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COVID-19 Coronavirus: general discussion

Mark of Zorro

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So do you still stand by your original post on this thread that people are getting hysterical about 'just a cold virus'?
That's not a fair characterization. I said it causes pneumonia so its not "just a cold virus". But I do stand by my condemnation of the hysteria, yes. Its unwarranted and in my view, still very much a likely factor or even main cause of the deaths.

It remains almost only those already close to death, whether by age or illness, that are dying. Was everyone planning on them living forever? People may see them as dying prematurely. I see them as dying late, just not as late as previously projected.
 

Lothor

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Your words were "Its a cold virus. Yes, it may be a worse than usual cold virus (always mutating) but the press is treating like the next plague" and pneumonia wasn't mentioned once in your post.

Edit: And if a young person with underlying health problems gets the illness and dies, is it tough luck for them too because their time was up?
 

Mark of Zorro

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Your words were "Its a cold virus.
And your words were "just a cold virus.". That I didn't say. At the time I assumed cold viruses also caused pneumonia. Is pneumonia plague level now? Is that really a complete game changer?

Also, I did mention it in my very next post.



Edit: And if a young person with underlying health problems gets the illness and dies, is it tough luck for them too because their time was up?
More young people died from influenza this season even before Corona was in the news. Was it tough luck for them because their time was up?
 

mdchachi

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For one, I asked the same question several times with various "it"s and you did not clarify what "it" you were talking about.

For two, such a fine point is not going to be clearly explained by a general definition in any case.

For three, you did not provide the definition of capitalism which would be equally general.

For four, some of the examples did include governmental ownership and administration.

For five, you did not choose which it was, though by default one might assume you chose capitalism.
All of the examples you mentioned did not fit the definition of socialism. So "it" meant "all of the above."
If you are saying they don't fit the definition of capitalism either then the questions themselves are faulty and the answer is clearly "neither."

I keep thinking about the news from Italy...so many dead in such a short time. But I cannot choose between 1) the disease is far more deadly than I thought or 2) there is some particular issue in Italy and its not really Covid-19 that is directly the problem.
Considering that you're not an epidemiologist I'd say it's (1).
Italy's problem is that they didn't take it seriously until it was too late. Iran too. So I believe that's why you see the U.S. waking up and taking such serious measures.
See 1918 as a reference. St. Louis took action to lock down public interaction and Philadelphia had a parade.
What is curious, however, is why Japan seems to be holding steady without doing as much to keep people isolated.
Is it the calm before the storm?

That's not a fair characterization. I said it causes pneumonia so its not "just a cold virus". But I do stand by my condemnation of the hysteria, yes. Its unwarranted and in my view, still very much a likely factor or even main cause of the deaths.

It remains almost only those already close to death, whether by age or illness, that are dying. Was everyone planning on them living forever? People may see them as dying prematurely. I see them as dying late, just not as late as previously projected.
That doesn't even make sense. Where has the so-called "hysteria" led to any deaths?
More young people died from influenza this season even before Corona was in the news. Was it tough luck for them because their time was up?
Why conflate influenza with this? They were already doing as much as they could to fight the flu. So it's beside the point.
If many lives can be saved by shutting things down for a bit then it's the obvious choice.
Didn't I post this already? If not, this video sums up why real epidemiologists are taking this seriously and the smart leaders are listening.
 

Mark of Zorro

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They were already doing as much as they could to fight the flu.
That is nonsense of such a high degree I am not going to reply to you beyond this post on this for a while.

If many lives can be saved by shutting things down for a bit then it's the obvious choice.
You can't just shut the world down to save lives. Its going to kill young people who really WILL die prematurely as well as affect their mental and physical health and education. People die when they get old and for various reasons. If old people are at risk THEY need to shut THEMSELVES UP and IN, not expect the world to stop for them with all the negative impact that's going to have.

This is well out of hand already. If it goes on much more the food is going to stop and the shooting is going to start.
 
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What is curious, however, is why Japan seems to be holding steady without doing as much to keep people isolated.
Is it the calm before the storm?
This is purely speculation, but I think it has to do with Japan already being a nation of bowing rather than handshaking (well, only partially anymore, but to any extent helps), with an intent focus on hygiene, and a place where people regularly wear masks. The subway crowding is a drawback and a risk-factor though.

