Good luck flag translation help

[edteach]

I have a good luck flag I would like to know what this flag says. Thanks for any help

 

[Toritoribe]

Your picture is upside down. In the first place, that's a poorly-made fake.

 

[edteach]

Not sure I believe that. Its obviously old, the silk has holes in it and the wear on the attachment is very old not forced. Non of the miltary collectors on any of the forums said it was not original.

 

[Toritoribe]

Are there Japanese people or people who are fluent in Japanese there? It's very obvious that all the slogans and signatures were written by the same hand.
You can find countless old fake flags made after the war as a souvenir for US soldiers even just in this forum.

 

[edteach]

Translating it to English will help.

 

[Uncle Frank]

During the war , Marines made a small industry of making fake flags to sell or trade. Some even had Japanese prisoners make them for them. My dad used to tell stories about Marines all over the Pacific in on the scam. From his stories , it sounds like thousands were produced for take home souvenirs for military guys to take back home.

 

[edteach]

Tojo flags have value also.

 

[Majestic]

Hello
Across the top of your flag

八紘一宇
Hakkō Icchu　
Eight corners of the world under one crown (Japanese patriotic slogan)

武運長久　
Buun Chōkyū
Everlasting luck in battle

内閣恩給局
Personnel and Pension Bureau

Various kanji (bravery, loyalty) followed by random names with ranks
Loyalty. Ida Ichiro
Bravery. Captain Nakano
Decisiveness. Lieutenant Itō
etc...

One has to wonder why all these names are written in the same style, in what looks to be the same hand. Its very unusual, to say the least.

 

[Toritoribe]

Translating it to English will help.

Er, are you asking for doing that for an obvious fake? Well, alright, there are typical patriotic slogans on the flag, like;

八紘一宇
All eight corners of the world under one roof

武運長久
Eternal good luck in battle

忠烈
Unswerving loyalty

滅私奉公
Sacrifice yourself for the nation

義勇
Loyalty and bravery

, and the name of a department is written there.
内閣恩給局？？？
The cabinet pension bureau ???(illegible)

The rest are signatures. (There is no recipient's name, addresses, company names or like that.)

EDIT:
Ooops! Majestic-san beats me!

 

[edteach]

I had an expert in these translate it and ID it. Its original but not to the war but just after during the ocupation.
Thanks and please let me correct my translation 3 and 6 like follows.

"3. 内閣恩給局　体育会　忠烈　井田一郎 Athletic club of the Cabinet Pension Bureau / Unswerving loyalty by Ida, Ichiro

6. 押 女+丙 (a coined word) 属　井川 We are playboys by Igawa (sounds same as 横柄属 Oh-hei-zoku = Arrogant guy)

This flag was used as a team flag for a friendly game, like baseball, with the allied forces in the postwar to be gifted to the vet.
A very historical one. "

 

[Majestic]

No, no, and no.
Believe it if you like, but there is nothing on this flag that says it was a friendly flag used by a sports team.

 

[edteach]

Sorry I have to go with the expert who collects these.

 

[Toritoribe]

I agree with Majestic-san. The patriotic slogans written there were only used during the war, and it's almost taboo words after the war. They were never used in such sports games.

内閣恩給局　体育会　忠烈　井田一郎 is not a single phrase in the first place.

Sorry I have to go with the expert who collects these.

What comes to my mind now is "sweet lemons rationalization"... Well, it's totally your choice whether you believe the expert or not after all, but please ask him/her my question.

もしこの日の丸が本当に連合軍相手の戦後の野球試合か何かに使われたと解釈されるなら、八紘一宇だとか武運長久などという、スポーツの試合ではおよそ意味をなさない、ある意味連合軍に喧嘩を売っているに等しいような時代錯誤のスローガンが何故そこ使われているのか、お考えをお聞かせいただけませんか。
あと、占領下で軍が解散されているにも関わらず、中野大尉、大西中尉、吉川少尉、伊藤少尉等の軍の階級が列挙されている理由についてもぜひ。

 

[Majestic]

Well, I don't think we need to spend too much more time on this. The OP is shopping this around on other militaria forums (where I am also registered) trying to find someone who will support his belief that it is a treasure. I'm seeing my own translations pop up on those forums. Tell Shinpachi-san I said "thanks for the compliment". The Wermacht Forum guys were as unimpressed with the flag as we were. It was just the poster Shimpachi on the Aviation forum who claimed it was given as a prize during a sports game, which I highly doubt. But I do confirm his reading of 体育会 as Sports Club, or could be Sports Festival, since that bit of the flag is straightened out in the other forum and is more easily visible. This would not be a natural gift to American GIs, since the patriotic slogans are essentially motivational slogans to kill enemy (US) soldiers.

Ed, we may not be experts, but we aren't stupid. Toritoribe-san and I have seen so many of these things, we know a suspicious flag when we see it.

 

[edteach]

Well I will double the price I paid and sell it on. Thanks.

 

[Majestic]

Sell it for $150, or wrap tonight's leftovers in it, be my guest. It's not a question of price, Ed. It's a question of integrity.

 

[edteach]

I will put it up for auction on Ebay.

 

[Toritoribe]

This thread is a good example to explain why obvious fake hinomaru flags have been circulating only outside of Japan. Japanese people, including me, would never purchase those flags...

 

[edteach]

Sold it and doubled my money. Thanks for helping with a questionable item.

 

[Toritoribe]

禍福は糾える縄の如し。罰が当たりませんように。

 

[Flyingace]

This is one of many reasons to be wary when buying any historic material on eBay.
Majestic, 'tonight's leftovers' comment made me laugh out loud.
You could not be more correct. Integrity is the operative word here - and behavior.
Thank you.

 

[edteach]

I sold it FTF for 150 to a collector. He was happy with it so am I.

 

[jeeplover]

I have been reading through the post. I will agree this looks a little suspect. I also feel it was in bad taste the op bragging he sold a very questionable flag. at the end of the day, it is his to do what he wants with it. I know some people come here to get a fast translation to make a quick buck. this is not why I am here. I am here to learn and meet new people. I hope everyone has a safe day