Gaydar and the Chart

[Hyde_is_my_anti-drug]

"Sexuality is fluid. Whether you're gay, straight, or bisexual you just go with the flow."--Shane "The L Word"

There's really no such thing as 100% straight or 100% gay in my opinion. If you were completely one or the other how could you know that someone of the same/opposite gender was so much as good looking? Yes, you are born with an orientation but that doesn't always mean that you're born KNOWING what that orientation is. One must always ask questions, at least that's what I believe. And as I said, if you are "totally straight/gay" then what's the harm in asking a simple question? And as I also said, if you really are the orientaion you think you are then it isn't going to change it so why be scared of asking? You say, "what's the use?" I say, "what's the harm?"

 

[MeAndroo]

Go with the flow? What does that mean? Whenever you find someone attractive you become the proper sexuality to pursue them? I'd appreciate an explanation if there's further context, or at least your interpretation of it.

I don't agree that agreeing someone can be seen as physically attractive is the same as being sexually attracted to them yourself. And I also think that before you're aware of what your sexuality or orientation is, i.e. pre-pubescence, you probably aren't asking yourself questions about it.

 

[Hyde_is_my_anti-drug]

You're misunderstanding me.

If someone where totally heterosexual then shouldn't that mean that they only have eyes for the opposite gender? They should be incapable of seeing anything attractive at all in their same gender, if you really think about it.

The flow. You fall in love with a person, not a gender. There is always an exception to every rule. If you're straight how can you think that out of the MILLIONS of people in the world that there won't be ONE of your same gender that you find attractive or is a "soul mate" for you? Same for if you're gay. Sexuality is fluid, it is not set in stone. Granted, most people never meet their exception but that doesn't mean they don't exist.

Discovering sexuality is not as simply as you think. Sometimes you don't recognize it for what it is because it's been drilled into you that homosexuality is wrong. It's not so cut and dry, it's very complex.

 

[MeAndroo]

Yes, I was misunderstanding you. Apparently I still am. I didn't think love had anything to do with sexuality. Like you say, you fall in love with a person. Does that mean you can become sexually attracted to them even if you'd never been attracted to that gender before? I've had many close male friends and love them to death. I've never been physically attracted to any of them. In fact, I don't understand how such an event could ever take place.

I guess I don't understand the difficulties of discovering sexuality. Before I started noticing girls, I never understood the concept of sexuality. It was only after I had entered puberty that I learned what it meant. By that point, there was little question whether I was physically attracted to males.

 

[El P8s]

Nope you're not born gay or straight for all I know you just have tendencies towards one or the other but it's never certain.

@Hyde Somehow I am getting the impression ,that you don't really try to see both sides it seems like you hide behind yourself beeing gay.
Do what you want but when I read your posts I feel bad because I'm hetherosexual.

 

[MeAndroo]

Nope you're not born gay or straight for all I know you just have tendencies towards one or the other but it's never certain.

So is sexuality conditioned? Theoretically, the claim of so many conservatives that a homosexual couple adopting a child could influence that child's sexuality, intentionally or not?

Or is it possible to alter between the two, as HIMA is saying. Based on external and internal influences, is sexuality just a point of view? Is it entirely mental and emotional and not physical?

If it's not possible to alter your sexuality through a sequence of events, I'd have to say a "tendency" isn't a tendency; it's a specific setting.

 

[El P8s]

So is sexuality conditioned? Theoretically, the claim of so many conservatives that a homosexual couple adopting a child could influence that child's sexuality, intentionally or not?
Or is it possible to alter between the two, as HIMA is saying. Based on external and internal influences, is sexuality just a point of view? Is it entirely mental and emotional and not physical?
If it's not possible to alter your sexuality through a sequence of events, I'd have to say a "tendency" isn't a tendency; it's a specific setting.

Everyone is gay and hetherosexual at the same time ,but you can rather be attracted to the same or the opposite sex ,and you can influence this but not enough for someone who is completely straight to become gay or the other way round.
You could only make someone ,who's walking the line go over to one side.

