Greenpeace Japan gets support from Japanese

centrajapan · 30 Jan 2008

Germans have also a long sea food tradition, and thus according regular warnings out, according to our two seas.

Not to sound too nationalistic and patriotic here but....

Germnay is for the most part land locked. Most Germans could not tell the difference between a whale and mackrell unlike we Norwegians. Which means The land of the fjords in some Viking ancient language. Norway means ocean. Deutchland. LAND. It means land. Our sea food tradition is compared with Germany rather deep and rich to say the least..... btw. If whales are as dangerous as you say it is. How come MY country is much richer than YOUR country? I also bet alot more Germans wear glasses than Norwegians. Germany is after all known for its glasses.

The top 10 sea food consumers in the world are.......drum roll................

1 Maldives
2 Iceland
3 Kiribati
4 Japan
5 Seychelles
6 Portugal
7 Norway
8 Malaysia
9 French Polynesia
10 South Korea

Quia - Top 10 - Fish Consumers (per capita)

IF German sea food tradition is rich than Norwegian is much richer and so is the Japanese.

Countries with a strong sea food cultures have a whale food culture too. It is safe to say Japan together with Iceland, Norway has a strong maritime culture. We invented the Vikings for crying out loud and we used to own 90% of all ships in the world at one stage.

Sea food in general is regarded as healthy. Rich in protein, omega, vitamin E etc. It is good for your health to eat some sea food. It is regarded as more healthy than meat. People who eat sea food tend to live longer than people who do not eat sea food.

All food is dangerous anything in moderation. But whale meat and other sea food is regarded as healthier than meat and dairy products in general. In Scandinavia and in Iceland you do not see many over weight people like you do in other parts of Europe or US. Thats because we eat less meat and more fish.

centrajapan · 30 Jan 2008

Germans have also a long sea food tradition, and thus according regular warnings out, according to our two seas.

Germnay is for the most part land locked. Most Germans could not tell the difference between a whale and mackrell unlike we Norwegians. Which means The land of the fjords in some Viking ancient language. Norway means ocean. Deutchland. LAND. It means land. Our sea food tradition is compared with Germany rather deep and rich to say the least..... btw. If whales are as dangerous as you say it is. How come MY country is much richer than YOUR country? I also bet alot more Germans wear glasses than Norwegians. Germany is after all known for its glasses.

The top 10 sea food consumers in the world are.......drum roll................

1 Maldives
2 Iceland
3 Kiribati
4 Japan
5 Seychelles
6 Portugal
7 Norway
8 Malaysia
9 French Polynesia
10 South Korea

Quia - Top 10 - Fish Consumers (per capita)

IF German sea food tradition is rich than Norwegian is much richer and so is the Japanese.

Countries with a strong sea food cultures have a whale food culture too. It is safe to say Japan together with Iceland, Norway has a strong maritime culture. We invented the Vikings for crying out loud and we used to own 90% of all ships in the world at one stage.

Sea food in general is regarded as healthy. Rich in protein, omega, vitamin E etc. It is good for your health to eat some sea food. It is regarded as more healthy than meat. People who eat sea food tend to live longer than people who do not eat sea food.

All food is dangerous anything in moderation. But whale meat and other sea food is regarded as healthier than meat and dairy products in general. In Scandinavia and in Iceland you do not see many over weight people like you do in other parts of Europe or US. Thats because we eat less meat and more fish.

bakaKanadajin · 30 Jan 2008

centrajapan said:
Boohoo. Taiko666. You sound like one of those grumpy gaijins who is stuck in Japan but hates being in Japan therefore you are against whaling simply because the Japanese do it. If that is not racism then that word has no meaning.

It is no worse to eat whales than cows. This non event is becoming politicalised due to white folks imperialistic racist mind set.

How did you make the leap from Taiko666 not liking whaling to Takio666 is an angry, lost gaijin who's stuck in Japan and hates all things Japanese? Your logic process is severely delusional, if anyone here is nationalistic its you because every single pro-whaling post you make CLEARLY stems from the fact that Norway is one of those countries affected by the ban.