In contrast, you'd probably be stopped, questioned, and possibly arrested if you tried to wear a mask on public transit in any major U.S. city before Covid-19. There are rules against concealing your face in a *lot* of public places after 9/11, plus we love our handshaking and backslapping here, and ... well.... let's face it, a lot of Americans don't really wash their hands at all, except after they poop.

I'm not too sure about Europe except that like many Americans I have noticed that Europeans don't leave a lot of personal space, which of course is a problem in the current situation.
 

mdchachi

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That is nonsense of such a high degree I am not going to reply to you beyond this post on this for a while.
お願い

You can't just shut the world down to save lives. Its going to kill young people who really WILL die prematurely as well as affect their mental and physical health and education. People die when they get old and for various reasons. If old people are at risk THEY need to shut THEMSELVES UP and IN, not expect the world to stop from them with all the negative impact that's going to have.

This is well out of hand already. If it goes on much more the food is going to stop and the shooting is going to start.
Did you watch the video? Too long for you? It's not just the elderly. Just like influenza is not just elderly either.
You still haven't explained how all this so-called hysteria is killing people. And now you're saying young people will die prematurely.

Anyway I hope you stick to your word and not respond further.
 

okinawaholic

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And why is it that people keep bringing their non-Japan-related hobbyhorses to this site about Japan?
Because my vote in Japan affects my way of life in Japan too, whether it be for my State Congressperson, Senate or President (think overseas taxation).
As of March 10, America had tested 26 people per million but Japan had tested 76 million people.
Last I counted, America had 330 million citizens and Japan had about 130 million. These seem like pretty close ratios if you ask me (and I'm not going to do the math or delve much deeper into that, as the statistics were thrown out to be deceptive).
If America had the same number of cases per capita, and it probably will have soon (its figures are rising more much more quickly than Japan's) it would be even more overwhelmed
How do you figure with private healthcare? Plenty of people have privatized insurance and can even get at-home caretakers. Is that even an option under socialized medicine?
displays a lack of understanding of the word, which seems to be used as a catch-all bogeyman by the right of America
I purposefully used "democratic socialism" to describe "socialism" because that is exactly what the platform calls itself, but represents itself as true socialism.
hardly have anything to do with every day socialized health care
Explain Italy to me then. I'll bet, without looking it up, there are far more elderly people in America that have retirement and have private care still, due to their time in civil service or even the military, or, they put in time at their respective companies and earned a cheap plan to stay apart of.
nor is there anything that guarantees the U.S. system (which I note you have failed to assign a label) will not take a similar measure.
There is only 1 way that the US can take a similar measure, and it's under Marshall Law. Capitalism will prevail and doctors, nurses, etc. will treat those that can ante it up, which is plenty more because they're not taxed to death, to only die of COVID-19 because they paid all their money in taxes that they can't afford care elsewhere.
but is that the decision of a democracy
Yes, "democracy" means the majority rules. So, yes. You seem to be confusing "democracy" with "republic". USA is not a "democracy" in most cases.
 

Mark of Zorro

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There is only 1 way that the US can take a similar measure, and it's under Marshall Law.
I don't care what you call it. It can be done over the will of the people and that is what matters. Damn the label. I have already noted the U.S. government has banned travel from Europe.

And I further note that you refuse to assign that ban a label. I am forced to assume if anyone else did it, you would very quickly give it a label.

You seem to be confusing "democracy" with "republic". USA is not a "democracy" in most cases.
I asked a question and it was concerning your confusion of terms, and so, I used terms I thought you might think you understand.

But its already clear this is going to go nowhere when the old democracy vs. republic spiel gets trotted out. Its clear who you listen to and who you don't, and who you don't is academics and who you do is American conservative radio.

But to hell with it. Its done. Neither of us will budge on this and never mind why.
 

okinawaholic

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And I further note that you refuse to assign that ban a label. I am forced to assume if anyone else did it, you would very quickly give it a label.
Other Presidents have inacted their own travel bans for other reasons too. Never cared as I believe all are in our personal interest.
But its already clear this is going to go nowhere when the old democracy vs. republic spiel gets trotted out. Its clear who you listen to and who you don't, and who you don't is academics and who you do is American conservative radio.
So you're saying scholars are only progressives and a conservative can't have intelligence, but can only be conservative radio hosts at their best? Way to pretty much attack 1/2 the nation.

