Foreign Jrock Fans Survey

Here's my paper:

The Japanese Visual Obsession

The average American male needs about 15 minutes to get dressed to go somewhere. Through on some jeans, a clean(ish) shirt, socks, shoes, comb hair and you're good to go! Most American men don't give much thought to how their appearance effects another's judgment of them as a person, they figure "appearance" or being aware of one's image is a woman's job. Therefore the typical American man not only does not care about High Fashion but wouldn't be caught dead in it either. Baggy jeans and a T-shirt, that's about all anyone can expect from the average American male. In America, guy + fashion = gay and the USA is incredibly homophobic. So not only do men not care about their image but also they feel they can't care for fear of being labeled a "fag."
Now, let us skip over to the other side of the Pacific Ocean to the Land of the Rising Sun...a.k.a. Japan. Not only do their men spend just as much time as women primping (if not more), it is considered a thing of beauty for a man to dress effeminately and in fact it is almost expected of men who hold celebrity status to not only be fashionable but to be so in the sense that a woman would. In Japan image is everything. How one is perceived through the eyes of others is of the up-most importance. No one in Japan would dream of setting foot outside the house s**t-faced and in sweatpants. Everything from hair, makeup, to clothing must be just so. They put much effort into making fashion appear effortless.
High Fashion isn't just for Tokyo runways, it is actually worn on the streets effectively turning it into Street Fashion or Street Style. Mix-matched outfits, perfect hair and makeup are all musts for being seen in public. And yes, it is perfectly normal in Japan for a man to wear makeup (or even a skirt at times). As a matter of fact, a whole genre of Japanese contemporary music has formed around the Japanese obsession with appearance and men who possess and show effeminate beauty. This genre of music is known as Visual Kei or Visual Style in English. The idea behind Visual Kei is that the music supports the image the image does not support the music, meaning the "visual effect" of Live Performances or PVs (Promotional Videos otherwise known in the West as Music Videos) comes first. Image is everything.
Japanese men are also freer in their sexuality which alleviates them of the American concept of what is "gay" and what is "masculine" in terms of fashion and outward behavior. This gives them the freedom to dress as they choose, because to the Japanese how one appears is expression of self. There is no where near the stigma around sexuality in Japan as there is in the West therefore Japanese men are not so worried about being labeled "gay." A man can wear lipstick, tight shirts, and flowing skirts or even kiss another man without being called a "fag" or given strange looks on the street. This level of freedom for a man to express himself is not found in the USA.
Most Americans would be quite shocked if they were to walk through a place such as Harajuku Station where boys and girls alike dress in extravagant outfits ranging from Extreme Street Style to Gothic Lolita (and more commonly then not cross dressing and Cosplay* is also found there). Harajuku is like a Fashion Capital for the youth of Japan, a place where they can be even more free about their choice in dress. Japan is very much a country about expression.

The Japanese Visual Obsession is not just limited to Fashion. It carries over into art, buildings, books and cinema.
- If one looks at a Japanese (or Asian in general) film, and really looks, they will be struck dumb by the cinematic brilliance. The look of the film is just as important as the script and the actors.
- One of the most popular forms of entertainment in Japan is Manga (Graphic Novels in English) but they are not comic books, many of their plots are just as complex as any Virginia Woolf novel just illustrated completely. Words on a blank page is not enough for the Japanese, visual stimulus is vital to the experience of immersing oneself in an imaginary world. The artwork itself found in Manga is typically very stylized giving the story a sense of heightened reality. This holds true for the Television sister of Manga known as Anime (Animated TV Shows) which are commonly based off of Manga.
- The visual effect of architecture is of the highest importance because honestly who wants to live in an ugly building or city? Japanese buildings have a sense of symmetry and yet beauty about them, and in the case of cities they are built to look good with whatever was built beside them. This gives cities like Tokyo a symmetric beauty, a technical elegance and grace which is lacking in most cities in America. We don't care how a building looks just as long as it fulfills its purpose, this results in unattractive cities such as Louisville. But to the Japanese a building must be pleasing to the eye as well as fulfill its purpose because no one wants an eye swore to be plaguing them every time they leave the house to go shopping.

Japan and the Japanese are all about expression. But because everyone expresses no one stands out which gives them security in who they are. The point of Visual Expression is not for them to draw attention to themselves, they avoid that at all costs, but simply to express themselves and to express what they feel is beautiful.

There is nothing wrong with seeking visual beauty in everything, I wish Americans could see that.


*Cosplay - Definition:
To dress oneself in a way that is modeled after/coping the outfit of either: an Anime/Manga character, a character in a film, or a celebrity (typically a celebrity in Visual Kei).
 
