Anyone feel overloaded when learning?
- Thread starter w1ngzer0
- Start date
- 4 Sep 2007
- 113
- 3
Depends. Normally I don't feel overwhelmed, but with school starting, I've been a little more time pressed. I fixed that one by popping out my book every chance I got (like bus rides), so by the time I got home I'd finished most of my daily routine.
I've also felt pressure recently as I just cracked my new grammar book open today; suddenly the dialogues are four times as long as my previous book.
And in full kanji. Oh well, at least there's furigana.
I can certainly connect with that feeling of wanting to know the language immediately, that kind of impatience. I forget exactly how I dealt with it, perhaps others can help in that regard. All I can say is relax; learning any language has never been easy, and it certainly takes longer than most other things, such as mastering your favorite game, which may be where that impatience comes from.
Out of curiosity, what books do you study and how quickly?
And while I'm typing out a long response to a relatively new learner, let me list a few tips (I really should practice what I preach here).
1. The best time to study vocab is in the morning, shortly after you wake up. The second best time is before you go to bed. Vocab might be the last thing on your mind at those times, but trust me, you learn a lot faster and it saves you time in the long run.
2. Carry a list or two of vocab words (around 20 to a list). No room for lists? Bring flash cards (few words to a card) in your wallet. Pop them out any time you're waiting for anything (even if it's waiting for the candy to come out of the vending machine).
3. This doesn't apply to you at this stage, but once you start learning kanji, you will want to read stuff such as the Japanese posts on this board. So you pop open a Japanese topic, and suddenly you're flooded with kana and kanji. Your mind thinks, "Aw, screw dat." Do it anyway. Once you've begun reading, it will already seem to be a lot less daunting, and it should be pretty fun. Just make sure you've got time on your hands.
4. Have fun with it. If some aspect of Japanese catches your eye while surfing the net, and it fascinates you, go ahead and look up more on it. Even more important is practical application. Watch an anime or something from time to time. Slice-of-life animes give more opportunity for practice, but really, anything should be good. Anything that avoids the "grammar burnout" that discourages people when encountered in large, uninterrupted quantities.
Ever wonder why language classes in school were generally boring? They focus so much on learning the grammar first, that everything else that makes learning a language interesting just gets pushed to the side.
Hope this record-breakingly lengthy post helps you!
I've also felt pressure recently as I just cracked my new grammar book open today; suddenly the dialogues are four times as long as my previous book.
And in full kanji. Oh well, at least there's furigana.I can certainly connect with that feeling of wanting to know the language immediately, that kind of impatience. I forget exactly how I dealt with it, perhaps others can help in that regard. All I can say is relax; learning any language has never been easy, and it certainly takes longer than most other things, such as mastering your favorite game, which may be where that impatience comes from.
Out of curiosity, what books do you study and how quickly?
And while I'm typing out a long response to a relatively new learner, let me list a few tips (I really should practice what I preach here).
1. The best time to study vocab is in the morning, shortly after you wake up. The second best time is before you go to bed. Vocab might be the last thing on your mind at those times, but trust me, you learn a lot faster and it saves you time in the long run.
2. Carry a list or two of vocab words (around 20 to a list). No room for lists? Bring flash cards (few words to a card) in your wallet. Pop them out any time you're waiting for anything (even if it's waiting for the candy to come out of the vending machine).
3. This doesn't apply to you at this stage, but once you start learning kanji, you will want to read stuff such as the Japanese posts on this board. So you pop open a Japanese topic, and suddenly you're flooded with kana and kanji. Your mind thinks, "Aw, screw dat." Do it anyway. Once you've begun reading, it will already seem to be a lot less daunting, and it should be pretty fun. Just make sure you've got time on your hands.
4. Have fun with it. If some aspect of Japanese catches your eye while surfing the net, and it fascinates you, go ahead and look up more on it. Even more important is practical application. Watch an anime or something from time to time. Slice-of-life animes give more opportunity for practice, but really, anything should be good. Anything that avoids the "grammar burnout" that discourages people when encountered in large, uninterrupted quantities.
Ever wonder why language classes in school were generally boring? They focus so much on learning the grammar first, that everything else that makes learning a language interesting just gets pushed to the side.
Hope this record-breakingly lengthy post helps you!
I agree with mike,why are you trying to rush it?
I study my kanji and vocab when i wake up and when i go to sleep as well.I already got nearly 2 pages of grammer down and its only been a week for me.
But here's a secret I learned my freshman year,only study when you actually want to.If you tell yourself you're going to study x amount of hours for x amount of days a week,it's going to feel like a chore,and you might stop.I didn't practice today or yesterday because I feel like a slug,but,by taking days off it also lets your brain recoup and when you come back to your studies,if you don't remember at least 70% of it,your trying to cram too much.
