Help with a manga

Pikellaneous · 23 Apr 2015

I'm very new to the language and am studying raw manga to expand my vocabulary.
Could someone please explain the phrase "名の知れた" (na no shireta) to me. I know it means "well-known" but what is the purpose of の in this phrase?
I also need an explanation of "ようにして"
ありがとうございました

Toritoribe · 23 Apr 2015

の is used to indicate the subject in a modifying clause, similar to が.

Pikellaneous said:
I also need an explanation of "ようにして"

Please give us examples.

Pikellaneous · 24 Apr 2015

Toritoribe said:
の is used to indicate the subject in a modifying clause, similar to が.

Please give us examples.

Here's what I'm talking about. It's from a song: Uragiri no Yuuyake by Theatre Brook.
やっかいに絡みつく汗を
切り裂くようにして
yakkai ni karamitsuku ase o
kirisaku you ni shite

Could you go into more detail concerning の?
Literal Translations are welcome.

Toritoribe · 24 Apr 2015

Pikellaneous said:
Here's what I'm talking about. It's from a song: Uragiri no Yuuyake by Theatre Brook.
やっかいに絡みつく汗を
切り裂くようにして
yakkai ni karamitsuku ase o
kirisaku you ni shite

よう means "like /as if" there, as same as 歌うように.
ようだの英語・英訳 - 英和辞典・和英辞典 Weblio辞書

Pikellaneous said:
Could you go into more detail concerning の?
Literal Translations are welcome.

See the following thread.
Questions about a sentence. | Japan Forum
(Note: attributive clause = modifying clause)

the name is (widely) known
e.g.
名の知れた歌手
a singer whose name is (widely) known = a well-known singer

Pikellaneous · 24 Apr 2015

Thank you very much. I understand の now. Could you please expand on ようにして some examples and literal translations really help! I'll be sure to move to the Learner's Forum after this.

Mike Cash · 24 Apr 2015

Are you also using a textbook?

Starting a thread for each successive panel of a manga might be an indication that you need to learn the language a bit more before diving into reading.

Toritoribe · 24 Apr 2015

Pikellaneous said:
Could you please expand on ようにして

～ようにして can be used only for volitional verbs. That's the only difference from ように as "like / as if". (When it's used with a volitional verb, the meaning of ～ようにする changes to "to have/make something do".)

Pikellaneous · 25 Apr 2015

Mike Cash said:
Are you also using a textbook?

Starting a thread for each successive panel of a manga might be an indication that you need to learn the language a bit more before diving into reading.

Ack! You caught me! No, I don't have a textbook and I'm not in any classes. I have to depend on whatever online resources I can find and they simply don't cover everything. But, like I said I'm reading raws mostly for vocabulary and I get the kanji at the same time. What textbooks and online resources would you recommend?

Mike Cash · 25 Apr 2015

The Genki series (textbook, workbook, audio) is widely used and frequently recommended.

Now in return I'll ask you to lighten my burden of ignorance....What is a "raw" manga?

Pikellaneous · 25 Apr 2015

Mike Cash said:
What is a "raw" manga?

An untranslated japanese manga. Everyone in the Anime/Manga community calls them that. Sorry, I thought everyone knew that.

I've heard of Genki but it'll be a while before I can get them they're just SOOOO expensive!
All I have at my disposal is Jisho.org and Tae Kim's Complete Guide to Japanese. The latter covers only the most basic grammar the former is a dictionary, but not a very detailed one, but it's good for looking up kanji.

Toritoribe · 25 Apr 2015

So, does that mean you give up trying to understand the meaning of this clause?
Need some help with weird word usage | Japan Forum

WonkoTheSane · 25 Apr 2015

Pikellaneous said:
I've heard of Genki but it'll be a while before I can get them they're just SOOOO expensive!.

You're a teenager living in Texas... A day or so of doing yardwork for neighbors charging 5 bucks an hour buys you the book and workbook.

When I was your age I'd been working for five years, the last two years of that full time... I think you can probably handle a few hours of labor.

