Help on origins of kanjis ...

Meiji Lythtis · 8 Apr 2005

I've been looking for the origins of these two kanjis but I haven't been lucky, could anyone help me please? What I need is the origin, the evolution from how they started to how they took their final form.

If anyone could explain it I'd be grateful, but also a link would be useful, thanks in advance.

Little sister (imouto)
妹 (いもうと)

Little brother (otouto)
弟 (おとうと)

bossel · 8 Apr 2005

Meiji Lythtis said:
Little sister (imouto)
妹 (いもうと)

Little brother (otouto)
弟 (おとうと)

Chinese origins, I suppose. In Mandarin "little sister" is 妹妹 (meimei), while "little brother" is 弟弟 (didi).

妹 can be deconstructed into 女 nü (female) & 未 wei (not yet?) as some kind of phonetic element, I think.
Don't know about 弟, though.

Meiji Lythtis · 8 Apr 2005

Thanks bossel, that's really useful.

I also need the idea of what those kanjis mean, for example, for 書, it represents the 5 fingers holding a brush and writing something on a paper. If it's possible some pictures showing it, it'd be better. If nobody knows, with examples like what bossel said would be also very useful.

Again, thanks in advance.

bossel · 8 Apr 2005

Meiji Lythtis said:
I also need the idea of what those kanjis mean, for example, for 書, it represents the 5 fingers holding a brush and writing something on a paper.

You're welcome.

I don't remember where I've seen it, but if I remember correctly, 女 has its origin in showing a kneeling working woman (I remember a series of pics showing the development of the character, but damned if I know if it was in a book or online). Another interpretation I've read is that it symbolises a woman's breasts, but IMO that's a bit too simple (but who am I to judge).

未 is related to 木 (mu = tree) & probably means "buds on a tree."

cacawate · 8 Apr 2005

The kanji that resembles a woman's breasts would be 母（はは） for mother. As for 妹 and 弟, bossel is right. 女 (woman) and 未 (immature). 弟 is a bit more difficult. It seems to have come from an order in which people binded weapons, like stakes or halberds. The binding is the 弓 and the halberd/stake I'm not able to type but is the right side of 代. In Chinese it can still be used to mean order, but obviously in Japanese it doesn't any more. Order has been replaced by 第 (See the similarity). 弟 then was used from the idea of order in the family, sons other then the eldest.

This info was learned from Kenneth Henshall's "A Guide to Remembering Japanese Characters".

-Jeff

Elizabeth · 8 Apr 2005

This info was learned from Kenneth Henshall's "A Guide to Remembering Japanese Characters".

A great resource, isn't it ? One book I try keeping within arms reach as often as possible. :note:

And one thing more on 女、which is described particularly as a woman with outstretched arms and to me at least looks more like she's sitting cross-legged rather than bending or kneeling ?

Glenn · 8 Apr 2005

I think it was supposed to represent a pregnant woman. Well, that's what just popped into my head, anyway. Take it for what it's worth.

Meiji Lythtis · 15 Apr 2005

Thank you everyone, it was very very helpful indeed and I'm really pleased.

Just one last question, it's about the kanjis 天 (てん) and 雨 (あめ). Also the origins, if anyone knows I'll be grateful.
Also, if anyone could explain me the difference between 天 and 空.

One more time, Thank you very much in advance.

Buntaro · 15 Apr 2005

Meiji,

First is the original kanji for emperor (王), which is three horizontal lines connected by a vertical line. The three horizontal lines represent Heaven, the emperor, and earth. The idea is that the emperor was the connection for the common people between heaven and earth. (I have heard that these same three horizontal lines are important in flower-arranging.)

Which bring us to heaven (天). It is a picture of heaven, via the emperor, spreading its happiness upon the world.

Rain (雨 ) is the same idea, with the raindrops falling from the same upper horizontal (heaven) line.

Meiji Lythtis · 15 Apr 2005

Thank you very much Buntaro, I really apreciate your help. It's a very clear explanation.

bossel · 15 Apr 2005

Buntaro said:
Which bring us to heaven (天). It is a picture of heaven, via the emperor, spreading its happiness upon the world.

I think, it's more like man (ren 人) under heaven.

Elizabeth said:
And one thing more on 女、which is described particularly as a woman with outstretched arms and to me at least looks more like she's sitting cross-legged rather than bending or kneeling ?

If you look at the old characters you can actually see clearer that she is kneeling. The attached pics exemplify the development, I think. But there were many other varieties over time.

Glenn · 15 Apr 2005

bossel said:
I think, it's more like man (ren 人) under heaven.

I thought it was a great man under heaven (大 under the ceiling, 一).

Meiji Lythtis · 16 Apr 2005

I'm really grateful. Thank you very much everyone, your help was pretty useful.

Meiji.

Help on origins of kanjis ...

Meiji Lythtis

Maki's GOLD SAINT

bossel

後輩

Meiji Lythtis

Maki's GOLD SAINT

bossel

後輩

cacawate

観察するのが好きです

Elizabeth

先輩

Glenn

一切皆苦

Meiji Lythtis

Maki's GOLD SAINT

Buntaro

運動不足

Meiji Lythtis

Maki's GOLD SAINT

bossel

後輩

Attachments

Glenn

一切皆苦

Meiji Lythtis

Maki's GOLD SAINT

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