FirstHousePooka said:I heard that foreigners got banned from a few BLDY's around the Atsugi, Hon Atsugi and MAchida area (Odakyu line) because one group one time drank to much on the cheap ALL YOU CAN DRINK spirits bar.
MeAndroo said:A half white, half black friend of mine had a guy come up to her and say repeatedly "brajiru? brajiru?" I mean, I know there's a fair amount of Japanese in Brazil, but is that really the default?
Mikawa Ossan said:I have encountered much of what has been mentioned here, but I fully expect it, and I have from the beginning. I mean, being a foreigner in Japan makes me a minority from the start. Being a minority ANYWHERE puts you in a disadvantage.
At stores, I sometimes find that the clerks won't talk directly to me even if I ask a question, like Maciamo. I hate that.
Maybe I expect discrimination too much, but I was SHOCKED (in a good way), when I first went to a capsle hotel in Hiroshima and some guy started talking to me out of the blue about his laundry he was doing. I mean, he was talking to me completely naturally. Actually, I had(have) it stuck in my mind that capsle hotels are very anti-foreigners, but I've had better experiences there in general than at regular hotels.
I came from the USA originally, and as you well know, they have many issues with minorities there. I have always thought of it as a cruel but unyielding fact that minorities face many obstacles that a non-minority has a hard time understanding.Maciamo said:I didn't expect it, because I have lived in such countries as Spain or Italy where I was almost as clearly a foreigner as in Japan, and was never treated much differently from the locals
I know many people who like to talk about serious subjects, but I should clarify. When I talk to co-workers, I never have this problem. When I talk to fellow volunteer members, I do. It really depends on who I'm talking too.Maciamo said:I am fed up of their lack of interest and knowledge for serious subjects.
But you see, the guy spoke to me in JAPANESE without skipping a beat. That's what was so shocking! I was really flattered, actually. It was like the guy didn't even notice I was a foreigner!Maciamo said:This mostly happened to me when the guy could speak English and addressed me in English as if I looked like an English-speaker.
Mikawa Ossan said:But you see, the guy spoke to me in JAPANESE without skipping a beat. That's what was so shocking! I was really flattered, actually. It was like the guy didn't even notice I was a foreigner!
On a slightly different note, has a Japanese person ever come up to you at say the train station and asked you for help buying the right ticket? It happened to me once by a little old lady. I don't think she could see so well...
Sorry. I misunderstood. :sorry:Maciamo said:I understood. I wanted to point out that it NEVER happened to me. You were "lucky" if I may say so.
Yeah, when I worked at the hotel, I remember some customer who just wouldn't listen to my directions, even though it was to a place right next to where I live.Maciamo said:Once, a guy was going to ask me, but as I turned and he saw that I was a Westerner, he abruptly stop talking and walked away without a word. me !
Mikawa Ossan said:I should mention that I am not asian, but I am very thin, so maybe I'm somewhat less intimidating(?) than some other foreigners.(?)
I don't know. I really don't understand it at all. I mean, my ancesters are all from northern Europe, and once I was in Seoul (this is S. Korea mind you) and some guy asked me for directions IN JAPANESE even though I was certainly not speaking Japanese with my American friends I was with at the time. I was flabergasted. I really don't understand how people decide such things. ☝Maciamo said:But that is not it, why would someone behind me ask me for directions, then suddenly go away without a word or even a "sumimassen" when they see I am not Japanese ?
Maciamo said:But that is not it, why would someone behind me ask me for directions, then suddenly go away without a word or even a "sumimassen" when they see I am not Japanese ? That time there was nobody else immediately around, except the first guy he asked who didn't have a clue. Well, that's his choice (but I don't want to hear some Japanese tell me about the strength of the samurai spirit in every Japanese salaymen - more coward you die !).
Mikawa Ossan said:I don't know. I really don't understand it at all. I mean, my ancesters are all from northern Europe, and once I was in Seoul (this is S. Korea mind you) and some guy asked me for directions IN JAPANESE even though I was certainly not speaking Japanese with my American friends I was with at the time. I was flabergasted. I really don't understand how people decide such things. ☝
Kara_Nari said:Well I arrived yesterday morning [in Fukuoka] off the ferry from Busan. The ferry was great, but very long. It was like a mini cruise ship, movie room, restaurant, communal baths. I was the only non asian on the ferry, and for some reason everyone decided they would speak to me in Japanese, even the Koreans.