I also like to watch anime,mainly the ones like naruto where the words to the opening music are at the top and each syllable he says is highlighted as he says it,you get to watch a cartoon,and learn pronunciation
I study my kanji and vocab when i wake up and when i go to sleep as well.I already got nearly 2 pages of grammer down and its only been a week for me.
But here's a secret I learned my freshman year,only study when you actually want to.If you tell yourself you're going to study x amount of hours for x amount of days a week,it's going to feel like a chore,and you might stop.I didn't practice today or yesterday because I feel like a slug,but,by taking days off it also lets your brain recoup and when you come back to your studies,if you don't remember at least 70% of it,your trying to cram too much.
I also like to watch anime,mainly the ones like naruto where the words to the opening music are at the top and each syllable he says is highlighted as he says it,you get to watch a cartoon,and learn pronunciation
w1ngzer0
後輩
- 17 Jan 2004
- 262
- 0
- Thread starter
- #6
I am getting old. No offense. But i don't want to be your age in my same position as i am now. Under the control of someone else; on how my income comes in.
Jimi's Book of Japanese: A Motivating Method to Learn Japanese ( both Hiragana & Katakana version)EvilCowSlayer said:
Japanese Sentence Patterns for Effective Communication: A Self-Study Course and Reference (Paperback)
Kana Flashcards (Cards) (By white rabbit publishing)
Japanese At a Glance (At a Glance Series) (Paperback)
I bought this because i wanted a simple phrase book with basic hellos and how do you get to the bathroom to complex like where is the resturant and this is how you get there...
All images provided by Amazon. It's amazing what can be found with an ISBN number
I didn't want to wait 2-4 weeks for a teacher. I am suppose to be getting a teacher but i haven't herd from the language school in two straight weeks. I wanted to start learning NOW and not wait on someone else.
I am more into Japanese TV and music. HG, Mecha Ike, Butstu Games, and other Japanese comedy. As well as jpop and recently very impressed; jrock. Jrock has come a long way since the mid 90's. I get bored with cartoons is why i don't watch it.jmwintenn said:
EvilCowSlayer:
You are very wise for your age and will take your advice on how to approaching studying. Morning rutine would be good. But, i currently live in a 1 bedroom condo with 2 others......................
Thank you all for your input and replying to my thread.
- 15 Mar 2002
- 16,758
- 2,298
You're twenty-five. I do hope you'll forgive me a snicker.
No offense taken.
Alright.
But how does learning Japanese at a breakneck pace (or at all, for that matter) figure into the picture?
Haruspex
先輩
- 30 Aug 2007
- 2,324
- 96
Most anime openings have karaoke so you're lucky with that
Hmm w1ingzer0 you could check the japanese in 20 weeks thread, the site's owner has a link for quite a nice flashcard program in case you're interested, i found it easier to use a pc app. than real flashcards, well up to you. And about not rushing things... well i kinda spread all my spare time studying, but it doesn't become a burden, i simply don't have anything better to do, yes of course, i could watch animes, listen to music, go out, play games, but they all bore me. I rarely have motivation, so it feels like a waste not to study when i feel like doing it, (and that rarely happens unless its a language or history). Well i guess its different for everyone.
I dunno if its wrong, but i didn't start learning kanji yet, i simply couldn't find myself a method to start it. What do you suggest, should i just try to remember them or is there a trick to it?
Hmm w1ingzer0 you could check the japanese in 20 weeks thread, the site's owner has a link for quite a nice flashcard program in case you're interested, i found it easier to use a pc app. than real flashcards, well up to you. And about not rushing things... well i kinda spread all my spare time studying, but it doesn't become a burden, i simply don't have anything better to do, yes of course, i could watch animes, listen to music, go out, play games, but they all bore me. I rarely have motivation, so it feels like a waste not to study when i feel like doing it, (and that rarely happens unless its a language or history
). Well i guess its different for everyone.I dunno if its wrong, but i didn't start learning kanji yet, i simply couldn't find myself a method to start it. What do you suggest, should i just try to remember them or is there a trick to it?
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- 4 Sep 2007
- 113
- 3
@Derfel: Remembering the Kanji by James Heisig. It's the best thing to happen since toilet paper.
PC Flashcard programs are nice, but it's even better to have something you can take with you.
@Wingzero: Nothing wrong with liking Japanese TV. That might actually be better for your studies since now you don't find yourself able to talk about spaceships but unable to order food in a restaurant.
Hiragana and Katakana version of books? How does that work?
---
My routine doesn't involve x hours of studying a day. Rather, it's pretty simple. I read through one lesson of Remembering the Kanji per day. As for my grammar book, I stick on one lesson for a few days to make sure I got all the grammar points and the vocab down, then move on to the next. I learn at a pretty rapid pace this way.
