COVID-19 Coronavirus: situation in Japan

[thomas]

Just opened:

Just to make sure: Tokyo Disneyland is still closed.

東京ディズニーリゾート・オフィシャルウェブサイト

東京ディズニーリゾートでは、遊ぶこと、泊まること、食べること、ショッピング、すべてがエンターテイメント！東京ディズニーランド、東京ディズニーシーの2つのテーマパークを中心とした滞在型テーマリゾートです。

www.tokyodisneyresort.jp

 

[musicisgood]

It's happening in Washington state. When you go to a restaurant , one must give name, address, phone number, email and show ID.
If you been following my updates with "street talk" (just google it ), you'll see I've been pretty much spot on.
I'm going to say this: if you live in a major city in the US, get out while you can. Los Angeles just said another 3 month lock down now. LA will most likely burn down this summer. Remember the Rodney King riots, that is going to be child's play to what will take place in LA this summer.
Also, here in Yamaguchi, we now see a lot of cars with different prefecture license plates. Yes, people have left their areas and moving back to their hometown. No work, can't pay the rent, can't pay the utilities and so on.

For those interested: House Dems unveil coronavirus bill estimated to cost $3T, in largest stimulus package yet

I don't care what you may think of my post, but America is sinking too fast. You now have people making 2 times more on unemployment then they were working . I've been saying this about my "spider web trap". Its all coming into place.
If you read the relief bill, you'll understand the hidden message : banks will not make new loans, therefore the banks will collapse along with the American way of life. Everyone will become a prisoner of the evil bastards that created this. I hope Japan doesn't fall into this trap, which if you listened to the news last night about the car industry, you know its dead other then the output in China and America. But the American plants are going to be very iffy if rioting starts happening this summer due to extended lockdowns.

 

[misternada]

This article might be of interest to some:

Japan sees rise in harassment, bullying and discrimination linked to COVID-19

Japan is seeing a growing number of cases of harassment, bullying and other forms of discrimination targeting local communities affected by the outbreak of

www.japantimes.co.jp

Although it is never mentioned in the news in Japan, I think we might see a surge of xenophobic reaction towards foreigners.

 

[bentenmusume]

Although it is never mentioned in the news in Japan, I think we might see a surge of xenophobic reaction towards foreigners.

Do you have any basis for thinking this?
COVID's been going around for a couple of months now; have you personally been treated any different in that time?

There may have been some examples of xenophobia toward the Chinese back near the start of the breakout, but I'd hardly even expect that now given that even Wuhan basically has the virus under control.

Honestly, I've seen and heard about far more examples of xenophobia reactions toward Asian-looking people in Western countries than non-Asians in Japan. (It doesn't help that the president of the United States continues to call it the "Chinese virus" and deflect legitimate questions about the US government's handling of the crisis by repeatedly saying "What about China? Why don't you ask China?")

 

[misternada]

Do you have any basis for thinking this?
COVID's been going around for a couple of months now; have you personally been treated any different in that time?

For the last couple of months, I've noticed on a few occasions people changing sidewalk or got the occasional "evil eyes", it also happens in normal times so I cannot say it is related to the pandemic.

Could not go out much for the last month, but yesterday I was able to go for a walk in the park with a friend, there were a lot of people some wearing mask other did not, as we were walking on paths in wooded area (you don't see people coming until they are close by), at one point a guy was walking our way, when he notice us he looked panicked, covered his mouth with his hands and started running to bypass us, it was too strange to go unnoticed, there was also a woman wearing a mask, covering her mouth when she passed us.

I think those behaviors are related to the pandemic and related to seeing foreigner as potential carriers.

I would be surprised if no foreigner experience any weird behaviors when riding the train or going to a shop those days, but as always those kind of things are better kept silent in Japan.

 

[musicisgood]

For the last couple of months, I've noticed on a few occasions people changing sidewalk or got the occasional "evil eyes", it also happens in normal times so I cannot say it is related to the pandemic.