URCOLRSOFFpipokun said:Let him/her lost his/her way, and you don't have to exaggerate things...
A small yellow card for your exaggeration.
ﾂ ﾂ ﾂ █
('A`)ﾋ慊ｦ
Mikawa Ossan's interesting case is intriguing, but not enough information to make any informed guess. How old was the person asking you the question in Japanese ? Did (s)he look like a visitor from Japan ? Did the word Japan or Nippon/Nihon or anything that might lead the person to believe that you (or some people in your company) were/was somehow capable of speaking Japanese ? These things can have an impact on how that person made a decision, but there's just not enough info in MO's post.Maciamo said:Now that's interesting ! You are the second person to say that today.
Kara_Nari explained the same experience in this thread :
Why would Koreans in Korea address Westerners in Japanese ? Were they elderly people who had to learn Japanese during the Japanese occupation ?
Well, let's see how much I remember.... I was with a Jewish American man, and I know this is rude, but he looked like the poster-child for a Western-Jew. (Sorry, Scott, if you're reading this! :sorry: ) I was also with a woman, also American, but her ethnicity was half Peruvian and half Japanese. But I think she looked much more Peruvian than Japanese. I happen to look very European (not American, for some reason. I've been asked here and in America whether I'm French, Chzech, Swedish, etc..) I think I had a RURUBU tour magazine (which is in Japanese, yes), but I wasn't looking at it at the time or even holding it; it would have been in my bag. It was kind of funny. We were standing in front of 景福宮 (Kyonbokkun ) taking pictures and this middle-aged guy comes out of nowhere and asks me in Japanese, 景福宮はどちらでしょうか(where is Kyonbokkun?) Of course I told him, and he left. It was a surreal moment. Does this help?lexico said:URCOLRSOFFMikawa Ossan's interesting case is intriguing, but not enough information to make any informed guess. How old was the person asking you the question in Japanese ? Did (s)he look like a visitor from Japan ? Did the word Japan or Nippon/Nihon or anything that might lead the person to believe that you (or some people in your company) were/was somehow capable of speaking Japanese ? These things can have an impact on how that person made a decision, but there's just not enough info in MO's post.
Kari_Nara said:So that brings me to the conclusion that is is dependant on the particular person. I dont think it matters on your sex, your looks or your language ability, but on your character at a first glance.
Kara_Nari said:I think the worst place I have been for foreigner extortion is Thailand. The mark up is phenomenal.
One other thing I had heard about was that foreigners with tattoos are sometimes not allowed admission to places. Is this true? I went to the public baths today, and didnt seem to have any problem. I am always a little uncomfortable because one of my tattoos is in Kanji, which can be read in Korea and China too. Luckily I havent as yet been denied entry.
Yes, this is true, but being a foreigner and having a tattoo here are two different issues. Many baths/onsen/hotsprings, etc. try to refuse people with tattooes regardless of nationality. Tatooes are associated with the yakuza, and therefore frowned upon.:smoke:Kara_Nari said:One other thing I had heard about was that foreigners with tattoos are sometimes not allowed admission to places. Is this true? I went to the public baths today, and didnt seem to have any problem. I am always a little uncomfortable because one of my tattoos is in Kanji, which can be read in Korea and China too. Luckily I havent as yet been denied entry.
Sri Lanka has the double rate thing, too. Even at (especially at?) government owned (I think) historical and religious sights. But I'll be honest. I didn't really mind. I know that I have much more money than the average Sri Lankan living in Sri Lanka does. I think of it as a kind of progressive tax.Kara_Nari said:Even some tourist places will have Farang price and Thai price. The cost was significantly different. Havent come across such extortion anywhere else as yet.
I guess they were too busy here in Japan looking at my tan line, to care about a couple of tattoos hehe..
The Japanese have been quite friendly to the Jewish people ever since the Russo-Japanese War in 1904-1905. I know, I'm stretching it !Mikawa Ossan said:Well, let's see how much I remember.... I was with a Jewish American man, and I know this is rude, but he looked like the poster child for a Western Jew. (Sorry, Scott, if you're reading this! :sorry: )
I have declared my candidacy for the Japanese House of Representatives in order to protect my country from destruction and hijacking by the international Jewish organization. Our priceless country, which we have inherited from our ancestors, is gradually being taken over and destroyed by the...