If ever you feel that impatience again, try to think back to your high school years. My school doesn't offer Japanese, but for the sake of explanation, let's assume they do. Judging by my experiences taking Spanish in high school, I'm guessing that right now, my Japanese level is in between Japanese 2 and 3. Again, for the sake of explanation, let's call it Japanese 2.5. I've been studying for 5 months to reach this level. So basically, I learned 24 months (2.5 years, not counting summer vacation) of high school Japanese in 5. Pretty good pace. Think of how far you've come in studying, and go through this thought process yourself. That should leave you a lot more satisfied with your pace.
PC Flashcard programs are nice, but it's even better to have something you can take with you.
@Wingzero: Nothing wrong with liking Japanese TV. That might actually be better for your studies since now you don't find yourself able to talk about spaceships but unable to order food in a restaurant.
Hiragana and Katakana version of books? How does that work?
---
My routine doesn't involve x hours of studying a day. Rather, it's pretty simple. I read through one lesson of Remembering the Kanji per day. As for my grammar book, I stick on one lesson for a few days to make sure I got all the grammar points and the vocab down, then move on to the next. I learn at a pretty rapid pace this way.
If ever you feel that impatience again, try to think back to your high school years. My school doesn't offer Japanese, but for the sake of explanation, let's assume they do. Judging by my experiences taking Spanish in high school, I'm guessing that right now, my Japanese level is in between Japanese 2 and 3. Again, for the sake of explanation, let's call it Japanese 2.5. I've been studying for 5 months to reach this level. So basically, I learned 24 months (2.5 years, not counting summer vacation) of high school Japanese in 5. Pretty good pace. Think of how far you've come in studying, and go through this thought process yourself. That should leave you a lot more satisfied with your pace.
Haruspex
先輩
- 30 Aug 2007
- 2,324
- 96
Well i don't think you need 10 years to be able to speak fluently in your chosen subjects, but you know you don't have to speak about criminology or or roman law when you're an engineer, and you don't have to speak about aerodynamics or cybernetics when you're a lawyer. For example, my english is more or less fluent, i could probably follow a history class, but on the other hand i probably wouldn't understand a thing from a math lesson if i were to listen one. You don't actually need to study the language for 10 years to be able to enjoy it.
- 4 Sep 2007
- 113
- 3
Learning a language is a constantly ongoing process, but you have nothing to worry about with it taking forever and getting nowhere. If you studied at a good, constant pace for 10 years, you'd REALLY kick some serious rear in the language. But the time needed to achieve enough fluency to have intelligent, complex discussions with people won't be nearly as long. I'd wager 3 years, sooner if you were living in Japan at some point during that time. By the end of that time, you should be able to discuss the vast majority of the topics that come up in a native Japanese person's conversation. You may not be able to talk about arterial hypertension and its pervading repercussions on the current progression of reformation in the health-care system, but how often do you talk about that?
Dude! You don't have an actual textbook, only references, phrasebooks and flashcards.
If you seriously intend to learn Japanese I suggest buying a real textbook. There are lots out there like Genki, Minna no Nihongo, Colloquial Japanese, Nakama, Japanese for Busy People, Ultimate Japanese, Japanese the Spoken Language and others. Find one you like and stick with it.
I was wondering the same thing,I mean its only 10-20 dollars for the student or teacher version(which is much better than barnes&noble :auch
.
I agree with evil,I didn't assume that it'd take me more than 3-5 years to be able to speak the language and hold my own in a conversation.
.I agree with evil,I didn't assume that it'd take me more than 3-5 years to be able to speak the language and hold my own in a conversation.
w1ngzer0
後輩
- 17 Jan 2004
- 262
- 0
- Thread starter
- #19
I also found these. Any recommendations or comments on these products?
Talkman:Talking Global with PSP
Media World | Rakuten Global Market: [PSP] TALKMAN TRAVEL (Talkman travel) (20071213)
Lets you practice your speech and reading. But, no writing since the PSP isn't a touch screen.
Shadowing: Let's Speak Japanese! (CD included!)
Buy Shadowing: Let's Speak Japanese! (Beginner to Intermediate) – White Rabbit Japan
Lets you practice your reading and listening skills again. But, not sure why i would get this when i could have something interactive with the PSP
Japanese Graded Readers Level 1 - Volume 2 is designed for a proficiency level equivalent to Japanese Language Proficiency Test Level 4
Japanese Graded Readers Level 1 Vol. 1 – White Rabbit Japan
Japanese speakers and current students. What are your experiences with these or what do you think of them?
Thanks
Talkman:Talking Global with PSP
Media World | Rakuten Global Market: [PSP] TALKMAN TRAVEL (Talkman travel) (20071213)
Lets you practice your speech and reading. But, no writing since the PSP isn't a touch screen.
