How do I say why (not doushite or naze) in Japanese?

Angel Valis · 15 Jul 2010

Hi, I was searching for an answer to this question when I stumbled upon this forum, so here goes.
Like it says in my thread title, I'm trying to figure out how to say why in Japanese. Not the question word why, as in, "Why are you doing that?" But more like, "I don't know of a reason why it should be fogotten."
I can create two sentences that contain the pieces of this single thought:
「理ゆうを分からない。」
"riyuu wo wakaranai."
「それをわすれているのほうがいい。」
"sore wo wasureteiru nohougaii."
But I'm not sure how to combine them into a single thought.
I know how to use kara and node to give reasons, like so:
"Because I have an exam tomorrow I must study"
「明日試験が有るから、勉強しなくちゃいけない。」
"ashita shiken ga aru kara, benkyoushinakuchaikenai."
But I'm really stuck on how to form this particular structure.
Thanks in advance for any help you may give me with this.
よろしくおねがいします。

Toritoribe · 15 Jul 2010

There are two ways of saying it.

1) to use the indirect interrogative clause なぜ/どうして～か

なぜ忘れられるべき（なの）かわからない。

2) to use the adjectival clause ～（という）+ 理由

忘れられるべき（だという）理由がわからない。

Angel Valis · 15 Jul 2010

Thank you so much for replying.
This is the first time I've seen べき, but I looked it up in my dictionary and so now I know it means "should". Does べき always appear after the potential form of a verb? Also, what is the なの in parenthesis in the first example? In the second example, what exactly does the という do?
Sorry if I'm asking a lot of questions, but I want to understand, as well as know, how to use these structures.

Toritoribe · 15 Jul 2010

Angel Valis said:
Does べき always appear after the potential form of a verb?

No, べき is used with the present, non-polite form of verbs, i.e., 忘れるべき, 忘れさせるべき(causative) are OK, but 忘れたべき(past), 忘れますべき(polite) are incorrect.
Ah, plus, this 忘れられる is not the potential but the passive.;-)

Angel Valis said:
Also, what is the なの in parenthesis in the first example?

This の is often called "explanatory/insisting の". You can think な as the adjectival form of the copula だ.

The following thread might be helpful.
The "redundant" "n" before "da" and "desu"

Angel Valis said:
In the second example, what exactly does the という do?

koto & to iu in "to iu koto", "to iu imi", "to iu no wa" etc

nice gaijin · 15 Jul 2010

Hm, I'd probably say
それを忘れる理由が見つけられない/考えられない。
I can't find/think of a reason to forget that.

You can use other verbs, depending on what you're trying to get across. The key point here is that you're using the verb clause 忘れる to modify 理由 to create the meaning of "reason to forget."

edit: and then I see a whole conversation has taken place in the meantime, haha

Angel Valis · 15 Jul 2010

Ahh thank you, I've not covered passive form yet, so that explains my confusion about that.

I knew that の could be the casual form of んです, but I didn't recognize it in this usage. However, I'm still confused about the な being だ, is べき a な adjective as well as a particle? In that case I could see it needing な before んです.

I also still don't quite understand the usage of という. In your example 天丼という料理 "the cuisine Tendon", it seems that という could be replaced with possessive の to much the same effect. I was also curious if you could explain the difference between the inside and outside relations, I don't feel like I quite understand.

At times like this I feel like I haven't learned as much Japanese as I should have. I've taken four semesters at college, and I've not covered any of this (other than ndesu). My major is Japanese Language and Culture, and I truly want to learn the language well.

Nice Gaijin, I wasn't aware that you can use a clause to qualify a noun with the meaning of "to do something with the noun". I've learned to say things like きのう買った本 and 母がくれた本, but それをわすれる理ゆう seems a bit different in meaning than the others、or I could just be thinking about it too hard lol.

Toritoribe · 15 Jul 2010

Angel Valis said:
I knew that の could be the casual form of んです, but I didn't recognize it in this usage. However, I'm still confused about the な being だ, is べき a な adjective as well as a particle? In that case I could see it needing な before んです.

べき acts as a kind of noun(more accurately to say, it's originally from rentaikei(the adjectival form) of the classical auxiliary verb べし).