Could not go out much for the last month, but yesterday I was able to go for a walk in the park with a friend, there were a lot of people some wearing mask other did not, as we were walking on paths in wooded area (you don't see people coming until they are close by), at one point a guy was walking our way, when he notice us he looked panicked, covered his mouth with his hands and started running to bypass us, it was too strange to go unnoticed, there was also a woman wearing a mask, covering her mouth when she passed us.

I think those behaviors are related to the pandemic and related to seeing foreigner as potential carriers.

I would be surprised if no foreigner experience any weird behaviors when riding the train or going to a shop those days, but as always those kind of things are better kept silent in Japan.

Wow!

 

[misternada]

Wow!

Actually during my walk there was a guy with a very long stick, some kind of walking stick, hitting the bushes like a devil, killing a rat I guess.
Thank God that one did not care for us !

Anyway I would recommend to all foreigners in Japan to be extra cautious as some of the locals are on the edge.

 

[johnnyG]

For the last couple of months, I've noticed on a few occasions people changing sidewalk or got the occasional "evil eyes", it also happens in normal times so I cannot say it is related to the pandemic.

Could not go out much for the last month, but yesterday I was able to go for a walk in the park with a friend, there were a lot of people some wearing mask other did not, as we were walking on paths in wooded area (you don't see people coming until they are close by), at one point a guy was walking our way, when he notice us he looked panicked, covered his mouth with his hands and started running to bypass us, it was too strange to go unnoticed, there was also a woman wearing a mask, covering her mouth when she passed us.

I think those behaviors are related to the pandemic and related to seeing foreigner as potential carriers.

I would be surprised if no foreigner experience any weird behaviors when riding the train or going to a shop those days, but as always those kind of things are better kept silent in Japan.

So were you and your friend wearing masks?

That's a key point, which you left out.

 

[bentenmusume]

@misternada

Sigh.

With all due respect, could you ease up on the fearmongering just a bit?

_Everyone_ is on edge these days, and for good reason--these are frustrating and uncertain times. But these repeated assertions of rampant anti-foreigner sentiment based on little but your vague and subjective impressions of people looking at you funny (especially given your history of always painting Japanese people in the worst possible light) are presenting a distorted and grotesque version of Japan that isn't really warranted.

Just to provide a counter-argument, I have been going about my business as usual, trying to be circumspect, and I can assure you that no Japanese person has treated me like I am somehow a walking infection risk (which is more than can be said about how some nurses and medical staff workers have been treated by some people, sadly).

For all your talk about Japanese xenophobia, I can't help but feel like your posts show more xenophobia toward Japanese people than any of the Japanese people I know have shown towards me.

But again, I don't know. Maybe our experiences are just different.

 

[mdchachi]

LA will most likely burn down this summer. Remember the Rodney King riots, that is going to be child's play to what will take place in LA this summer.

Highly unlikely. Especially if they are making more than 2x on unemployment as you asserted.

You now have people making 2 times more on unemployment then they were working .

If you're referring to the so-called $24/hour pay rate, that's a temporary measure and since people can't work right now anyway, it won't prevent them from entering the workforce. See this article for details.

banks will not make new loans, therefore the banks will collapse along with the American way of life.

That won't happen. They'll pump additional dollars and add to the national debt before they let the banks fail as they did in 2008.

at one point a guy was walking our way, when he notice us he looked panicked, covered his mouth with his hands and started running to bypass us, it was too strange to go unnoticed,

If you could do us all a favor, obtain a body cam and use it in your daily life. And show us the video when these things happen. If it's all as dramatic as you make it sound, you could have a profitable youtube channel.

But again, I don't know. Maybe our experiences are just different.

Every time he posts this stuff, the only reason for these reactions that makes any sense in my mind is that perhaps his appearance is atypical. I imagine he looks something like this:

 

[mdchachi]

Speaking of the Covid situation in Japan. So far there seem to be no "hidden deaths" which is great news. If this holds, this means despite all the bungling and half-assed measures Japan is somehow doing very well relatively speaking.