Edit: Go ahead and take away my MBA as I am a conservative and an MBA is good enough to teach undergrad or low-level grad classes as an adjunct professor (even online schools). You don't want my type indoctrinating youth in universities in Japan. You want progressives to teach because only they can learn. :eyes rolling back in a 360-degree turn:
 

Mark of Zorro

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So you're saying scholars are only progressives and a conservative can't have intelligence, but can only be conservative radio hosts at their best?
That's not what I said. Its what you said. And it goes a long to showing how your brain works and that's not meant as a compliment.

Of course conservatives can have intelligence but I do note that rank and file conservatives (as opposed to leading conservatives), do seem to have major difficulty with abstract concepts. They are great for real world tasks though.

In short, if I want my water pipes fixed and all I knew about the plumber was that one was a conservative and one was a progressive, I would probably choose the conservative. But if I needed a paper written that explained how plumbing worked from city water treatment to the home, I would hire the progressive.
 
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Mark of Zorro

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Here is an interesting discussion of health and death during the Great Depression. It is the final reply in this short thread that resonates with me the most: poverty leading to malnutrition leading to inability to fight pneumonia.

This is why I oppose these "shut downs" taking place over corona virus. The risk of another Great Depression is real. Of course, humanity might need this kick in the butt, just what a weird way to start it. In a way I guess it proves how the kick in the butt is deserved. How ironic.

 

thomas

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Niigata has opened Japan's first drive-thru coronavirus test facility despite opposition from the Ministry of Health:



Meanwhile, a government panel of medical experts warned of a potential “explosive” increase in domestic infections of COVID-19:

 

okinawaholic

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So, Okinawa is preparing for another wave of COVID infections, as well as Japan due to their idiocy of not quarantining correctly and letting all passengers from the Spain flight disperse all over.

Even though we have "3" infected, Narita (or Haneda if she transferred flights) let a woman (teenager) flying from Spain to get tested and move on to Okinawa before the results were in.


So, we have "4" (much like Japan has much more than WHO reports vs news since news includes Diamond Princess in their counts from time to time)... and I foresee a lot more within the next 2 weeks, much like after the Princess Diamond disembarked here and it sprung up. No flight numbers released, etc., but hopefully, they're working laboriously to track and quarantine everyone she was in contact with... including international passengers en route from Japan to other countries from the initial Spain flight too.

On another note, my conference in Hawaii was canceled. I booked tickets and a hotel room on February 1, non-refundable, before this nonsense (who would've known something out of my control could've caused anything like this). I am hoping that Trump locks Japan down now so that I can somehow fight to get my $1300 back. The little guys here are getting their asses kicked because of this.

A $1000 stimulus check? That ain't covering my losses so far and is going right back into the banks instead of where it should belong, the economy (that is if we get them).
 

Mark of Zorro

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(who would've known something out of my control could've caused anything like this).
Just wait until an actual war breaks out.

as well as Japan due to their idiocy of not quarantining correctly
I am repeating myself but keep dreaming. The only thing that is going stop, or truly slow it down, is going to be spring. Basically there is no such thing as a proper quarantine for this and the experience of other countries is showing that well.

Some will say PRC did a good job but even supposing the zero new infections they claim are true, we may never know what actually happened there. There could be mass graves of people who would have recovered, or even people who were never infected.

Once again 80 percent of infected people will suffer only mild symptoms or even none. The overwhelming majority of deaths are the elderly and those with previous conditions. Calm down. The only people that need to isolate themselves are the elderly and those already weak and ill. What is idiocy is locking down the world.
 

okinawaholic

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Just wait until an actual war breaks out.
Highly unlikely.
Once again 80 percent of infected people will suffer only mild symptoms or even none. The overwhelming majority of deaths are the elderly and those with previous conditions. Calm down. The only people that need to isolate themselves are the elderly and those already weak and ill. What is idiocy is locking down the world.
Proportionally, Japan has the oldest population in comparison to USA, centennial wise (Japan 70k with 130m residents and USA 77k with 330m).

I can count 5 old folk homes in my small neighborhood alone with 20+ residents (they're basically apartments with nurses/caretakers at 2-5x the rate for rent). While the public allowed in at the moment, the workers could easily carry something in. If something that happened in my home state of Washington (Kirkland with 30 deaths from staff bringing it in) were to happen in one or more homes around the island here, we'd have mass graves (tombs filling up).

