I haven't been really been following this thread very much, but I think that Caster'S point is that if the U.S. government gave material and moral support to those volunteer efforts, then the U.S.'s official stance of neutrality at the time was what one would call "tatemae" in Japanese, but the "honne" was active hostility towards Japan.
In other words, America's moral high ground is due only to a technicallity.
...the fact that American's under the threat of losing their citizenship, volunteered to fight against the Japanese and Germans prior to the "official" declaration of war against all three Axis countries.
If what Caster says is true (and I don't think it's a stretch, really. Certainly within the realm of possibility), then how real do you think that threat of losing their citizenship really was?indeed , they were organized and suppoted by US government
whether it was voluntary or not is not related with Japan.
indeed , they were organized and suppoted by US government
as for Japan, it was WAR without Declaration of war that US did Preemptive strike
.because Japan was the aggressor in China
Caster as much as I hate to say this, you are the first person that I am putting on my "ignore" list here. From now on I will not be reading nor responding to any of your posts. I wish you well
Personally I am not sure, however it took plenty of guts to do what they did. THe AVG force's record in China was outstanding, and they were one of the major reasons that Japan was unable to advance into India.then how real do you think that threat of losing their citizenship really was?
In other words, America's moral high ground is due only to a technicallity.
Japan never started the war in the first place in chinathen Marco Polo Bridge Incident happed...
Japan and KMT fell in the trap of the communist party.
窶ｰﾃ､窶禄经ﾃｦﾃｮ窶愿ｺ窶怒窶｢ﾃｼ窶認谈过ﾂ。窶伉ｼ们说ﾂ，ﾅ徒对窶｢s窶ｹNﾂ，窶愿ｺ窶怒ﾂ皇军ﾂ侵窶板ｪ窶板ｹ窶吮??ﾂ・ 窶伉。窶ｰﾃ､说∶窶｢sﾂ！窶砺窶猫你们ﾂ皇军ﾂ侵窶板ｪ窶佚･窶敖ｼﾋ慊｢窶吮??ﾂ坂?伉，窶吮??ﾂ坂?伉人窶督ｯﾂ就窶｢s窶拿 团结窶ｹN窶藩?#23545;窶｢t你们ﾂ，窶吮??ﾂ坂??..ﾂ就夺ﾅｽﾃｦ窶｢s窶板ｹﾂ青ｭ权ﾂ！ﾂ」ﾂ【ﾂ静?#35265;窶愿ｺ窶怒ﾅｽﾃ絶?ｰﾃｯﾂ・ }ﾂ人ﾅｽmﾂ債ｲﾂ債ｲ窶禿伉更ﾅｽOﾂ、ﾃｼK窶彡ﾅｽﾃｵ窶冕ﾂ、细窶昶?版停?愬津ｵ窶懌┐窶廬谈话1964.7.10ﾂ・ z
Mao said.....
Translation: "I have talked to my Japanese friends. They said, 'We are sorry, the Imperial Japanese army invaded China.' I told them, 'No! If your Imperial army did not occupy half of China, the people of China would not have united against you, and we will not be in power today.'
"the War of Resistance Against the Japanese 『抗日戰爭』。
And only revisionists who, in my opinion, just want to "save face" are trying (unsuccessfully) to say otherwise
Umm. Arent the Southern Koreans the severest in the world now?According to George Lynch, The War of the Civilizations
there are some discription that ...窶弖窶凖??版ｽﾂ湘ｩ窶堙個催帚?弖窶凖ηｽs窶督ｯ窶堙債、ﾂ「窶佚･窶愿ｺ窶怒ﾂ鞘?｡窶督ｯﾂ」窶堙?鞘?倪?堋｢窶堙??愿ｺﾂ湘最?ﾃｸ窶堙ｰﾅ断窶堋ｰ窶堙??愿ｺ窶怒ﾅ坦窶堙嫁?'ﾅｽﾃ凪?堙戸?凪?堙ｰ窶｢\窶督ｾ窶堋ｵ窶堋ｽﾂ。
Tianjin ppl ,they expressed gratitude to Japanese army
japanese military regulations was the severest in the world
btw it is very intersting to read
According to George Lynch, The War of the Civilizations
there are some discription that ...窶弖窶凖??版ｽﾂ湘ｩ窶堙個催帚?弖窶凖ηｽs窶督ｯ窶堙債、ﾂ「窶佚･窶愿ｺ窶怒ﾂ鞘?｡窶督ｯﾂ」窶堙?鞘?倪?堋｢窶堙??愿ｺﾂ湘最?ﾃｸ窶堙ｰﾅ断窶堋ｰ窶堙??愿ｺ窶怒ﾅ坦窶堙嫁?'ﾅｽﾃ凪?堙戸?凪?堙ｰ窶｢\窶督ｾ窶堋ｵ窶堋ｽﾂ。
Tianjin ppl ,they expressed gratitude to Japanese army
japanese military regulations was the severest in the world
btw it is very intersting to read
dspace.nitle.org/bitstream/10090/472/1/au_simon_2007_ba.