Tokyo has not seen an increase in overall deaths during the coronavirus outbreak, boosting Japanese officials' assertions that they have largely kept infections under control despite criticism over the limited scope of its testing. The capital saw 33,106 deaths in the three months through March, 0.4% fewer than the average of the previous four years for the same period, according to data from the Tokyo Metropolitan Government. Data for April, when new daily virus cases peaked in the city, is not yet available.

 

[Lothor]

Speaking of the Covid situation in Japan. So far there seem to be no "hidden deaths" which is great news. If this holds, this means despite all the bungling and half-assed measures Japan is somehow doing very well relatively speaking.

Tokyo has not seen an increase in overall deaths during the coronavirus outbreak, boosting Japanese officials' assertions that they have largely kept infections under control despite criticism over the limited scope of its testing. The capital saw 33,106 deaths in the three months through March, 0.4% fewer than the average of the previous four years for the same period, according to data from the Tokyo Metropolitan Government. Data for April, when new daily virus cases peaked in the city, is not yet available.

I was discussing this article with a few people on Facebook. I pointed out that in the early stages of the pandemic in the UK there were fewer deaths nationwide than normal. A doctor with a column in a national magazine (MD in Private Eye if any Brits are reading this) put it down to better personal hygiene and less risky behaviour - certainly we are not renowned for our fastidious hygiene! Since then the increase in deaths due to corona has swamped this decrease. There was also much less influenza than normal in Japan this winter, possibly because nearly everyone was masked up and washing their hands more. A Finnish guy said a similar thing happened in his country.
So while the figure suggests there has not been a large hidden tragedy, I'd be cautious about reading too much into it. I think the figures for April and May will be much more important for assessing what has been happening.

 

[mdchachi]

I was discussing this article with a few people on Facebook. I pointed out that in the early stages of the pandemic in the UK there were fewer deaths nationwide than normal. A doctor with a column in a national magazine (MD in Private Eye if any Brits are reading this) put it down to better personal hygiene and less risky behaviour - certainly we are not renowned for our fastidious hygiene! Since then the increase in deaths due to corona has swamped this decrease. There was also much less influenza than normal in Japan this winter, possibly because nearly everyone was masked up and washing their hands more. A Finnish guy said a similar thing happened in his country.
So while the figure suggests there has not been a large hidden tragedy, I'd be cautious about reading too much into it. I think the figures for April and May will be much more important for assessing what has been happening.

That's my main point -- due to the serious lack of testing I had a lot of questions about the number of hidden deaths.
Considering that Japan was among the first to get COVID19, it's clear that Japan is somehow following a different path than other countries despite the incoherent government response. I agree it's not at all conclusive. Certainly such good news can be counterproductive because it may lead people to be careless. And, as you say, the numbers for April and May will be more telling.

 

[Majestic]

There was a hot thread on twitter talking about this, which might be interesting for some people.



The two big takeaways for me;
1. Japan's outcome (be it a result of policy, or cultural factors, or both) puts it among the top nations (yet it doesn't get recognized for its exemplary results). (We had a similar conversation here a few weeks ago).
2. In the responses there are some comments relating to the lack of available data. In particular, the data relating to mortality in Tokyo is incomplete, yet commentators are drawing premature conclusions from it.

The lack of testing and the difficulty in securing emergency care (even for celebrities like the sumo rikishi who passed away) will continue to be a blemish on the Japanese response. Regardless, the outcome in terms of national health seems to be very close to Korea, which is widely seen as being among the best in the world at responding to covid.

(written while mdchachi made his last post, so some of this repeats what he says)

 

[musicisgood]

I would like to say that Japan tourist industry is dead. It will only come back when people feel safe from being free of the virus. Its and air borne virus that changes as much as the wind does. This staying your distance of 6 to 9 feet is false security. Anyway, this virus has shut down the free international travel for tourist around the world. In Okinawa now the Governor has released figures of no infections for the last 9 days. Every wonder why... whose testing who ?