Chi65 · 30 Jan 2008

You can start to ignore CJ's post. He also has his brains effected, as you rightly state it your way . . .probably also high blood pressure, as another known symptom of his "healthy whalemeat".
And apart from that, he is completely off topic now. A Kind of Don Xichote. . .

kame · 31 Jan 2008

Taiko666 said:
I agree. But instead of 'us' ceasing exports, why don't 'you' just stop eating it? Or are you waiting for somebody to tell/force you to stop eating it?

I just said that because Chi seems to want Japanese to stop eating whales because she "cares" about the health of Japanese people.

What would American say if I told them to stop eating beef because it's bad for your health and I am worried about their health? They would say "mind your own damn business". Same with telling Japanese to stop eating whales because they are bad for them.

centrajapan · 31 Jan 2008

CLEARLY stems from the fact that Norway is one of those countries affected by the ban.

Wrong. Norway does not have any whaling ban. We got so much whale meat that whale meat also is used as pet food. And the whaling population does not decrease, infact it is very much sustainable. Whale in Norwegain is called the Gold of the ocean.

Whaling is my culture. It also is Japanese culture. People with not my culture dictating my culture? You sound like a bunch of imperialistic nazis to tell you the truth.

So why should not Japan be able to hunt commercial?

Hiroyuki Nagashima · 31 Jan 2008

"Whales are at the top of the food pyramid, so that any pollutants in the oceans concentrate in their bodies," Yoko Tomiyama, chairwoman of the Consumers Union of Japan told Reuters.

Wait a little!
A top of a food chain is a human being.
A whale of Taiji is a Gondo whale.
They eat a saury and a cuttlefish.
A human being eats the same thing, too.
If this information is correct, a Japanese is already dead by mercury poisoning.
鯨と食物連鎖

The logic that only a whale of Taiji is polluted does contradiction.

By the way,
The mink whales which are in the South Pole eat plankton.
It is not a top of a food chain.

Information should scan it justly.

Chi65 · 31 Jan 2008

kame said:
I just said that because Chi seems to want Japanese to stop eating whales because she "cares" about the health of Japanese people.
What would American say if I told them to stop eating beef because it's bad for your health and I am worried about their health? They would say "mind your own damn business". Same with telling Japanese to stop eating whales because they are bad for them.

Its not just me, who wants to stop Japanese eating whales, you wish to misunderstand completely. I simply point out, what your own Japanese have also found out and were also protesting against, as can be seen in the former articles. Its common sense to question it under the present circumstances, and many Japanese did this far befor me, as several articles showed.
If even governmental reactions are the result, one may see, how urgent it really is. That has nothing to do with me, and is simple cheap scapegoating, because some Japanese do not wish to see, that the problem is homemade.
The splinter is in your own eye.
I am only a caring reminder.
I would do the very same in my own country in such a case. But this is a Japan forum, asking for exactly such facts and opinions.
So what.

Chi65 · 31 Jan 2008

Hiroyuki Nagashima said:
"Whales are at the top of the food pyramid, so that any pollutants in the oceans concentrate in their bodies," Yoko Tomiyama, chairwoman of the Consumers Union of Japan told Reuters.
Wait a little!
A top of a food chain is a human being.

Not in the ocean or amongst the ocean inhabitants, which was meant here.

A whale of Taiji is a Gondo whale.
They eat a saury and a cuttlefish.
A human being eats the same thing, too.
If this information is correct, a Japanese is already dead by mercury poisoning.
鯨と食物連鎖
The logic that only a whale of Taiji is polluted does contradiction.

Its indeed contradiction, but of aother kind, because its not only the Taiji whale, but whale in general. They also found extreme poisonings in research whaling whales as well, there is this article from sciencedirect short before. Other sources confirm the same.
No one said, that only the Taiji whale is poisoned, by the way. I don't even know, if the meat in the shops around Taiji were only from their own area (the dolphin meat may thus, but it is also known, that whalemeat is widely distributed under the fake name of dolphin meat). The article does not say this. They only write on many other articles, that whale and dolphin meat was widely distributed in more than 250 schools for the children, and not just 2007, but at least since 2003, according to other articles (also general press).
And as also stated in another article, whales are much more vulnerable to such contents also in other fish, that they consume, which is, why they have such a high rate of toxics now, and obviously also in the already sorted out so called edible parts, who were examined! Imagine, how much more the non-edible parts must have had. . .puh. . .
That simply means, humans are less receptive to certain poisons than whales. But generally also, as the Minamoto deaster showed. And thats why there are certain allowed (supposed to be harmless) contents, from which the percentage of overdoses is taken during the researches of other scientists.