First.. I have no idea what you are trying to say by saying "serverest in the world"
I'm sure there were a FEW people that were happy but obviously things didn't work out and Japan became unwanted. Seriously Caster, according to wikipedia 17,530,000 Chinese civilians were killed between 1937-1945 as a result of the war with the Japanese. I don't think it was because the were all partying too hard for rejoice of the Japanese being there.
And what are you trying to say with the link you set? That person's thesis doesn't deny Japanese war crimes or responsibility. Are you trying to say Japanese behavior was excusable because of the circumstances and environment? What point are you trying to make with that article?
And you never answered my rebuttal about Japanese advance/aggression. How is it that the war was not a result of the Japanese pushing their way forcefully through China?
And what are you trying to say with the link you set? That person's thesis doesn't deny Japanese war crimes or responsibility. Are you trying to say Japanese behavior was excusable because of the circumstances and environment? What point are you trying to make with that article?
And you never answered my rebuttal about Japanese advance/aggression. How is it that the war was not a result of the Japanese pushing their way forcefully through China?
:smoke::smoke:Japan never invaded china.
First off let me tell you that the US never had any intentions to drop the atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki it only happened just because of poor navagation, and a faulty bomb bay hatch.
ﾅｽ窶凪?｢ﾃ?.......ﾅ遅ﾅｽ@窶氾坂?堙??堙坂?凖≫?凖ｨ窶堋ｵ窶慊ｾ窶堙遺?堋｢窶凖ｶ窶忸窶堙個湘ｯ窶板青（窶堋ｶ窶堙･窶堋､窶堙ｧ窶堙ｱﾂ：ﾂ「窶板絶?堙ｪ窶倪?ｺ窶堋ｮﾅｽ窶督」窶堙娯?ｹ`ﾂ）ﾂ。ﾂ坂?伉催崘?ﾃ披?堙個静ｩﾂ静ｭ窶｢zﾂ債絶?堙遺?堋ｫﾂ静ｭ窶侏?」Again tell me how Japan did not invade China?
ﾅｽ窶凪?｢ﾃ?.......ﾅ遅ﾅｽ@窶氾坂?堙??堙坂?凖≫?凖ｨ窶堋ｵ窶慊ｾ窶堙遺?堋｢窶凖ｶ窶忸窶堙個湘ｯ窶板青（窶堋ｶ窶堙･窶堋､窶堙ｧ窶堙ｱﾂ：ﾂ「窶板絶?堙ｪ窶倪?ｺ窶堋ｮﾅｽ窶督」窶堙娯?ｹ`ﾂ）ﾂ。ﾂ坂?伉催崘?ﾃ披?堙個静ｩﾂ静ｭ窶｢zﾂ債絶?堙遺?堋ｫﾂ静ｭ窶侏?」
at that time, in china, the condition was civil War by KMT and CCP.
it means it was not ﾂ坂?伉催崘?ﾃ披?堙個静ｩﾂ静ｭ窶｢zﾂ債絶?堙遺?堋ｫﾂ静ｭ窶侏?」there was no Gorvenment that was recognized...
How does that make not make it an invasion?
Are you trying to say that calling what Japan did to China in the 1930's and 40's an invasion, is the same as calling the events in Shanghai in 2004 an invasion?