The very same here on the mainland, who's testing who. Probably the only place to really get tested is at a university hospital since they by now have all been educated on conditions they are to face with patients with the corona virus.

I can't believe with the subways and trains ( comparing New York city ) that even less then 1000 deaths have been reported in Japan. Totally unreal figures.
Also the infections are extremely low. One thing to think about, there is no incentive to treat patients since the price of all things medical are tapped / controlled prices.

Personally, I'm wearing a mask when I go outdoors and I plan to take a 11 hour local train ride in June. If someone decides to sit next to me without a mask I'll remove myself. Out in the countryside you still see maybe 8 out of 10 elderly men NOT wearing a mask outdoors. But this is mostly out in the villages.

I did hear 4 ambulances in one day, but I think it was all the farmers outdoors getting their fields ready.

I just don't believe what is truly going on, period.

And I still haven't heard a word about 100000 yen being given.

 

[bentenmusume]

I'm rather heartened by these articles, as they seem to back up much of what I've been saying and feeling throughout all this.

(I don't mean this in an "I told you so" way, mind you—I have no interest in "scoring points" regarding a pandemic that has claimed so many lives around the world—but just that it's encouraging to see evidence that Japan is not, as some of the more doomsaying voices would argue, on an inevitable course for catastrophic death counts and tragedy.)

Considering that Japan was among the first to get COVID19, it's clear that Japan is somehow following a different path than other countries despite the incoherent government response.

Not sure if this is going to be an unpopular opinion, but honestly, in my opinion the most incoherent and incompetent part of the government response is the way they've handled financial support (waffling between a number of plans, all offering too little too late), the ridiculous Abe-no-mask situation, and so on and so forth. While Japan may have been somewhat late to declare a state of emergency, they were never going to institute an American/European style legally-mandated lockdown (I'm not an expert on Japanese constitutional law, but I don't believe they technically have the power to do so), and I would argue (perhaps controversially, though the results seem to bear it out) that the statistics never really warranted that step.

In any event, it seems fairly clear at this point that the SoE and the general push for social distancing, etc., have been fairly effective in flattening the curve, and while I'm not going to argue that Japan is completely out of the woods, it seems like there's more cause for hope than pessimism at this point. I'm just hoping that the trends will continue, and that we will see a gradual return to normalcy before too many businesses and workers in the restaurant/service/hospitality/tourism/etc. industry suffer irreparable losses.

 

[bentenmusume]

@musicisgood

You're free to believe what you believe, and there's certainly nothing wrong with being careful and circumspect, but some of your posts (e.g. predicting catastrophic death counts because of cherry blossom season, despite the state of emergency already having been in effect for weeks and no people traveling, doing hanami, etc.) strike me as excessively paranoid and fearmongering.

If there were tens of thousands of people dying of COVID, these would be showing up in the statistics somewhere. Read mdchachi's post and the articles above. The Japanese government is not hiding bodies anywhere.

I would like to say that Japan tourist industry is dead.

Is that different from the tourist industry anywhere? How many people are visiting New York or Los Angeles or Rome these days? I agree that the financial support has been totally botched (I don't know anyone who's received their 100,000 yen yet, although many people I know have received the application documents), but you seem to be arguing that Japan is somehow unique in the world in completely and utterly bungling the response to catastrophic levels and is going to collapse into a "third-world country" of death and ruin as a result—surely you have to see by now that there's no evidence that we're headed in that direction?

edited to add:
I'm worried that my original post came off as too harsh, so I just want to add that I can sympathize with you feeling on edge because of all the nightmarish news coming in from around the world. That said, if every ambulance siren or old person walking around a rural village without a mask sends your heart racing and makes you feel like the end of days is coming, you might want to step away from the COVID news from time to time, and just relax with a good book or some music. It sounds like you're being sufficiently cautious and careful about the virus, so devoting any emotional energy beyond that to panicking or stressing out is probably going to be more harmful than helpful.