Signs of poisoning often do come much later, as the children, born after eating poisoned meat, clearly showed.

By the way,
The mink whales which are in the South Pole eat plankton.
It is not a top of a food chain.
Information should scan it justly.

Yes, as long as they are there, but they are there only for a limited time in the year, then they move to warmer zones once more for longer to raise their children and mate (see whale watching) and back again. . .they are the same whales in the same ocean eating the same fish, being the same top of the ocean food pyramid.

"Not only the blubber, but also the red meat is contaminated," said Yoko Tomiyama, head of the Japan Consumers Union, citing a recent Norwegian warning that pregnant women should not eat whale because of high levels of toxic mercury.

"This should not be imported to Japan, and we have made our views clear to the government."

. . . . . .

Chi65 · 31 Jan 2008

To illustrate the reactions of Japanese, but I don't know, how old it is, to be fair:

Open Letter to the Govt. of Japan

We are citizen groups active in Japan. Our stance is that the consumption of whale meat is not an indispensable part of the Japanese diet.
It is true that in a certain period after World War II, whale meat was an important source of protein for Japanese people. However, as the war-shattered society recovered, the number of people who continued eating whale meat declined sharply. Nowadays, whale meat is typically consumed as a luxury food, a gourmet specialty item served along with drinks, or presented as a gift.

The Japanese government has insisted to the international community that whale meat is one of Japan's traditional foods that is indispensable for the nation. Despite this claim, the industry and government have had to run various campaigns domestically to encourage whale meat consumption. These campaigns include providing distorted information on people overseas who are opposing whaling as well as routinely attempting to manipulate public opinion by announcing misleading reports on the IWC. The situation, however, has not changed and the majority of Japanese still do not eat whale... [more]
When the contamination of whale meat became an issue, the government contended that it would pose no health concern pointing out that the average amount of whale meat consumed annually per person in Japan is less than 1g. Despite these circumstances, the Japanese government has pushed ahead with an enlarged scale of "scientific" whaling and has attempted to resume commercial whaling, ignoring the international rules.
These actions benefit only a minority of people and businesses, and do not represent the general consensus of the Japanese people.

As groups and individuals acting in Japan, we demand the following of the Japanese government:

1. Stop the scientific whaling of sperm whales and Bryde's whales in the Northwest Pacific that is scheduled to start this summer.

2. Abandon lethal methods of research and pursue instead non-lethal research. Stop killing whales under the name of science.

3. Stop any activities aiming for the resumption of commercial whaling such as fisheries aid to buy the pro-whaling votes of other countries;

4. Exercise strict control over smuggled and/or illegally caught whale meat.

5. Immediately alert consumers regarding the health risk of consuming whale meat contaminated with chemical substances.

6. Stop using taxpayer's money to propagate biased reports designed to promote whaling.
This letter to the government of Japan was signed by 73 organizations and prominent individuals in Japan, including the Japan Wildlife Conservation Society, the Japan Consumers' Union, the Elsa Nature Conservancy, the Hokkaido Animal Conservation Society, and the Japan Animal Welfare Society.

bakaKanadajin · 31 Jan 2008

centrajapan said:
CLEARLY stems from the fact that Norway is one of those countries affected by the ban.

Wrong. Norway does not have any whaling ban. We got so much whale meat that whale meat also is used as pet food. And the whaling population does not decrease, infact it is very much sustainable. Whale in Norwegain is called the Gold of the ocean.

Whaling is my culture. It also is Japanese culture. People with not my culture dictating my culture? You sound like a bunch of imperialistic nazis to tell you the truth.

So why should not Japan be able to hunt commercial?

If you're not affected by the ban then what you're actually saying is you're not observing the ban. Get the terminology correct, you're not technically supposed to be whaling if a ban is in effect.