 

[MeAndroo]

So you're saying the right person could make someone who's straight feel kinda gay, but not enough to "become gay," but that people who see themselves as completely straight would never be convinced to cross the "sexuality line." If that's true, how is everyone gay and hetero, if they can never be convinced to engage in a particular side? If an option really isn't an option, why is it considered one? That's like saying someone likes cake and pie, but they would never eat pie.

Aren't the "walking the line" people just bi? Is there any real influence required if someone is bisexual in terms of sexuality?

 

[Kinsao]

I agree that there is a kind of 'scale' between being 100% straight and 100% gay, and people tend to be somewhere along that scale; and as for questioning, some people do, some don't, it's as simple as that.

Personally, I have never questioned my sexuality, because it is something I just know; I find men sexually attractive, I don't find women sexually attractive, therefore I assume I'm straight. I'm not ruling out the possibility that one day I might feel a sexual attraction to a woman (unlikely as it may seem to me, I am not so arrogant as to think I can know everything or see into the future!), but as I never have done, straight I am, and comfortable with that.

If you were completely one or the other how could you know that someone of the same/opposite gender was so much as good looking?

If someone where totally heterosexual then shouldn't that mean that they only have eyes for the opposite gender? They should be incapable of seeing anything attractive at all in their same gender, if you really think about it.

As I see it, yes, I can see things that are attractive in women. And to me, that's not because I'm attracted to women sexually, but simply because I am one.

It's an instinct, if you take it back to basics. Ok, I'm a straight woman and I want to attract a male mate for the continued survival of the species (in my hypothetical situation here). So what do I need? Of course, I need to look as attractive to the opposite sex as possible. How can I go about that if I don't even know what sexual attractiveness in a woman is? Therefore I need some sense of what makes a woman sexually attractive in order to 'aspire' to that myself. Am I making sense here?

As for another area of the discussion, is someone 'born' straight, or gay, or whatever they are inbetween? I'm inclined to think it's a combination of the 'nature/nurture', depending on the person and their circumstances. For example, I know some people who are gay and it seems (to the best of my knowledge - some are people I have known since childhood) to be largely a genetic factor - you would simply say they are 'made that way'. Other people I know, I am pretty well certain that they were influenced in a certain direction at certain times in their lives. (Not to say they would have been '100% straight' if those influences hadn't been present; just that I'm pretty sure they wouldn't have been the '100% gay' that they are.)

I don't know if any of the above made any sense, but here goes, I'm hitting the button anyway...

 

[Hyde_is_my_anti-drug]

Nature determines if you are, nurture helps you get out or not. At least that is how I see it.

Hyde Somehow I am getting the impression ,that you donｴt really try to see both sides it seems like you hide behind yourself being gay

I am not hiding behind anything. I can see it from both view points that doesn't mean I have to agree with one are argue from that view point. I argue with what I believe is right not with what others believe is right. That doesn't mean I AM right, it just means that is what I believe.

Does that mean you can become sexually attracted to them even if you'd never been attracted to that gender before? I've had many close male friends and love them to death. I've never been physically attracted to any of them. In fact, I don't understand how such an event could ever take place.

There is a difference between non-romantic love and romantic love. I believe love (in the romantic sense) knows no boundaries. I am not saying someone's orientation changes because of who they love, I am saying that most people have far to narrow a view on orientation.

So is sexuality conditioned? Theoretically, the claim of so many conservatives that a homosexual couple adopting a child could influence that child's sexuality, intentionally or not?

Of course all gay parents will only raise gay children. Just like straight parents can only raise straight children. If that were the case we wouldn't be having this conversation.

Or is it possible to alter between the two, as HIMA is saying

Please don't put words in my mouth. I said nothing of the kind. I am simply saying that orientation is not as limited as people would like to think.

 

[El P8s]

So you're saying the right person could make someone who's straight feel kinda gay, but not enough to "become gay," but that people who see themselves as completely straight would never be convinced to cross the "sexuality line." If that's true, how is everyone gay and hetero, if they can never be convinced to engage in a particular side? If an option really isn't an option, why is it considered one? That's like saying someone likes cake and pie, but they would never eat pie.