Shadowing: Let's Speak Japanese! (CD included!)
Buy Shadowing: Let's Speak Japanese! (Beginner to Intermediate) – White Rabbit Japan
Lets you practice your reading and listening skills again. But, not sure why i would get this when i could have something interactive with the PSP
Japanese Graded Readers Level 1 - Volume 2 is designed for a proficiency level equivalent to Japanese Language Proficiency Test Level 4
Japanese Graded Readers Level 1 Vol. 1 – White Rabbit Japan
Japanese speakers and current students. What are your experiences with these or what do you think of them?
Thanks
w1ngzer0
後輩
- 17 Jan 2004
- 262
- 0
- Thread starter
- #20
im excited i got the first 10 hiragana down in 2 days. Fizzah! hopefully it will go faster the more i learn. That will be my goal. learn 10 hiragana a day until im done with it. Then find someway to test myself at the end. If i know all the hiragana i'll move to katakana then kanji and reading.
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- 4 Sep 2007
- 113
- 3
Hmm, I don't have experience with any of those. The only grammar textbook I've bought is Ultimate Japanese. Ultimate Japanese is a mixed bag.
You can buy CDs that are designed for use with the book. It's helpful, but it really jacks the price up.
UJ is printed in romaji. They have kana/kanji versions starting at lesson 15 (out of 40), but really, they don't focus on reading enough.
Grammar is well-ordered, clear, and relevant. They recycle words and grammar in the dialogues of later lessons so you're less likely to forget them.
There tend to be a few inconsistencies (usually between the CDs and the book) throughout. Nothing killer, but still annoying when they happen. Two lessons' CDs (20 and 30) are just horrible.
Overall, I would not recommend UJ Beginner-Intermediate. UJ Advanced so far seems to be a different story. I've only had Advanced for a few days, but I feel it really improves in many areas, and focuses on what's important. Once I've had a chance to screw around with it longer, I'll give you a more complete look at UJ Advanced.
You can buy CDs that are designed for use with the book. It's helpful, but it really jacks the price up.
UJ is printed in romaji. They have kana/kanji versions starting at lesson 15 (out of 40), but really, they don't focus on reading enough.
Grammar is well-ordered, clear, and relevant. They recycle words and grammar in the dialogues of later lessons so you're less likely to forget them.
There tend to be a few inconsistencies (usually between the CDs and the book) throughout. Nothing killer, but still annoying when they happen. Two lessons' CDs (20 and 30) are just horrible.
Overall, I would not recommend UJ Beginner-Intermediate. UJ Advanced so far seems to be a different story. I've only had Advanced for a few days, but I feel it really improves in many areas, and focuses on what's important. Once I've had a chance to screw around with it longer, I'll give you a more complete look at UJ Advanced.
JimmySeal
Tubthumper
- 5 Mar 2006
- 1,516
- 78
UJ B-I was the first textbook I tried way back when and I still think it's pretty sweet. As language textbooks go, I still think it's one of the best, despite its romaji layout.. I got caught up because after a while, I was having trouble taking in the new vocabulary and wanted to push forward with more grammar points. An SRS program is a good cure for that problem.
- 15 Mar 2002
- 16,758
- 2,298
I wish it was at a breakneck pace
My point is is i want to learn the language fast and not over the course of ANOTHER 10 years. Where i am learning the basics agian.
It might be more paranoia more then anything.
I understand your feelings on that. But I still don't see how learning Japanese (whether fast or slow) figures in on your comment about not being under the control of others and the business about your income. Is Japanese proficiency a central point of some sort of plan you have?
w1ngzer0
後輩
- 17 Jan 2004
- 262
- 0
- Thread starter
- #24
Yes, it is. I want to start my own business. Doing business between Japan and USA. There is already a lot of it going on; but, I want to get into that market. What market? im not sure. Eletronic and automotive is a couple of the obvious ones.
China would be another huge one. But, I won't be learning mandarin until i get my Japanese language skill at a business level.
China would be another huge one. But, I won't be learning mandarin until i get my Japanese language skill at a business level.
JimmySeal
Tubthumper
- 5 Mar 2006
- 1,516
- 78
Language learning takes time no matter how you cut it. I think we've all felt that "full brain" feeling (I think I felt it several times today) and if you follow through with Japanese, you're going to feel it many more times over the next few years before you reach any major level of Japanese ability.
What's so bad about conducting business in English within the United States? Do you have to be conducting international business with Japan to be the master of your own destiny? If your grand (yet vague) scheme hinges on your yet-to-develop foreign language abilities, you're going to be waiting around for a while.
What's so bad about conducting business in English within the United States? Do you have to be conducting international business with Japan to be the master of your own destiny? If your grand (yet vague) scheme hinges on your yet-to-develop foreign language abilities, you're going to be waiting around for a while.