 

[musicisgood]

@musicisgood

You're free to believe what you believe, and there's certainly nothing wrong with being careful and circumspect, but some of your posts (e.g. predicting catastrophic death counts because of cherry blossom season, despite the state of emergency already having been in effect for weeks and no people traveling, doing hanami, etc.) strike me as excessively paranoid and fearmongering.

If there were tens of thousands of people dying of COVID, these would be showing up in the statistics somewhere. Read mdchachi's post and the articles above. The Japanese government is not hiding bodies anywhere.


Is that different from the tourist industry anywhere? How many people are visiting New York or Los Angeles or Rome these days? I agree that the financial support has been totally botched (I don't know anyone who's received their 100,000 yen yet, although many people I know have received the application documents), but you seem to be arguing that Japan is somehow unique in the world in completely and utterly bungling the response to catastrophic levels and is going to collapse into a "third-world country" of death and ruin as a result—surely you have to see by now that there's no evidence that we're headed in that direction?

Well, it is true. what I have believe due to current situations around the world didn't pan out here in Japan. But one thing I'll stick with is this: Some people are not affected by the current situation. For many, its a daily survival to buy or even in some cases steal food.
I've heard it is still looked down upon about applying for welfare these days. I do know this , if we didn't have other income coming in, we would not have any incoming in and that would be severe. I think millions of young Japanese are in that current position.
I understand Abe will give 100000 yen a month to college student to help pay for rent and food ?

 

[bentenmusume]

One thing I can definitely agree with you about is that the Japanese government has done a terrible job supporting the people and industries who have been hit hardest by the shutdowns. Especially in Tokyo and major metropolitan areas where rent in high, a one-time payout of 100,000 is all but meaningless.

And yes, there has been talk of an extra payout for college students, as well as talk in Tokyo of the prefectural government hiring college students who've lost their part-time jobs to do clerical/office work related to the pandemic. I don't believe anything concrete has actually begun yet, though.

As for it being "looked down" to apply for welfare, I mean, I don't think this is anything unique to Japan...do you? There can be a stigma to it, but people who need it to get by will do it, because obviously it's better than the alternative.

 

[johnnyG]

...and I plan to take a 11 hour local train ride in June. ...

It's hard for me to "get" that on the one hand you post rather alarming things about the pandemic, and on the other you think that it's okay to mix it up with the public on an 11-hour train trip. And to kyushu ? Where there are more people than in yamaguchi? And maybe another trip back on the return?

What's your plan if, you know, you happen to test positive and maybe get sick along the way? Quarantine for a couple weeks wherever that happens to be? You'd be okay if you happened to get hospitalized away from home? Or would you make a dash for home (shedding virus onto others along the way)?

**
That's not meant to be harsh. Those questions should be on the list of anyone who is thinking of traveling.

 

[misternada]

So were you and your friend wearing masks?

That's a key point, which you left out.

We were not wearing a mask, but the guy who put his hand to his mouth and start to run did not either, maybe people did not wear masks that day, was he doing that each time he saw someone without a mask or just foreigners ? Anyway I guess he will be wearing when going out from now on !

Just to provide a counter-argument, I have been going about my business as usual, trying to be circumspect, and I can assure you that no Japanese person has treated me like I am somehow a walking infection risk (which is more than can be said about how some nurses and medical staff workers have been treated by some people, sadly).

I am not saying everybody react like that especially not people you know or people with whom you are doing business with, who are more likely to shine your shoes,
I am just saying this kind of thing can and do happen in Japan.

Every time he posts this stuff, the only reason for these reactions that makes any sense in my mind is that perhaps his appearance is atypical. I imagine he looks something like this:

You wish ! If you know people who looks like that let me know I can rent them rooms with a very good discount so they can ruin the neighborhood !

 

[musicisgood]

It's hard for me to "get" that on the one hand you post rather alarming things about the pandemic, and on the other you think that it's okay to mix it up with the public on an 11-hour train trip. And to kyushu? Where there are more people than in yamaguchi? And maybe another trip back on the return?