Angel Valis said:
I also still don't quite understand the usage of という. In your example 天丼という料理 "the cuisine Tendon", it seems that という could be replaced with possessive の to much the same effect.

No, in the apposition の, the order of words should be "categoryのname", as in "友人の山形", "料理の天丼". Also, という often connotes that the speaker thinks that the listener wouldn't know the name, something like "(as you might not know) one of my friends, Yamagata."

Angel Valis said:
I was also curious if you could explain the difference between the inside and outside relations, I don't feel like I quite understand.

きのう買った本 and 母がくれた本 are exactly "the inside relation."

きのう買った本
the book I bought yesterday

きのう（その）本を買った。
I bought the book yesterday.

僕がきのう本を買ったという噂[うわさ]
the rumor that I bought the book yesterday

As you can see in the second example sentence above, 本 is the object of 買った in the first one. Whereas in the last one, 噂 is not the constituent of 僕がきのう本を買った, but the clause is the content of 噂. This is "the outside relation."

Angel Valis · 15 Jul 2010

I think I understand now.

So, という is used when qualifying a noun which isn't involved in the qualifier clause. 買った本 is possible because it can be rewritten in a way that 本 is directly attached to the verb, 本を買った.

Whereas 本を買ったうわさ is not possible, because the only way to rewrite the sentence without qualifying うわさ is to make うわさ itself the subject of the sentence, such as うわさは本を買った. Does that explanation make sense?

I'm not sure that I understand the full usuage of という as you explained in the other thread, but I believe that I at least understand how it relates to my initial question.

By the way, is という ever written with the kanji 言 or is it like 行 in ～なくちゃいけません and 有 in ある which are usually written without the kanji?

I would also like to thank you very much for your help and patience.
どうもありがとうございます。

Half-n-Half · 16 Jul 2010

I think という can also be translated roughly as "called" for example, ユーチューブというサイトは世界中に有名です。 The website called Youtube is famous all over the world.

Tae Kim explains という pretty thoroughly here: Defining and Describing – Learn Japanese

and in fact a lot of his guide is pretty thorough. I recommend you check it out, it helped me a lot.

Toritoribe · 16 Jul 2010

Yeah, "called" would be appropriate for "specific name という category".

Angel Valis said:
So, という is used when qualifying a noun which isn't involved in the qualifier clause. 買った本 is possible because it can be rewritten in a way that 本 is directly attached to the verb, 本を買った.
Whereas 本を買ったうわさ is not possible, because the only way to rewrite the sentence without qualifying うわさ is to make うわさ itself the subject of the sentence, such as うわさは本を買った. Does that explanation make sense?

That's right.

Angel Valis said:
By the way, is という ever written with the kanji 言 or is it like 行 in ～なくちゃいけません and 有 in ある which are usually written without the kanji?

I think という is more common, but と言う is also acceptable.

Glenn · 16 Jul 2010

I like と云う, personally.

Toritoribe · 16 Jul 2010

Definitely. 云 is used for "others' words/quotation/hearsay."

Angel Valis · 16 Jul 2010

Thank you all so much for your help on this.

I feel like I should have learned this by now. To be honest, we've not even covered using という to introduce yourself. We started simply using the construction, 「(私は)<名前>です」 , then recently moved on to using 「(私は)<名前>ともうします」.

Even asking what a word is in Japanese has followed 「<英語のたん語>は日本語でなんと言いますか」.

Once again, thank you all very much.

Glenn · 16 Jul 2010

There's a word 英単語, which covers the meaning of 英語の単語 in less space.

There's also 私は○○という者です for introducing yourself. Lots of times という can be thought of as a quote of some sort, so it's like "X called Y". That's probably a good starting point.

How do I say why (not doushite or naze) in Japanese?

Angel Valis

黒川

Toritoribe

松葉解禁

Angel Valis

黒川

Toritoribe

松葉解禁

nice gaijin

Resident Realist

Angel Valis

黒川

Toritoribe

松葉解禁

Angel Valis

黒川

Half-n-Half

先輩

Toritoribe

松葉解禁

Glenn

一切皆苦

Toritoribe

松葉解禁

Angel Valis

黒川

Glenn

一切皆苦

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