This is a mobile optimized page that loads fast, if you want to load the real page, click this text.

Grammar Study

D

drewa

先輩
Joined
21 Sep 2013
Messages
152
Reaction score
1
Hey, I have a question about grammar.
So, I've been studying Japanese more and more, and my vocabulary part of Japanese is going really great.
But the grammar part isn't so good.
I think my grammar is very basic. I can learn advanced grammar online and everything, but then when I'm actually faced with a Japanese passage there's grammar that just is unfamiliar with me, and I've never seen any grammar points online concerning most of the unfamiliar grammar.

For example, I can make
貴方の部屋を掃除する前に食事するべきだ。
I'm not sure what level the grammar used in this sentence would be categorized as, but I think it's simple.

But then sentences like this
ストローを吹いてシャボン玉を作って遊ぶ子供がかいてあります 。
Does it mean, "There's a kid drawn blowing through a straw and making bubbles."?

Ah, this is a better example
どうしてなのでしょう。
I've seen it used sometimes but I can only come up that it means "why" with an added meaning of probably. For example, you're asking someone why something happened but you know that the person doesn't know for sure. So it's like "Why do you think this happened?"

So anyway, I was just wondering if you guys knew a way to study grammar, or had any tips on Japanese grammar both in written and spoken.
Thanks!
 
Have you learned Japanese grammar properly, e.g. in a class or through a textbook? More specifically, have you learned "the attributive/adnominal clause", which is equivalent to the relative clause in English grammar for your second example sentence, or "the explanatory の/ん" for the last one?
 
Your middle Japanese sentence would be about mid level grammar. I think you've translated it okay, but that かいて isn't in kanji, so it's hard to get the meaning clearly. It's not always best to be literal, but I sort of do that to help with my 'Japanese thinking,' in that if I consider how they say it in English, it helps me imitate them better. I would translate it as "A kid plays blowing a straw and making bubbles has been drawn," if draw is the verb. I'm not all that great with usage of ～てあります。 I get the gist, but I don't use it at all.

The second one is also mid-level. でしょう is not necessarily a question. It depends on the context. I would think it's sort of a rhetorical question in this case, "Why would that be?" or "I wonder why?"

One of the reasons I can't give you a better answer on that ～てあります point is that I stopped studying about five years ago, and the stuff that isn't as common slowly fades away, while でしょう is used all the time, so you sort of pick it up without trying if you speak to natives a lot.

If you are concerned with grammar, try picking up a book like this: Amazon.co.jp： 日本語総まとめ N3 文法 (「日本語能力試験」対策): 佐々木 仁子, 松本 紀子: 本

That's Japan's Amazon, but I'm sure it's available in the States for not too much money. That's the level 3 JLPT, so it's mid-level, and if you can get a solid handle on that, then you will be much better off. I would say the JLPT 2 is good for a wide variety of Japanese comprehension, and should be your goal, but just take it one step at a time and work your way up
 
Properly... nooo haha. I don't have the money to afford textbooks and my schools never offer Japanese. I'm completely self study through the internet, and no I haven't learned those either.
For sure I'll go and learn them now. I know that it will help a lot because I remember there was a time when I didn't learn about transitive or intransitive verbs but now that I know it's fine. And I also used to go about learning kanji the wrong way as well.
So, I'm just wondering if there's a suggested way to learn it.
I have 3 notebooks full of Japanese grammar from JapanesePod101's grammar bank, but I don't use it so much cause it always ends up not sounding natural compared to when Japanese natives talk. Furthermore, I usually talk to Japanese people around my age so they tend to throw away lots of the grammar and particles.
 
Ahhh, thank you nahadef. I just need to get the money to afford these books.
 
drewa said:
Ahhh, thank you nahadef. I just need to get the money to afford these books.
Click to expand...

Twenty bucks is not so much money. Unless your a high school student supporting the rest of your family or some other such difficult situation, you should be able to invest that much. You can afford the Internet, for example. One text will last you probably six months, so compare six months of study to, say, a night at the movies. Not very expensive at all!
 
I have to ask my mom for money haha.
Just one question though, how do you recommend memorizing the grammar? Just repetition?(Guess that's 2 questions)
 
Personally, when I was 10 I had a paper route. Everyone has their own way though...

Learning a language works differently for different people. Some people do really well just reading lists of grammar. I had difficulty with that, so I liked to see it being used in context. When I saw them in a conversation or essay, I was able to remember the context better. The main texts I used were a grammar a book of examples without explanations, that was really good, but useless without a teacher (I took a weekly private lesson for a year or two), and another, a book of Japanese essays and articles that highlighted grammar points that might be new was good for self-study.

So, it depends on your learning style. If you really have zero money, you should be hitting up the library for whatever they have, and try to figure out what works for you.
 
I'm going to try out a new way of learning grammar.
I recently read something on AJATT(alljapaneseallthetime).
I learned that I need to use a lot heavier amount of native Japanese in my studies. And not just paper stuff. My learning consists of like 90% writing, 5% reading and 5% listening. And now thinking about this "how to learn", I think I can learn grammar better by the way AJATT described. So, starting tomorrow, I start this new method! I actually think my Japanese will increase greatly with this method.
 

I'll be frank. You DON'T need to buy books online. Minna no Nihongo series can be easily downloaded through the internet. Google it and selfstudy with it. That is the series considered most effective by many people.
 
Andromedashun said:
I'll be frank. You DON'T need to buy books online. Minna no Nihongo series can be easily downloaded through the internet. Google it and selfstudy with it. That is the series considered most effective by many people.
Click to expand...

As Angel Valis said, it's illegal, and, with all respect to Vietnam, Western people need to be more law abiding and learn to pay for content, when possible. Considering the price of a text book (average $20), the number of minimum wage hours it costs (about 3 in America, 2 in Canada, etc) and the hours of use out of it (no idea, I think a low estimate is 50), there is no reason to download (steal) a textbook. There is no way that a Western person can claim not to afford it. That's about three trips to McDonalds. Everyone in America has been to McDonalds way more than that, right?

If the discussion goes into to Pimsleur (obscenely overpriced) or Game of Thrones (delayed by years in Japan), I think downloading gets a little more grey.

I think that if you can't spare the cash to buy a textbook or ten, you aren't really committed to the language.
 
There are a few decent free online resourcs. I should really just start putting the link to Erin's Challenge in my sig.

Also, with Ebay or other sources of second-hand stuff you can get away without spending a large amount of money.
 
nekojita said:
There are a few decent free online resourcs. I should really just start putting the link to Erin's Challenge in my sig.

Also, with Ebay or other sources of second-hand stuff you can get away without spending a large amount of money.
Click to expand...

Erin's challenge is fantastic isn't it.... I was able to only dream of this kind of material when I started learning!

I was not aware of it even though you have often recommended it by the looks of things : )

The learning Japanese sub-forum seems to be the most active on JRef - perhaps a sticky for highly recommended, non commercial (free) resources could be added.

I was aware of The Japan Foundation but did not realise the scope and quality of their work ... great stuff.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

T
"I hope" Grammar Point
Replies
7
Views
65K
epigene
Grammar
13 14 15
Replies
363
Views
41K
Sultan
  • Sticky
Japanese Language Learning Resource List
3 4 5
Replies
107
Views
76K
hellokurt
M
How to self-study with Genki?
Replies
5
Views
25K
Kraise
B
  • Sticky
I'd like to share some material...
2 3
Replies
68
Views
47K
alexthetrex
Menu
Log in
Register
Cookies are required to use this site. You must accept them to continue using the site. Learn more…