What's your plan if, you know, you happen to test positive and maybe get sick along the way? Quarantine for a couple weeks wherever that happens to be? You'd be okay if you happened to get hospitalized away from home? Or would you make a dash for home (shedding virus onto others along the way)?

**
That's not meant to be harsh. Those questions should be on the list of anyone who is thinking of traveling.

I've been thinking of all the above. And yes, it could be an alarming trip for me. The thing at the moment is that it is in the planning stage if I choose to go. It's a bit puzzling even for me to make a trip, but it may be come necessary for me to make in June.

 

[johnnyG]

I've been thinking of all the above. And yes, it could be an alarming trip for me. The thing at the moment is that it is in the planning stage if I choose to go. It's a bit puzzling even for me to make a trip, but it may be come necessary for me to make in June.

At any normal time I'd be cheering you on, even asking if I could come along. Also, if you had seemed to be a person who had thought of the virus as just another flu, and/or that it actually had a kill/fatality rate lower than everyone thinks, that you had portrayed everyone's caution as overdoing it, and various things like that...

...then hearing that you might be traveling would not have been surprising.

I dunno. Maybe it will have faded back some by then--maybe the people who think hot weather will attenuate it will be right? Kyushu will certainly be hot come June!

Given what I know about your past cycling, I guess you'll be camping mostly. But you'll still have to eat, and living out of conbini and supermarkets would get old. One reason to visit kyushu would be the food, and I'd want to avoid living off the same stuff as in a local conbini right here.

Sorry, I'm rambling, but that's the idea. Baths, too--are the public onsen open? Izakaya?

 

[thomas]

Today, the state of emergency has been lifted in 39 prefectures, so @musicisgood might be good to embark on his journey.

Japan to lift coronavirus state of emergency in 39 prefectures

The nation’s capital and seven prefectures will maintain emergency measures for now.

www.japantimes.co.jp

The SoE will remain effective in Hokkaido , Tokyo, Chiba, Saitama, Kanagawa, Osaka, Hyogo and Kyoto , but, strangely enough, not in Aichi which also saw large numbers of infections. People in the 39 prefectures are asked to stay vigilant and keep up the "new lifestyle" of wearing masks and teleworking.

 

[musicisgood]

At any normal time I'd be cheering you on, even asking if I could come along. Also, if you had seemed to be a person who had thought of the virus as just another flu, and/or that it actually had a kill/fatality rate lower than everyone thinks, that you had portrayed everyone's caution as overdoing it, and various things like that...

...then hearing that you might be traveling would not have been surprising.

I dunno. Maybe it will have faded back some by then--maybe the people who think hot weather will attenuate it will be right? Kyushu will certainly be hot come June!

Given what I know about your past cycling, I guess you'll be camping mostly. But you'll still have to eat, and living out of conbini and supermarkets would get old. One reason to visit kyushu would be the food, and I'd want to avoid living off the same stuff as in a local conbini right here.

Sorry, I'm rambling, but that's the idea. Baths, too--are the public onsen open? Izakaya?

Johnny, of course I've taken this virus probably more serious then anyone on this forum. I've very active on the updates about this virus, not so much on the medical side but from many angles how people are reacting and living with it. Me too. Also the wife's business had to close because of the State of Emergency and I'm not sure at the moment she'll want to re-open. I don't want to give you the impression this is fun trip. No, it is not by all means. I may find it only to be an essential trip that I must take. Is it worth the chance , in all honesty, I haven't even rode the local trains for maybe the last 3 months. I don't want to make this trip, but if I have to, I will. It will just be a 3 day/2 night trip, one day of actually trying to do what I have to do and 2 days just on the train going back and forth.
I always dreamed of touring Kyushu Island but, no, I would never take the 30 days I wanted to live out my dream now, no way. Going to Miyazaki in June is for a whole different reason. I'm actually hoping its not necessary, but one day I do want to get there and "see" the place for pleasure and camping and just relaxing.
Thanks.