So while I'm not worried about myself, I am worried that other people are going to lose ones close to them, by either the 100s or the 1000s in Okinawa alone I am going to bet, and, aren't even allowed to say goodbyes except over the phone at the moment. That's because Okinawa just does not have the capacity, especially under social care, to deal with the situation. A lot of hospitals, unlike in the US, don't have oxygen hookups in each room, which if they had enough ventilators (which I'm sure they don't), poses another logistical problem of getting and replacing oxygen tanks quick enough to where they need to go.

We just have to see now...
 

mdchachi

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On another note, my conference in Hawaii was canceled. I booked tickets and a hotel room on February 1, non-refundable, before this nonsense (who would've known something out of my control could've caused anything like this). I am hoping that Trump locks Japan down now so that I can somehow fight to get my $1300 back. The little guys here are getting their asses kicked because of this.
What airline? Usually with nonrefundable tickets you get a credit that you can use in the future I thought.

A $1000 stimulus check? That ain't covering my losses so far and is going right back into the banks instead of where it should belong, the economy (that is if we get them).
What stimulus check? I thought you are an expat in Okinawa. Would you still qualify?
 

Mark of Zorro

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I can count 5 old folk homes in my small neighborhood alone with 20+ residents (they're basically apartments with nurses/caretakers at 2-5x the rate for rent). While the public allowed in at the moment, the workers could easily carry something in.
Which is why those workers are limiting their social contact.

You do understand the importance of a functioning economy to public health, do you not?

I mean some people claim health improved during the Great Depression due to people not over-eating. However, even if true, what was the average life span during the Great Depression do you think? And how many were dependent on medicine to stay alive? If Americans could grow insulin in the backyard, believe me, they would have long ago with the price multiplying in mere years, essentially because of greed alone.

You think those greedy pharma companies are going to find a heart and give away free meds if the economy is destroyed? Even lower the price? They might for a short time as a means to keep their customers alive but if the economy did not heal fast, they would cut their losses and let them die.

And I am just getting warmed up. Modern countries are not nations of farmers anymore. We will have FAR more problems than Depression era people. Jacking with the economy could very well have more serious consequences than corona. And still FAR more have died from influenza but no panic.
 

SmudgyBuddy

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The schools are reopening at the end of the month because mothers don't want to mother (parents complained). Mothers would rather dump them in institutions, and make money. God forbid the man actually go out and support the family, while the mother mothers her children.
 

Mark of Zorro

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The schools are reopening at the end of the month because mothers don't want to mother (parents complained). Mothers would rather dump them in institutions, and make money. God forbid the man actually go out and support the family, while the mother mothers her children.
That's not fair. Kids don't have F all to do here. Its not like when I was a kid I could go outside and literally shoot arrows across the yard. They don't have such outdoorsy items and they don't have such yards.

Plus most Mom's I know literally have jobs to go to. And again, its not like when I was a kid and I would get dumped at a baby-sitter's.

If I was going to criticize, it would be society for not fixing the two points above. But that would entail all the other Japanese people to stop being so critical of mothers. Mother's already sacrifice too much for their kids. Don't expect to get any more blood out of that stone. Kids need more open spaces to play in, by themselves, and they also need baby-sitters. Baby-sitters are better than institutions but any port in a storm.

God forbid the man actually go out and support the family, while the mother mothers her children.
Also not fair. A lot of families cannot get by without both parents working paying jobs. Plus, a lot of dads have to live away from the family in this country, working some job a few prefectures away. That can make even harder on the mom. I pretty much can only remember one Japanese father who didn't have a job for a while, and his wife is American.
 

thomas

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The WP reported on the “Wakayama model”:

It's being called in Japan the "Wakayama model" — how one district broke with the government, adopted its own strict coronavirus testing policies and managed to win a local battle against the global pandemic. It's a lesson in how nimble thinking and concerted action — grounded in fast, well-targeted testing and tracing — can beat back the novel virus and break its chain of transmission. As the coronavirus strains governments and medical networks around the world, the stand in Wakayama underscores some of the core elements in the fight: aggressive testing and contact tracing.
-Source
 

Mark of Zorro

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The WP reported on the “Wakayama model”:



-Source

Washington Post. I cannot read it because they want to put cookies on my machine and I will not let them.

