve.

canadian_kor · 23 Jun 2004

bossel said:
In general the difficulties are minor, I think. The European reconciliation seems to be much farther developed than the Asian one.

I agree. It also has to do with the fact that Koreans tend to be more passionate and emotionally explosive when it comes to sensitive issues like these. Europeans I've encountered do not express the same level of disdain towards the Germans as the Koreans do against the Japanese.

Maciamo · 23 Jun 2004

canadian_kor said:
So, the question would be: would Japanese people have something against befriending Koreans or even intermarrying with them?

That really depends on the people. Some Japanese openly discriminate even against 3rd generation Koreans in Japan, but I guess that lots of young people are open-minded and wouldn't mind marrying a Korean (or other foreigner for that matter). I personally know 3 Japanese-Korean couples (everytime the girl is Korean).

At least the Japan-Korea relationship are improving, with the world cup, some Japanese-Korean dramas and movies, etc. Today, they talked quite a lot about the Korean hostage executed in Iraq on Japanese TV, almost as much as if he had been Japanese. Usually, they almost don't talk about non-Japanese hostages (Ameericans, Italians...).

Golgo_13 · 24 Jun 2004

My optometrist is a Korean-American lady who has a Japanese last name.

She's not ashamed to be married to a Japanese and take on his last name

Golgo_13 · 25 Jun 2004

-----------------

News like this never helps:

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/getarticle.pl5?nn20040625a3.htm

ashuri2 · 25 Jun 2004

Memory can die hard. It's always easier to point the finger at a different country instead of one's own (about why some older Koreans still harbour animosity towards japan but not n. Korea). Also, golgo, what state did you attend school in? I learned of the treatment of native Americans almost before I learned the facts of slavery...

Golgo_13 · 26 Jun 2004

ashuri2 said:
also, golgo, whaat state did you attend school in? i learned of the treatment of native americans almost beore i learned the facts of slavery...

In New York City. I went grades 3 through 12. Never heard in the classroom or saw anything in the textbook about the Indians except 2 pro baseball teams and 2 pro football teams have Indian names. But you have to realize I'm older than you. I find "Redskins" extremely offensive. If it were "Detroit Darkskins", something would be done about it right away. I'm so glad both baseball and football teams named "Browns" no longer exist.

Until 1981, there was a small town in Illinois called Pekin. Their high school's teams' name was . . . you won't believe this . . . "Chinks"! I **** you not. I was in college in Iowa at the time, and a professor of mine followed the lawsuit that sought to force the school to change its name. The townspeople had the usual comments: "It's just a name." "I'm proud to be a Pekin Chink!" Yeah right, go have your face surgically changed to look like a real Chinese and see if you like having to deal with prejudices. The town did change the name to "Dragons".

There have also been towns in the U.S. named "Canton" which also called themselves "Chinks"

How do modern Japanese feel about Koreans?

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