Hyde, I dont' have time to comment on everything, but one main issue to consider:

-The America-Japan dichotomy is presented in a VERY polarized way. A reader will be very suspicious. Present evidence. Better yet, be fair. The sign of ANY good paper is to be fair to both sides of an issue, meaning that thought and consideration is given to all relevant persons. Likewise, the last thing I want to see is another attempt to put Japan on a pedestal, which seems implicit in any kind of polarization. Not good for anyone- reader, writer, and especially not Japan. So my point is: be fair, but be critical at the same time (they're not mutually exclusive). This is part of the reason that I was put off by Dr. Miller's paper, too. Although as an academic subject it's relatively new, there is still a great deal missing from her paper.
 
I didn't really write this paper for academic purposes. And quite frankly I think I am being fair. I also tried to use phrases such as "most American man" or "for the most part" so that I'm not completely generalizing. I know that there are exceptions to everything so I tried to keep from glumping ALL Americans into one category. And I'm not trying to raise Japan up on some kind of pedestal at all, I am simply talking about huge differences in their culture and way of thinking as compared to ours and how that is reflected in their visual culture. If I were trying to "raise up Japan" then I would have done a paper on Japanese superiority NOT visual culture. I simply believe that for a country that appears to put so much stall on the visual aspect of things America is really not that visual will compared with other countries. And the only other country that I know enough about to do a paper on is Japan. I am NOT trying to be racist or anything like that but if you really find my paper THAT offensive that I can take it down or something.
 
I like your paper, although I'm not American, I had a chance to visit the country; and many of my friends live there. You didn't generalize at all. Y>our work is good, that's all I wanted to say.Good work Hyde👍
 
I like your paper, I think a lot of fans find Japanese guys appealing because of their style and openness to express themselves in fashionable ways. Especially since in America, men's need to express masculinity can only be shown through a removal of anything considered feminine. I honestly believe it has something to do with the feminist movement making men overcompensate to prove their power. I'd only be careful in explaining homosexuality in Japan, it is still something that is not socially accepted at all there, despite what we might view as behavior saying it's okay. Also, keep in mind European guys share a similar interest in fashion that Japanese guys do.
 
Hey Hyde I dont have enough time for a huge comment lol but I have to say I really liked what you did!! I think you have spoken the truth and thats not showing that Japan is superior or America inferior...but as you said the huge difference of cultures!! Nice job and I totally agree with you, because I think in Mexico the visual expression in men doesnt exist at all and thats pretty sad...all my friends are always calling Jrockers gays! still I think a man is more masculine if he can dress femenine and still be a true man!!!I dont know if I expressed myself correctly but I hope you get my point (thats just my opinion adn Im not generalizing either ok?🙂 )
 
Interesting paper :p it would be even more interesting to see it expanded with examples such as quotations and photos backing up your points, particularly as it is about things visual! :) (although you probably didn't have time to make it like that; after all, you're not writing a book! XD)
 
yukke said:
I like your paper, I think a lot of fans find Japanese guys appealing because of their style and openness to express themselves in fashionable ways. Especially since in America, men's need to express masculinity can only be shown through a removal of anything considered feminine. I honestly believe it has something to do with the feminist movement making men overcompensate to prove their power. I'd only be careful in explaining homosexuality in Japan, it is still something that is not socially accepted at all there, despite what we might view as behavior saying it's okay. Also, keep in mind European guys share a similar interest in fashion that Japanese guys do.
Well, if you note I don't really go into actual homosexuality. In Japan men are freer to experiment, it's true, even encouraged to in their younger years, just as long as they at some point take a wife and have a kid. It's all about the kids in Japan. Note, I never say it's easier to be actually out and gay in Japan, 'cause it isn't, I just say it's not as easy for men to be labeled "fags" there for certain behavior.
And I chose to do my paper on subjects I know about; America and Japan. Europe I don't know as much about so I didn't include it in my paper.

And thanks to everyone who liked my paper! :-)
 
The only other thing I want to note is that what we see in visual kei usually stays on the stage. While guys are trendy and spend tons of money on fashion because trends are constantly changing, men dressing in women's clothes is only deemed okay in performances, on stage, or by celebrities because it's a part of the act (also cosplay which is acting), and the Japanese are very good at knowing the difference between reality and fiction.

Most vk artist do not dress like they do on stage everyday. And a lot of people find visual kei disgusting and unappealing in Japan now, especially since it's gone out of popularity since the late 90s.

I think like you said, there is a level of freedom they have to express themselves, but it's also segregated to. Like in Harajuku, it's appropriate there, usually it's seen on weekends, and the majority of cosplayers in vk clothes are girls, since the fanbase for vk is mostly girls.

I was wondering, where did you get your information from?
 