I did however read this Japan’s Wakayama region’s coroanvirus fight called a ‘model’ in local action

...and it was bloody painful to read. There is not a single fact in there to justify the term "Wakayama model". And I was already feeling like there would not be given the long, dramatic introduction which was short on justification for the invented term. What part of testing people who was exposed to an infected person and doing it quickly makes Wakayama unique?

The article also describes working outside of guidelines as "breaking the rules".

Look, the actions, speed and decisions of the governor, Yoshinobu Nisaka and the health department director, Takako Nojiri, are commendable. But lets not wax poetic about common sense that other people are also exercising internationally. You need more test kits and you need more labs? Yeah, you make phone calls and make requests. That's their job. They did it well, but lets not go over-board.
 

mdchachi

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The WP reported on the “Wakayama model”:
That's the model response. Aggressive tracking and testing and containment. Unfortunately most places are dropping the ball leading to much more aggressive measures after it's too late to contain. Here's a recent article to help people who still aren't taking it seriously. Even I'm probably not taking it seriously enough. Saturday I went to three grocery stores.

“Reading about it in the news, I knew it was going to be bad, but we deal with the flu every year so I was thinking: Well, it’s probably not that much worse than the flu. But seeing patients with COVID-19 completely changed my perspective, and it’s a lot more frightening.”

This is knocking out what should be perfectly fit, healthy people.

“I have patients in their early 40s and, yeah, I was kind of shocked. I’m seeing people who look relatively healthy with a minimal health history, and they are completely wiped out, like they’ve been hit by a truck. This is knocking out what should be perfectly fit, healthy people. Patients will be on minimal support, on a little bit of oxygen, and then all of a sudden, they go into complete respiratory arrest, shut down and can’t breathe at all.”

They suddenly become unresponsive or go into respiratory failure.

“We have an observation unit in the hospital, and we have been admitting patients that had tested positive or are presumptive positive — these are patients that had been in contact with people who were positive. We go and check vitals on patients every four hours, and some are on a continuous cardiac monitor, so we see that their heart rate has a sudden increase or decrease, or someone goes in and sees that the patient is struggling to breathe or is unresponsive. That seems to be what happens to a lot of these patients: They suddenly become unresponsive or go into respiratory failure.”

The lung is filled with so much fluid, displacing where the air would normally be.

“It’s called acute respiratory distress syndrome, ARDS. That means the lungs are filled with fluid. And it’s notable for the way the X-ray looks: The entire lung is basically whited out from fluid. Patients with ARDS are extremely difficult to oxygenate. It has a really high mortality rate, about 40%. The way to manage it is to put a patient on a ventilator. The additional pressure helps the oxygen go into the bloodstream.

“Normally, ARDS is something that happens over time as the lungs get more and more inflamed. But with this virus, it seems like it happens overnight. When you’re healthy, your lung is made up of little balloons. Like a tree is made out of a bunch of little leaves, the lung is made of little air sacs that are called the alveoli. When you breathe in, all of those little air sacs inflate, and they have capillaries in the walls, little blood vessels. The oxygen gets from the air in the lung into the blood so it can be carried around the body.

“Typically with ARDS, the lungs become inflamed. It’s like inflammation anywhere: If you have a burn on your arm, the skin around it turns red from additional blood flow. The body is sending it additional nutrients to heal. The problem is, when that happens in your lungs, fluid and extra blood starts going to the lungs. Viruses can injure cells in the walls of the alveoli, so the fluid leaks into the alveoli. A telltale sign of ARDS in an X-ray is what’s called ‘ground glass opacity,’ like an old-fashioned ground glass privacy window in a shower. And lungs look that way because fluid is white on an X-ray, so the lung looks like white ground glass, or sometimes pure white, because the lung is filled with so much fluid, displacing where the air would normally be.”

This severity ... is usually more typical of someone who has a near drowning experience ... or people who inhale caustic gas.

“With our coronavirus patients, once they’re on ventilators, most need about the highest settings that we can do. About 90% oxygen, and 16 of PEEP, positive end-expiratory pressure, which keeps the lung inflated. This is nearly as high as I’ve ever seen. The level we’re at means we are running out of options.