The lost historical connection of the crossing of the Bering land bridge?I was also with a woman, also American, but her ethnicity was half Peruvian and half Japanese. But I think she looked much more Peruvian than Japanese.
But Japan is a western country by some standards...I happen to look very European (not American, for some reason. I've been asked here and in America whether I'm French, Chzech, Swedish, etc..)
Or perhaps the person was clairvoyant or even psychic?I think I had a RURUBU tour magazine (which is in Japanese, yes), but I wasn't looking at it at the time or even holding it; it would have been in my bag. It was kind of funny.
Now I get it! I am often asked for directions in a strange city when I am a stranger myself. My hesitation and unusually long pauses seem to attract people with a similar problem with directions. If at all possible, I try to stay composed, not to instil fear of asking or discouragement from a snappy answer, "I don't know either !" I try to behave like a local and give whatever "accurate" directions that I am able to give. The satisfaction is beyond words!We were standing in front of 景福宮 (Kyongbokkung ) taking pictures, and this middle-aged guy comes out of nowhere and asks me in Japanese, 景福宮はどちらでしょうか (Where is Kyongbokkung ?) Of course I told him, and he left.
Nevertheless, it is both surreal and wonderful when language does not matter; it is people who are talking to people. I think yours was a wonderful story to remind me of that oft-forgotten truth. We all came out of Africa not earlier than 40,000 yrs ago.It was a surreal moment. Does this help?
Why not ? If the ferryboat cruise was headed for Japan, it would be considered an added feature to be given as much Japanese as they can get. That's because touruism is for many people for the exotic experience. Would the mostly Korean/Japanese passengers on board not appreciate the language service by the Korean staff as well as that of the Japanese staff ? They are professionals catering to the needs of their clientel; there must have been a reason.Kara Nari said:The fact that the Japanese staff were speaking to me in Japanese was fine, but the Korean staff ? We hadn't actually left the port yet.
I believe that in any country exists the ancient code of conduct regarding foreigners (how would they know ? looks !). "Be nice to strangers for you were also strangers in a strange land." Some cultures practice this only to personal guests, but many also practiced this indiscriminately to any foreigner, for example the anicient Hebrews.Kara Nari said:In regards to the being asked for directions, I have had that already in my few days in Japan, many times in Korea. I feel stupid because I dont know my way around enough to help, but I am always given a warm response.
My boyfriend on the other hand who IS korean, doesnt get such a warm receiving from Koreans.
I am one of these nine. The fudosan was very nice and apologetic, and the guy found there then found me my current apartment quite speedily. That was 3 years ago. This is unrelated, but what I find more difficult is finding someone to co-sign the lease.Maciamo said:Among those who have looked for long-stay housing by themselves in Japan, 9 were refused accommodation at least once because they were foreigners. 2 didn't.
=> 82% discriminated for apartments
I am one of these 4 as well. I was refused entry to every fuzoku in Takamatsu City. (I had to try, if only once.) In retrospect, I'm glad I was refused service.Out of 16 people who have been to nightclubs, restaurants, hotels, onsen, etc. 4 were refused entry because they were foreigners.
=> 25% discriminated for entertainment places
Once again, I am one of the nine. I was in Shinjuku outside a Royal Host waiting for a friend to get out of work. It was like 10:30 at night, I believe, and I had been waiting in the same spot for at least 30 minutes. The police officer came and asked me for my gaijin card, which I promptly handed over to him. He studied it for a moment and then confirmed that I was student (I was at the time.) Then he started talking to me very friendly about college and explaining why he had asked for my card. He was a nice guy, but he was a little suspicious he said, because he had passed by about 30 minutes earlier and he saw me in the same place doing basically nothing. I thought this was perfectly understandable.Among 16 people who voted, 9 have had discrimination problems with the police.
=> 56% discriminated by police
Yes, we run into into problems, but we are the minority in this country. I know you have a different outlook, but I just expect this from time to time. I find that the more accepting you are, the more other people accept you.From the current results (although very succint), we can say that foreigners in Japan are very likely to encounter discrimination for long-term accommodation or sexual discrimination at work. They are fairly likely to be annoyed bu the police, but only partially likely to have problems with entertainment places, and even less with short-term accommodation, although it will happen to some people.