And in this day and age if something you do affects the well-being of others or is deemed harmful to the global community then people WILL dictate what you can and can't do. Whether you choose to listen is another story, but don't think just because something is 'your culture' you have a free ticket to do whatever the F you want. The ancient Greeks regularly slept with children as a part of their culture but that wouldn't work in this day and age. That's an extreme example but it clearly demonstrates that cultural subjectivity isn't grounds for justification of anything.

As for why whaling has any connection to the global community, please re-read every single argument against whaling as it pertains to maintaining the ocean food chain, coral reefs, research into animal intelligence, etc.

Mikawa Ossan · 31 Jan 2008

Mikawa Ossan said:
Centrajapan, you keep saying "racist" but why do you think people against whaling are racist? Do you think that anti-whaling people would be less anti-whaling towards Norway or other country with a different racial makeup than Japan?
Cultural chauvanism and racism may be related in many cases, but they are not the same thing. Please substantiate your use of this term or stop using it. Nowhere has anyone said to my knowledge anything that sounds like it has racial undertones. It seems to me that anti-whaling people would be equally opposed to whaling practices regardless of the country doing the whaling.

Centrajapan, please do not ignore me. Calling people racist is a serious matter. Defend your use of the term.

Sarapva · 31 Jan 2008

Mikawa Ossan said:
It seems to me that anti-whaling people would be equally opposed to whaling practices regardless of the country doing the whaling.

That's right!!

Chi65 · 31 Jan 2008

Exactly. . .I join in, if I may

butakun · 31 Jan 2008

bakaKanadajin said:
As for why whaling has any connection to the global community, please re-read every single argument against whaling as it pertains to maintaining the ocean food chain, coral reefs, research into animal intelligence, etc.

All those things are possible under regulated and sustainable whaling. They can coexist. The argument is whether whaling is sustainable or not.

centrajapan · 31 Jan 2008

Centrajapan, please do not ignore me. Calling people racist is a serious matter. Defend your use of the term.

My point has always been clear. You are a racist for opposing whaling. You show diregard towards other cultures and you are trying to impose your eating habits down peoples throats. Or rather denying people what people want to eat.

Native Americans, Japanese and others who hunt whales. They are the people who should decide what they want to eat and not to eat and no one else.

Whaling is sustainable. Thats the whole point of it. It also is very environmental friendly and energy efficient to produce 1 kilog gram of whale meat compared with 1 kilo gram of beef.

Mikawa Ossan · 31 Jan 2008

But don't you see that you're wrong about the racist point? People who oppose whaling may or may not be cultural imperialists, but they are only racist if they oppose whaling due to the race of the people hunting whales. That is what racism is: treating people differently based purely on their race.

centrajapan · 31 Jan 2008

There are many people who only oppose Japanese whaling but not for instance Inuits hunting whales as they are very often regarded as "Nobel Savages". I have a problem with that attitude. Then there are people aho are against INuits whaling. I also have a problem against that attitude because whaling is a part of their culture.

In both cases it is a people who has no culture in eating whale meat telling people who has a culture in eating whale meat that what they eat and do is wrong. They are disrespecting that culture.

Mikawa Ossan · 31 Jan 2008

butakun said:
All those things are possible under regulated and sustainable whaling. They can coexist. The argument is whether whaling is sustainable or not.

I agree with this statement, actually.

I did a quick search on why people oppose whaling in the first place, and I found several reasons. Many of them have been brought up here, but I did notice that most people seemed to treat all whales the same. In other words, whales were not considered any differently based on the numbers of any particular species. Whaling was just bad all across the board.

Thereupon, I found an interesting editorial in some American newspaper that gave me an idea of why. It said that many people in the industrialized world have come to the conclusion that whales are too intelligent to be classified as "just another animal." In other words, there was something inherently different about whales that made them offlimits to whaling. I wonder how widespread this belief is. It seems to me to actually be the main reason why people oppose whaling whether they actually state it or not.

Mikawa Ossan · 31 Jan 2008

centrajapan said:
There are many people who only oppose Japanese whaling but not for instance Inuits hunting whales as they are very often regarded as "Nobel Savages". I have a problem with that attitude. Then there are people aho are against INuits whaling. I also have a problem against that attitude because whaling is a part of their culture.
In both cases it is a people who has no culture in eating whale meat telling people who has a culture in eating whale meat that what they eat and do is wrong. They are disrespecting that culture.