Thank you for the link Yukke. :)

Edit: I couldn't resist taking a bit of a look through my professional researcher eye 😊 interesting... the majority of people, have Dir en grey as their first j-rock band (66), followed by by Malice Mizer with 38 and X Japan with 31. Laruku also quite close at 25, and Gackt at 19 and Glay at 12 are the other double-figure ones. (I counted every mention for example if someone mentioned X Japan and Laruku I'd put them down one time for each band.)

I was also interested in why people liked j-rock... overwhelmingly, people said things like 'original', 'different', 'unique', 'unusual', 'variety'. I didn't count numbers for people who just said they liked 'the music' or 'the instruments' because, well, it is a genre of music that you were asking about, so that sort of goes without saying! But I did take a closer look at some of the 'musical specifics' (if I can call it that, lol) that people mentioned...

After the 'originality/difference thing', the next vastly most attractive element it seemed was the visuals, with people mentioning 'visuals', 'looks', 'costumes', 'appearence' or 'pretty boys' (XD) among other things. Also related, 10 people mentioned aspects of performance and/or the 'environment' in which the music operates. 8 people mentioned things related to the personalities of the musicians, their attitudes/approaches, and/or the way they relate to the fans.

Music-specifically, 18 people singled out the vocals for praise, 15 people like the language, and 10 people like the lyrics particularly. 6 people like the melodies, 6 the compositions, 6 the rhythm/beat and 4 specifically mentioned the guitars. 2 people said they felt the music was intricate or complex, 2 people like the use of the bass (I was surprised this number was so low! O_o) and one person particularly likes the use of synths. Interestingly, one person mentioned that they liked the fact it is somewhat 'anti-conventional', and another person mentioned the relative lack of drugs in the j-music scene as an attractive aspect.

Mehh, sorry to go on and on! :sorry: I just can never resist an analysis. I'm not a geek - honestly! (yeah like who am I kidding!) 😌 :(
 
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Thanks Coshh for doing some numbers, I have yet to do it myself. I am having fun reading the results though, it's really interesting.

And I must of missed the person who mentioned the lack of drugs...how funny-Don't they know about Dashi from PLC's drug incident? heh

I think more people would mention the visuals and "pretty boys" if they were interviewed in person, more confidential, since I think it's a big factor in us girls liking it so much. Music first since it speaks for itself, but definitely visuals are an added bonus, don't you think?
 
yukke said:
Thanks Coshh for doing some numbers, I have yet to do it myself. I am having fun reading the results though, it's really interesting.
It was kind of accidental - I couldn't resist it... it just happened... :unsure: 😌 I must have been a statistician in another life. :unsure:

And I must of missed the person who mentioned the lack of drugs...how funny-Don't they know about Dashi from PLC's drug incident? heh
Very true... anyone who thinks Japanese musicians are any more angelic than any other musicians must be a bit naive... I think what the person might have been driving at was that there tends to be less prominence of drugs... sure, there are incidents... and stuff goes on... but there's less of what you might call obvious drug-fuelled-ness... Laws on certain drugs are stricter in Japan than the UK (I dunno about the US), and I think that gives the impression that less drugs go on behind the music scenes... whether that is true or not, I don't know... I have heard from someone who lived in Japan that although laws are stricter on some drugs, others (including crystal meth) are quite easy to get hold of.

Also, I don't know if it makes any difference, but it seems that j-rockers continue their careers for quite a number of years of their lives... sure, we get 'old rockers' here, but drugs and overall the lifestyle tend to take their toll and age them... whereas j-rockers tend to remain quite 'young'... probably partly physiological, but again, it gives more of an impression that they take more care of their health in order to stay fit for work.

I think more people would mention the visuals and "pretty boys" if they were interviewed in person, more confidential, since I think it's a big factor in us girls liking it so much.
Hmm, I wonder if that's true? I got the impression from the responses that a lot of people were happy to 'admit' to liking many of the visual aspects of j-rock (well, VK really) - possibly even because the survey is anonymous and kind of 'hidden' behind its onlineness. It was also quite noticeable (IMO) not only the prominence given to the visual aspect as a major 'attraction factor', but also the way that the majority of people were quite pointed in mentioning the music first and foremost, and the visual aspect afterwards and in some cases not at all. Very, very few people mentioned only the visual aspect.