Aren't the "walking the line" people just bi? Is there any real influence required if someone is bisexual in terms of sexuality?

It's not a question of beeing one or the other you are both the only thing that varies is the degree of of beeing attracted to the same or opposite sex and a person who is 99% hethero and 1% gay is just very unlikely to find someone of the same sex attractiv.And an option still remains an option even ,if you decide not to make use of it.
Personally I believe ,that there must be some sort of social aspect connected to it ,because there is no real need for gay animals or people ,because they don't contribute to the reproduction the species ,if you see it from a totally rational point of view.

 

[Hyde_is_my_anti-drug]

Reproduction is over rated. We're over populated as it is.
To me love is love, gender has nothing to do with it. If I could go through life without ever having to use the terms for orientations then I would be a happy woman, unfortunatly in this society one must use labels and it sucks.

Well, it is past 12:30 were I live so I need to sack out. G'night.

 

[-rika- shinya`]

Aren't you just born gay or straight?

i don't think all people are born gay or straight. sure, maybe some. but there are people who aren't. i have a friend who was straight and turned gay later. sometimes if things are serious enough, it could change your sexuality and maybe even your personality at whole. especially for some teenagers, they are emotionally developing very fast and the slightest thing could have a big impact on them

 

[MajideSaiaku]

Sexuality probably is highly effected by genetics, which is why the vast majority of humanity is still heterosexual, and homosexuals are a minority.

Its not a bad genetic trait in that you cannot live a fullfilling life, you got all your limbs and organs and mental facalties, the only real negetive is that evolutionarily speaking its a dead-end, homosexuals cant reproduce.

Conditinos will probably dictate if your a flaming homosexual wearing the lipstick and the shiney colourful clothes and acting feminist, or just and everyday person who happens to dig other blokes/girls, but the actual sexuality of homosexuals is probably genetic.

 

[El P8s]

Sexuality probably is highly effected by genetics, which is why the vast majority of humanity is still heterosexual, and homosexuals are a minority.
Its not a bad genetic trait in that you cannot live a fullfilling life, you got all your limbs and organs and mental facalties, the only real negetive is that evolutionarily speaking its a dead-end, homosexuals cant reproduce.
Conditinos will probably dictate if your a flaming homosexual wearing the lipstick and the shiney colourful clothes and acting feminist, or just and everyday person who happens to dig other blokes/girls, but the actual sexuality of homosexuals is probably genetic.

But wouldn't that beeing highly unlogic?
What is the point of producing something ,which doesn't contribute anything.
I'm only speaking in terms of what would be logical as far as the evolutionary aspect is concerned.

 

[Hyde_is_my_anti-drug]

Actually there is a theory that homosexuality is nature's way of counter balancing.

 

[MajideSaiaku]

Balancing what?......a species need to reproduce and continue?....

Most mutations have a negetive impact which causes the sufferer to lose out to the more normal ones (though sometimes its beneficial...ah evolution at work, people!) and since not being able to reproduce is a big negetive, naturally speaking, theres not many homosexuals, not to mention the fact the random mix of genes from both parents always ensures two gay parents arent garunteed to bring up gay children.

Still, it doesnt effect the fact that in every other aspect of their life, homosexuals are normal everyday folk, so its nothing to discourage.

 

[Hyde_is_my_anti-drug]

There is a theory that nature spits out a homosexual every so often to keep the population from exploding. It's like damage control. For instance, the youngest brother in a large family has a high chance of being gay. The testosterone in the mother's womb starts running out and therefore her sons start to be born less and less "masculine." The more children the mother has, a.k.a the more she reproduces, there is a much higher chance of one of her sons being gay. There are always exceptions, it's perfectly possible for an eldest son to be gay but still I think you can see my point.
If you think about it though, homosexuality could be nature's way of keeping us from over-populating anymore then we already are.

But as a side note: I don't much appreciate being referred to as a "mutation" thanks. You're making it sound as though gays are something less then human which is not true. Whether that was you intent or not I don't know but that's how it comes across.