I'll be the first to admit my ignorancy on this area, but aren't Inuits allowed an exemption to the whaling moratorium because at least at the time of the moratorium's signing, those people relied on whaling for a substantial part of their diet?

I think what might be different about Japan is that even at the best of times, whale is not a significant part of the Japanese diet. In other words, there are many choices, and food is plentiful, so Japanese don't need to rely on whaling for survival.

Wasn't the whaling moratorium intended to be lifted when whale populations recouperated to sustainable levels? If one could demonstrate that whale populations have reached such numbers, people opposed to whaling wouldn't have a legal basis to do so anymore, would they?

EDIT: Is it just me, or is this really off-topic? If anyone would like the thread split, let me know!

Mars Man · 31 Jan 2008

AND NOW IT'S TIME for a little comic relief:

Bob: Hey, Bill, did catch that whaling in Japan thread?

Bill: WOW !! You're joking?!! I guess evolution is speeding up these days !

and now back to our regularly scheduled program....

Chi65 · 31 Jan 2008

Strange, this is Japan forum, not an Inuit, nor Norvegian forum to my knowledge. . .

My reasons now are not limited to any country, nor ever were before, particularly after the now known facts about the contents of the meat.

What keeps on making me wonder, is the ignorance of some towards very simple and proven facts about the present state of these contents. . .that ignorance from whoever has fatal effects, because it is leading to misinformations and wishfull thinking.

Since there are loads of desasters in the world, caused by the very same ignorance for money's sake, it is in all cases better to point towards it, before it is too late. But I fear, according to the schoolchildren's diet, that the effects will show in the future.
I happen to know a Japanese, who is from Wakayama and has a little son (not yet schoolage though), and considers to move. . .even out of Japan. . .

Mikawa Ossan · 31 Jan 2008

If someone is well aware of the risks, but eats whale meat anyway, what would you say then? Surely then the mercury content, etc., would be a moot point, wouldn't it?

centrajapan · 31 Jan 2008

I think what might be different about Japan is that even at the best of times, whale is not a significant part of the Japanese diet. In other words, there are many choices, and food is plentiful, so Japanese don't need to rely on whaling for survival.

Why do you have to prove to anyone that they need whale meat for their surviva? Do you have to prove that you need beef for your survival? There are super markets in Alaska and Greenland too. The whole point that whaling is bad initself is a very imperialistic stance. Racist. People can kill whales if they need to but we would prefer if they did not? Thats none of peoples business as far as I am concerned. Eating whale meat is no better or worse than eating pigs or cows. Speaking from an environmental perspective it is more ecological to eat whales because the natural habitat remains unaffected and energy is low in relation to yield. Anyway...

Take for instance Chi. This ignorant German woman who eats sausages and other types of meat and wears leather boots BUT she is against Japanese whaling. The whale for her is some sacred floating cow therefore she wants other people to have the same religion as she has towards whales. Thats imperialism and racism. Both Chi and her country Germany have no tradition eating whale meat. Its easy for her to say. Dont eat whale meat because it has never been a part of her culture.

Ja vi in Germany dont eat whalez thats why whaling iz barbaric. Its her attitude which is barbaric.

Now she recently discovered on the internet that whale meat is deadly. So now she wants to SAVE the Japanese from eating whales. She should be a comedian.

Whale meat is not dangerous. Beef, pork, apples, shrimp. All food is dangerous. Everything in moderation and a good balanced diet is the healthiest diet there is.

Mikawa Ossan · 31 Jan 2008

centrajapan said:
Why do you have to prove to anyone that they need whale meat for their surviva?

This is simple enough to answer. At the time of the declaration of the whaling moratorium, there was a consensus that whale stocks were dangerously low. It was decided that that any unnecessary whaling could lead to extinction of whale species, and therefore few exceptions were granted. Substinance whaling was grounds for such an exception, and therefore it became necessary to demonstrate the need for whale meat for survival to obtain such an exemption.

Please keep insults to yourself. Calm and collected arguments are much more convincing than insults or arguments littered with them.

Greenpeace Japan gets support from Japanese

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