difficult ? on Imperial family?

Sukotto

先輩

9 Jul 2003

1,426

20

• 17 Mar 2005

• #1

This might be a difficult one. Like: Why is he asking such?
I hope I do not offend by simply inquiring.

Often times if I am involved in a political-type discussion
online I'll write "royalty" in quotes. Because queens & kings
are basically family dictatorships and
bogus like wannabe oligarchs in the States.

Currently, according to online websites espousing such,
there is a movement to get rid of the royal family and
establish a republic in England.

My question is, and I hope I do not offend with this,
I am only asking and not advocating for such-

is there any or would there ever
be any movement to disolve the Imperial family?

 

Last edited: 17 Mar 2005

Mycernius

The Hairy Wookie

4 Feb 2005

4,644

203

• 17 Mar 2005

• #2

There has been a movement to remove the Royal family in Britain since Oliver Cromwell. He succeeded, but when he died the country and the government thought Charles II would be better than Richard Cromwell. The republicans pop up every now and then, but they never get far. The royal family are still fairly popular despite what the some newspapers want. I'm not sure on the popularity of the Imperial family in Japan, but I always get the view that they are popular with the people. You'll still get people wanting to get rid of any royal family anywhere, but they are usually a minority. There are even some movements in some countries to try and bring back their Royal families.

 

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Hiroshi66

先輩

17 May 2004

582

14

• 22 Mar 2005

• #3

Mycernius is right about Britain. After both world wars, especially I, when monarchies all over Europe were falling apart (Germany, Russia, Austria-Hungary, etc) strong republican movements erupted, but to no avail.

In Japan, there was quite a call for killing off the imperial line by various shoguns who felt their power slipping, but conservatives persuaded them to exile the current emperor and replace him with a minor. After the war, there were calls from both the SCAP and left-wing Japanese to abolish the monarchy, but thanks to Yoshida Shigeru and MacArthur, they were sustained.

 

Mycernius

The Hairy Wookie

4 Feb 2005

4,644

203

• 22 Mar 2005

• #4

I think the monarchy survived in Britian after WWI because George V purposely distanced himself from the German line by changing the name to Windsor, and by keeping well away from the politics. In Germany and Russia the monarchy involved itself in the war. The failures meant that Nicolas II was desposed and killed, and Kaiser Wilhelm had to go into exile. Any failures in Britain were blamed on the government, not the king.

 

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Hiroshi66

先輩

17 May 2004

582

14

• 22 Mar 2005

• #5

Good point. You are probably right.

What about the other monarchies of the world - for instance, Turkey. Their monarch was exiled in 1923 after the proclomation of the Turkish Republic under Ataturk. Now, an heir of the Osmanli dynasty lives in the US. The government recently allowed the Osmanli family to return to Turkey. Is there a chance that the monarchy will be restored in Turkey, like a constitutional monarchy in the UK and Japan?

 

bossel

後輩

28 Sep 2003

1,485

45

• 22 Mar 2005

• #6

Hiroshi66 said:

What about the other monarchies of the world - for instance, Turkey. Their monarch was exiled in 1923 after the proclomation of the Turkish Republic under Ataturk. Now, an heir of the Osmanli dynasty lives in the US. The government recently allowed the Osmanli family to return to Turkey. Is there a chance that the monarchy will be restored in Turkey, like a constitutional monarchy in the UK and Japan?

Click to expand...

Highly improbable! The guardians of the Turkish republic, the military, would immediately oust the government if it tried to re-impose the monarchy.

 

Sukotto

先輩

9 Jul 2003

1,426

20

• 22 Mar 2005

• Thread starter
• #7

In Afghanistan while the US bombed there was talk of bringing back their king to 'stablize' or 'unify' the country or something.
While no fan of such, I'm definately not trying to start any anti-emperor movement or anything.
I have mixed feelings about the kings. I certainly would not want to be a cultural
imperialist and try to force the way I would like to see the world on other people.
Like say, with indigenous peoples who have lived however they have for however long.
If they choose to keep their traditional societal structures, so be it. It is up to people to reform their society if they choose to. IMO, to go in and smash up traditional cultures is genocide plain and simple. And thus very nazi-like.

 

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Hiroshi66

先輩

17 May 2004

582

14

• 22 Mar 2005

• #8

Bossel ~ Very true, my friend. Sad, but true. The military is already loosing its patience with the conservative and moderate Islamist government (which I support, though I am a Christian), so a move like this would bring about a coup similar to that of 1960 or 1980. Still though, even if they were figurehead monarchs? For cultural reasons. The Osman dynasty is one of the oldest dynasties in the world.

Sukotto ~ Afghanistan? Yeah, definately. I heard that the US army wanted to reinstate the Afghan and Iraqi monarchies to stabilize the area. But they would be basically installing puppets, like Pu Yi's episode with the Japanese in Manchuria in 1931.

Austria too can reinstate its monarchy, same with Germany. There were talk in 1993 when Cambodia became democratic that the monarchy would be extinguished, but this was turned down because the Khmer monarchy was vital to Cambodian life. I wonder if Austria, Germany, and hopefully Turkey will reinstate their monarchies and keep democracy.

 

Sukotto

先輩

9 Jul 2003

1,426

20

• 30 Mar 2005

• Thread starter
• #9

on genocide

Sukotto said:

IMO, to go in and smash up traditional cultures is genocide plain and simple. And thus very nazi-like.

Click to expand...

I should probably be careful when I use such words like nazi
or genocide. I've posted the following link to the Convention
on Genocide for any further discussion in that direction.


Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide
http://www.unhchr.ch/html/menu3/b/p_genoci.htm


I've once read some where that Hitler and the nazis looked
to the US in its western expansion for their expansion in eastern Europe.
Certainly what occurred (and in many places still occuring) in the
Americas is genocide with respect to the indigenous first nations.
East Timor is another place in which I believe that term can be
aptly applied. What with an illegally occupying army giving
depo provera shots to the local women and having killed 1/3 of
the pre-invasion polulation.


but all that aside,
do any of you think smashing up locals' traditional societal structures
constitutes genocide?

 

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Hiroshi66

先輩

17 May 2004

582

14

• 30 Mar 2005

• #10

Of course. Cambodia... city people were turned into farmers overnight.. that's genocide. Changing traditional society will obviously be met with resistance.. which is met with a reprisal and murder.