Pikellaneous · 25 Apr 2015

Toritoribe said:
So, does that mean you give up trying to understand the meaning of this clause?
Need some help with weird word usage | Japan Forum

I'll get to that in a little bit. Don't worry.

Pikellaneous · 25 Apr 2015

WonkoTheSane said:
You're a teenager living in Texas... A day or so of doing yardwork for neighbors charging 5 bucks an hour buys you the book and workbook.

When I was your age I'd been working for five years, the last two years of that full time... I think you can probably handle a few hours of labor.

That's not really the problem. I just need to fix my car first. It'll probably be another month before I can get the books I need.

Mike Cash · 25 Apr 2015

There are often used copies available on Amazon for less than you'd spend on one trip to McDonald's. Some unscrupulous people even search for pirated pdf versions on the internet.

I'm not familiar with the Anime/Manga community. I don't think anybody had even heard of them when I lived in the US. The whole idea of translated manga strikes me as somewhat odd.

lanthas · 25 Apr 2015

Mike Cash said:
The whole idea of translated manga strikes me as somewhat odd.

You'd be surprised. And it's not just scans that are translated by fans and distributed for free online; you can also buy actual physical manga booklets with translated text.

Pikellaneous: as you've probably noticed by now, translations may be differently worded than the original (sometimes out of necessity if a direct translation is not possible!), they may have a slightly different meaning, or they may be plain wrong. Also, manga (just like anime) often contains dialect which you really shouldn't try to understand before knowing how the standard language works.

Basically, put the manga aside for a while and start studying from a proper textbook as has already been suggested. It'll take years before you'll be able to read that stuff.

WonkoTheSane · 25 Apr 2015

Or, if what you're really interested in is manga, just enjoy it in English.

It won't be magically better in Japanese just because it's in Japanese.

Mike Cash · 5 May 2015

Nulambda said:
I would think raw manga/ anime would be a wonderful supplement for learning Japanese. However, I wouldn't use it as the main method.

As an aside, I had no clue people didn't know what raw manga was either.

Please don't post links to pirated material.

For those who encountered manga for the first time after coming to Japan and who are used to them only in Japanese, there just was never a need for a term to distinguish them from something else. I would have assumed "raw" manga to be those with violent or prurient subject matter.

Nulambda · 5 May 2015

Mike Cash said:
Please don't post links to pirated material.

ごめんなさい I didn't realize they were pirated.

nekojita · 5 May 2015

Anything that is a scan of printed material put up on a third-party site for free is not going to be legitimate. That should be obvious. (That includes 'raw' manga scans, btw). I've removed the post, please exercise more caution in future.

Our rules do permit short excerpts - e.g. a couple of panels of manga is fine if you're asking for help, or a couple of paragraphs from a book you're reading.

There are legitimate free online manga, one of the biggest players at the moment is comico (コミコ) - they make their money out of merchandise/line stamps, tankobons and anime versions of the more popular series.

Mike Cash · 6 May 2015

nekojita said:
Anything that is a scan of printed material put up on a third-party site for free is not going to be legitimate.

A notable exception would be the online resources at the National Diet Library. There are lots of scans of printed material available there, all out of copyright protection.

Digital Library from the Meiji Era
(There are post-Meiji materials as well)

Lots of historical audio resources online from them as well:

Historical Recordings Collection

nekojita · 6 May 2015

Point, although the crossover between that and people downloading illegal copies of Naruto or whatever is probably pretty slim.

アジア歴史資料センター is another interesting archive.

Help with a manga

後輩

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後輩

松葉解禁

後輩

骨も命も皆此の土地に埋めよう

松葉解禁

後輩

骨も命も皆此の土地に埋めよう

後輩

松葉解禁

先輩

後輩

後輩

骨も命も皆此の土地に埋めよう

先輩

骨も命も皆此の土地に埋めよう

Kouhai

先輩

骨も命も皆此の土地に埋めよう

先輩

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