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Utterly Lost | Japan Forum
You're riding along a faulty logical path here. Not only are your last two sentences not valid, but you're fundamentally misunderstanding the distinction between "location" and "destination" in the given descriptions.Just looked through the thread you linked. I've seen most of that before, but clearly I'm not understanding something still. For example, you mentioned the phrase:
公園でベンチに座った。
I sat down on a bench in a park.
The way I interpret this is that this event occurred in the past, which had to involve movement to the bench in the park, before you sat there. The に particle is appropriate here because there was movement. But if I say:
公園でベンチに座っている。
I am sitting on a bench in a park.
--then I am already at the destination and am already doing the sitting, so there is no connotation of movement whatsoever. Thus if this phrase stands alone, I believe the park or bench would be more accurately described as a location and not a destination because there is no movement per se. This is why に makes less sense to me than で.
Another thing you mentioned in that thread which was confusing:
"で indicates the location of action, whereas に is for destination or arrival point with connoting a nuance of "direction" when used with 座る or 停める "to park a car". In the first example below, "park" was the location where the action "sitting" took place, and "bench" was the destination the action "sitting" was done"
You delineate で and に by saying the former indicates a location of action while the latter indicates a destination. I understand this (I think), but where you say:
(the) "park" was the location where the action "sitting" took place, and "bench" was the destination the action "sitting" was done"
I feel that both the park and the bench are both 1) locations where the action was done and 2) destinations. Any destination is a location, and many times vice versa is true, and so saying:
公園でベンチで座っている。
or:
公園にベンチに座った。
should also be valid.
How do you think about 駅に着いた, then? You already arrived at the station, so there is no action/movement anymore, but you don't need to change the particle, right? This is because the station is the destination whether the action is completed or not. The verb forms just indicate the tense or aspect, and に is used for the destination for all tenses/aspects even if the movement is already finished.But if I say:
公園でベンチに座っている。
I am sitting on a bench in a park.
--then I am already at the destination and am already doing the sitting, so there is no connotation of movement whatsoever.
Oh! Thank you for clarifying! Please, by all means, nitpick me without mercy! I need to learn more.Nice explanation, AmerikaJin5-san! :emoji_thumbsup:
Sorry for nitpicking, but actually, 駅前で立っています is acceptable since "in front of the station" can be considered also as the location of the action (the action "standing" is done in front of the station). It's similar to 床に倒れている and 床で倒れている are both valid.