Also, I'd like to point out (although it should be fairly obvious) that we aren't infertile, we're not incapable of having children. Everything in our bodies still works just fine, we are still physically able to bare children. Now whether our partner is the genetic parent or not does change based on whether it's a gay or straight relationship. But our ability or wish to have children does not die simply because we are gay.

 

[MeAndroo]

Nature determines if you are, nurture helps you get out or not. At least that is how I see it.

So people who are born gay can be nurtured into switching their sexuality? Or does the nurture helping you get out only matter to people with homosexual tendencies?

There is a difference between non-romantic love and romantic love. I believe love (in the romantic sense) knows no boundaries. I am not saying someone's orientation changes because of who they love, I am saying that most people have far to narrow a view on orientation.

And I am saying love has nothing to do with determining sexual orientation, thus is irrelevant. Conversely, sexual orientation is often a vital contributor to romantic love, but that's irrelevant as well.

Sexuality is fluid, it is not set in stone.

Quote:
Or is it possible to alter between the two, as HIMA is saying

Please don't put words in my mouth. I said nothing of the kind. I am simply saying that orientation is not as limited as people would like to think.

Apologies if I misrepresented you, but I'm now incredibly confused at to what your actual stance on this is. Is it possible for orientation to change or not, in your opinion?

But as a side note: I don't much appreciate being referred to as a "mutation" thanks. You're making it sound as though gays are something less then human which is not true.

Actually mutations are one of the ways in which evolution takes place. If anything, it makes gays look like a step nature is taking.

Rika Shinya
i have a friend who was straight and turned gay later. sometimes if things are serious enough, it could change your sexuality and maybe even your personality at whole. especially for some teenagers, they are emotionally developing very fast and the slightest thing could have a big impact on them

I'm curious to know, if it's not too personal, if there was a specific event which triggered this change. I've never heard of switching sexual orientation, only adding another option, i.e. straight to bi.

 

[MajideSaiaku]

There is a theory that nature spits out a homosexual every so often to keep the population from exploding. It's like damage control. For instance, the youngest brother in a large family has a high chance of being gay. The testosterone in the mother's womb starts running out and therefore her sons start to be born less and less "masculine." The more children the mother has, a.k.a the more she reproduces, there is a much higher chance of one of her sons being gay. There are always exceptions, it's perfectly possible for an eldest son to be gay but still I think you can see my point.

Yes but i still disagree, many homosexual men are as masculine as it comes.

If you think about it though, homosexuality could be nature's way of keeping us from over-populating anymore then we already are.
But as a side note: I don't much appreciate being referred to as a "mutation" thanks. You're making it sound as though gays are something less then human which is not true. Whether that was you intent or not I don't know but that's how it comes across.

You can dislike it all you want, mutations are natural, and were all mutants, if only because of the different mix of genes, thats your over-sensitivity at work there not mine, to science, mutations are just that, changes in genetic coding which causes changes to the organism.

Also, I'd like to point out (although it should be fairly obvious) that we aren't infertile, we're not incapable of having children. Everything in our bodies still works just fine, we are still physically able to bare children. Now whether our partner is the genetic parent or not does change based on whether it's a gay or straight relationship. But our ability or wish to have children does not die simply because we are gay.

I never said you were infertile nor did i say gay people do not have the will to have children, still, if in nature an animal is attracted to sexual intercourse with only those of the same gender, its still a dead-end, a species that cant reproduce, for any reason, is finished.

It seems apparent more then once your oversensitivity of your sexual orientation has caused mis-understandings (on your part), i advise you try and contain the urge to feel offended.

Your trying to discuss homosexuality from the lovey fluffy aspect like romance and what-not and stuff, while i think the rest of us are approaching it from a scientific angle, i apologise for the confusion.

 

[Hyde_is_my_anti-drug]

Why is that when someone has an opinion that doesn't match someone else's that the other person thinks they're being "over-sensitive"?

So people who are born gay can be nurtured into switching their sexuality? Or does the nurture helping you get out only matter to people with homosexual tendencies?

No, no, no and no. What I mean by "get out" is "get out of the closet" not getting out of your orientation.