Music first since it speaks for itself, but definitely visuals are an added bonus, don't you think?
Yeah, true, that is more or less what I just said I guess. ^^ But I think "added bonus" is exactly most people's attitude, rather than seeing them as the be-all and end-all. Also, the visual aspect was often mentioned as part of what makes the music 'different' from European or American music - so in that sense I suppose it contributes to the 'uniqueness' of j-rock that was so often mentioned. 😌

It's a very interesting survey; thank you for showing it to us and good luck in your research! 👍
 
yukke said:
The only other thing I want to note is that what we see in visual kei usually stays on the stage. While guys are trendy and spend tons of money on fashion because trends are constantly changing, men dressing in women's clothes is only deemed okay in performances, on stage, or by celebrities because it's a part of the act (also cosplay which is acting), and the Japanese are very good at knowing the difference between reality and fiction.
Most vk artist do not dress like they do on stage everyday. And a lot of people find visual kei disgusting and unappealing in Japan now, especially since it's gone out of popularity since the late 90s.
I think like you said, there is a level of freedom they have to express themselves, but it's also segregated to. Like in Harajuku, it's appropriate there, usually it's seen on weekends, and the majority of cosplayers in vk clothes are girls, since the fanbase for vk is mostly girls.
I was wondering, where did you get your information from?

Now, I would argue some of that but obviously nothing I'm going to say will be credited so I will just shut up.

Oh, and I got my information from actual surveys and polls taken in Japan, interviews, articles, and books on the subjects that I wrote about. As well as talking to actual Japanese (foreign exchange students mostly). I think you will find that the youth of Japan is much more open and free about things like sexuality, fashion etc.
 
I don't disagree that the youth are more open and free about things like fashion, but sexuality...Just going with a group of Japanese students to the Halloween West Hollywood parade and seeing their reactions to two guys making out on the street proved that they've never seen anything like that before, they said it was okay in the context since it was West Hollywood, but in Japan, not okay and they actually said it would be disgusting. When I was in Japan it was somewhat of the same thing when I asked about behaviors that Japanese men present (ones we may consider more sexual in nature), they said it's okay if it's a performance or a joke with friends (because it's humor to them), but couldn't imagine it if it were real. I just don't think you should assume everyone over there is bisexual or something cause that would be wrong.

But in terms of media, I suggest looking at Japan's representation of a gay man protrayed by the comedian HG-san, short for "Hard Gay." He's not a homosexual but portrays a gay stereotype as comedy. This is how they view homosexuality, and what you see as more openness to sexuality, is actually just the normal way people were socialized to intereact, as well as what is appropriate on stage.

I don't want to argue and I feel bad to because your paper presents a nice view of Japan, it's a bit idealized, but definitely what many fans feel Japan is like from what we see of it. I hope you will do more research though and write more papers.
 
Well, it would seem we move in different circles when it comes to Japan. Most of the Japanese I've talked with are very open to things like homosexuality. But as I said before my paper isn't really about ACTUAL homosexuality. And I don't believe everyone there is bisexual, just where did you get the idea that I did? Expression has nothing to do with actual sexuality, that's something I was TRYING to show in my paper. Obviously that didn't work.

And if you look in terms of media, look at how many yaoi manga are sold in Japan yearly. Honestly. Look at those states. It's almost alarming.

"Idealized", really? If I had said Japan was "the perfect place to live" or something then I could understand that statement but that is NOT what I am saying. Japan has pros and cons just like any other nation and I am not trying to make it seem otherwise.
 
ahh this discussion looks really interesting.... too bad i can't ready those long posts just yet.. must finish up some work hehe.. but i would definitely like to come back to this thread and read over the comments then put in my two cents.. hopefully....
 
yukke said:
Hi, I'm a graduate student doing my master's thesis research on the globalization of Japanese popular culture, especially jrock, and its effect on youth culture abroad.
If anyone has time, I would really appreciate you filling out my survey online. Your answers would really help me in my research.
here is the link:
http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.asp?u=756091947920
Thank you!
the link is closed:(
 
I'm sorry, I ended up closing the link because I reached a good solid number of people who took the survey (225).
 
Anyway, I'm sure you will have some interesting writing to do, with the survey results. 😌
I often wanted to do some such research, but it entails a lot, to do it properly and thoroughly... I could do research from the internet, but when it comes to actually interviewing people face to face, or going to Japan to research, I couldn't do it, not with a full-time job on the go. 😭
So good luck in your work! :p
And Precious, discuss if you want to... it's open thread... no one has to discuss if they don't want to... but everyone is free to comment if they like... :haihai:
 
ah well i'll just keep my comments nice and short......well i think Japanese culture is pretty is interesting....but basically Japan is still a really strict society that is based on tradition and formalities (they still do look down on homosexuals though their idea of beauty is different than the US). And also due to the large population and tight living spaces people tend to get "suffocated." So there are many interesting way that Japanese express themselves. I think Visual Kei is one of those ways.... but hey they also have places where you can smash things and love hotels....

Just what i think... you can comment on it or not but i just wanted to post it..
 
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