“In my experience, this severity of ARDS is usually more typical of someone who has a near drowning experience — they have a bunch of dirty water in their lungs — or people who inhale caustic gas. Especially for it to have such an acute onset like that. I’ve never seen a microorganism or an infectious process cause such acute damage to the lungs so rapidly. That was what really shocked me.”
Also something from my FB feed:
Here's a day by day testimony from a healthy 31y.o. RN with NO underlying conditions. This is his covid experience —-
COVID19 is not like the flu...at all... How do I know? Because I’ve lived through it to tell the tale!
Memoirs of a 31 y.o. male with no underlying health conditions.
March 3, 2020-Bronchitis like illness started, dry cough, no fever
March 5, 2020-Low grade fever starts, still thinking bronchitis
March 6, 2020-Fever climbs from 99.8 to 102.6 in one hour, thought it was flu and was now outside the Tamiflu window, stayed home for symptom management.
March 9, 2020-Fever of >102 continues, this isn’t flu, go to urgent care, diagnosed with pneumonia, started on Levaquin.
March 11, 2020-3 doses of Levaquin in, no improvement in symptoms, go to ER. Admitted, swabbed for COVID19, IV antibiotics got pneumonia on chest CT.
March 12, 2020-Get to a room and placed on supplemental oxygen via nasal cannula, 1 liter per minute (lpm). I’m only able to achieve 500 on my incentive spirometer, for perspective-my healthy lungs could hit 4000.
March 13, 2020-O2 saturation begins to decline, oxygen increased to 2 lpm, then 3 lpm, then 5 lpm. Oxygen saturation 88% on 5 lpm. The decision is made to use high flow (vapotherm) and move to ICU. Placed on 40 lpm and 60% oxygen. I’m terrified at this point because vapotherm is all that is standing between me and the ventilator. This is the moment I would have died at home had I not come to the hospital when I did. I would have respiratory arrested in my bed.
March 14, 2020-I have a bad coughing spell, my oxygen saturation drops to the 80’s. I’m still on 40 lpm and 60%. I’m trying to gasp for air, but because of the condition of my lungs, can only take small breaths without coughing more. I feel as though I’m about to die, my heart is racing, oxygen still low, and I’m sweating profusely. Im in respiratory distress! I pressed my call light trying to get the attention of anyone who can help. My nurse was in another room tending to another sick patient. Fortunately he sees me and comes to my room. I am now on 40 lpm and 100% oxygen, next step is the ventilator. I’m terrified. My breathing slows as my oxygen saturation slowly returns to the 90’s. I’m weaned back down to 60%. The same thing happens again in the night, and again I thought I was about to leave this world. Again I’m on 100%, this time for several hours. I’m slowly weaned again to 60%.
March 15, 2020-My morning arterial blood gas (which hurts like a 🤬) is normal. I get weaned to 50%.
March 16, 2020-My oxygen saturation is 97%, I’m weaned further to 30 lpm and 40%.
March 17, 2020-I’ve been in ICU 4 days, forced to use a bedpan because my oxygen saturation drops if I turn or even move too much. I am unable to clean myself; I’m feeling completely helpless and so embarrassed, but my nurses were great and very understanding. I now truly understand my patients’ feelings from all these years of nursing. I’m weaned to 25 lpm and 30%. I’m going to the medical floor.
March 18, 2020-I’m weaned to 28%. I can achieve 1500 on my incentive spirometer finally. I’m hopeful to be weaned to a regular nasal cannula. The provider comes in. I’ve been waiting for my swab results. I tested positive for COVID19...6.5 days of waiting for the outside lab to process the lab. I’m relieved because I finally have a diagnosis, a reason I’ve been so sick. I’m weaned to 4 lpm on a regular nasal cannula, 4 hours later I’m weaned to 2 lpm. 4 hours later I’m weaned to room air. My oxygen saturation stats 93% and above all night.
March 19, 2020-As I write this, I’m waiting to attempt a 6 minute walk test to see if my oxygen stays up, so I can go home. I’ve had no visitors this entire time due to my isolation precautions.
Guys, this is why social isolation is a thing. As a 31 y.o., I wasn’t supposed to get sick. I wasn’t supposed to be admitted to the hospital or the ICU for that matter. We’ve already had several deaths from COVID19 in this area. I thank God I wasn’t one of them! However, many won’t be as fortunate as I have been. Many will die, especially those with any lung or heart problems. So please, I beg you to #stayhome
 
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