Apologies if I misrepresented you, but I'm now incredibly confused at to what your actual stance on this is. Is it possible for orientation to change or not, in your opinion?

I have been trying to make myself as clear as humanly, or otherwise, possible but obviously it's not working. Orientation is not black and white, I am NOT saying that one can change their orientation I am saying that orientation is not as limited as people think.


Oh, and if I am being "over-sensitive" I apologize, I just don't like it when I get objectified by people. And I am not being sensitive about MY orientation, I know who I am, what I'm talking about is orientation in general. My own personal orientation is actually not much of a touchy subject for me, what IS a touchy subject for me is being called a mutant and being objectified. And I am sorry if you can't see what is so offensive about calling someone a "mutation" but it is offensive.

 

[Kinsao]

I think offence is caused by confusion around the use of the word 'mutation'. In its original form it is a scientific term used to describe changes in genes/cells (not sure of the technicalities... can it be used for both? :? ) and used in this context is a neutral word simply describing a biological occurrance. However, it is also often used in other contexts as an insult, hence the reason someone could feel offended by its use. Technically speaking, though, 'mutation' is not actually an insult, because as someone pointed out, a mutation can be positive or negative, it can be a 'good mutation' that helps the species grow stronger and therefore remains in place.

 

[MeAndroo]

No, no, no and no. What I mean by "get out" is "get out of the closet" not getting out of your orientation.

You should have said no, no, no and yes.

 

[El P8s]

Why is that when someone has an opinion that doesn't match someone else's that the other person thinks they're being "over-sensitive"?

It hasn't really got anything to do with that no one here attacked you because of your opinion ,but you tend to take some things personal ,which are just totally neutral statements.

I have been trying to make myself as clear as humanly, or otherwise, possible but obviously it's not working. Orientation is not black and white, I am NOT saying that one can change their orientation I am saying that orientation is not as limited as people think.

Ok sexuality is a very broad spectrum of gay and/or straight.But what is limited about saying this I do not know.

Oh, and if I am being "over-sensitive" I apologize, I just don't like it when I get objectified by people. And I am not being sensitive about MY orientation, I know who I am, what I'm talking about is orientation in general. My own personal orientation is actually not much of a touchy subject for me, what IS a touchy subject for me is being called a mutant and being objectified. And I am sorry if you can't see what is so offensive about calling someone a "mutation" but it is offensive.

Don't take a generall statement personally and respond to it in a sarcastic manner
It's just a fact ,that as evolution continious nature will produce variations of the original form to find new ways to secure the survival of the species.
And about the theorie of gays beeing having the job of balancing the population and preventing it from exploding.
I think,that wars and epidemics are caused by the stupidity or arroganz or whatever you want to call it probably are better suited to controll the population.

 

[Mitsuo]

I have never questioned my sexuality. I admit that there are attractive guys, but I have no sexual feelings for them, I could never fathom doing anything with a guy, it grosses me out. Like I said before, I see a guy like let's say Brad Pitt, I would say "He's good looking, I bet he get's a lot of women". That doesn't make me gay, that doesn't make me 1% gay. It means that there are attractive people in the world and there are also non attractive people, and that I recognize that. When I see a very attractive Women I tend to feel sexual feelings or thoughts towards them.

I think most people are born gay, due to an embryotic Wash that occurs in the womb. I mean, Most gay men tend to have high almost womenly if not all the way voices. They can't change that. They don't choose to talk like that.
But just because they're born gay, doesn't mean they have to have gay tendencies, like the walk or the voice. A gay man is a women in a mans body, and a gay women is a man in a womens body.

I also think that people can get confused when they get sexually abused as a child. Their minds are still learning and developing. When they get molested by the same gender they start to think that it's normal. Then they tend to become Bi or gay. Of course that's my theory. But I can't say for sure of course.

To me you're either all the way straight, all the way gay, or Bi.

Rika Shina, most likely your friend was hiding the fact that they were gay, or they are bi. I don't think they just decided to change it.

It has been said to that families with all guys w/wife of course, that there is a bigger chance of the youngest son being gay. Whether it's 3 boys or 5. Heard that in psychology class.