An American View Of Japanese Military Expansion

De Luit · 10 Feb 2007

Well, I'd like to voice my opinion on this somewhat contraversal topic. As an American looking to join my own government's military, I am supportive of all who show patriotism for their country by military service. Also, I view Japanese Military Expansion as an extremely vital step upward for the nation, stepping away further from the umbrella of American protection and furthering their own goals and vision for their part of the world....but I realize that many of the Japanese do no feel that way, and that both China and South Korea have expressed concern over the subject. I myself hope to see a strong Japanese military presence in my lifetime, with Japan fully standing upon its own legs without the interference by another government.

So, what do y'all think?

Davey · 10 Feb 2007

I think it is a good thing that Japan wants to work on it's Military expansion, until a certain point of course (the question from a minister if Japan should also own nuclear weapons was just ridiculous). Japan is economically a big power in the world, as well as with other things, so why shouldn't Japan be able to have a Defence minister, and a larger SDF than they have now.

junjunforever · 11 Feb 2007

although i would eventually be "pro", i will be against it until they have universal acceptance and confession for their past wrongdoings.

Just looking over this forum and 2ch.net, it seems many Japanese still feel they have only helped East Asia liberate from the West, and do not receive the credit they deserve. They feel Asians should be thanking them backwards for the colonial period.

Until they have that issue figured out, Japanese military expansion will only bring arms race in the region.

MajideSaiaku · 11 Feb 2007

No, never, Japan has a more then capable self defence force along with more then plentiful US forces stationed around the country.

If Japan wants a full blown army and fantasies of foreign expiditions, it can do it staring down the barrel of some Chinese or Korean guns.

Sorry Japan, empire was last century, and the US takes enough flak as it is for its pitiful attempts at wars, military build-up and expeditions are no lnoger a viable option for you.

Your neighbours wouldnt allow it.

And frankly I personally dont see the need.

Sepiola · 12 Feb 2007

However, Foreign Minister Taro Aso said, "If the United States is attacked , Japan should help because the United States will help, if Japan receives an attack."

KirinMan · 12 Feb 2007

It really wouldn't take all that much for the JSDF to become an "active" military force, political ramifications not withstanding. The JSDF is very well equipped and it's Maritime Self Defense forces have top of the line Aegis ships as well. They are however for "self" defense, but could be used offensively (no pun intended) as well.

The JSDF (Military) budget is limited by law, I think to something like 1% or 2% of the GNP of the country. The total money for the military has increased greatly over the years because of the strength of the Japanese economy.

Also the constitution would have to be rewritten and considering the political climate right now I personally dont see the JSDF becoming a military in the sense of what the US has anytime soon or for the near future as well.

Participating in UN operations however is another story altogether.

KirinMan · 12 Feb 2007

Dutch Baka said:
I think it is a good thing that Japan wants to work on it's Military expansion, until a certain point of course (the question from a minister if Japan should also own nuclear weapons was just ridiculous). Japan is economically a big power in the world, as well as with other things, so why shouldn't Japan be able to have a Defence minister, and a larger SDF than they have now.

Giving a "title" to it's minister may make him an "equal" in many people's eyes but I don't think that his counterparts in countries throughout the world truly see him as such.

I agree that it is ridiculous to think that Japan would develop nuclear weapons but it isn't because of a lack of technology though.

What purpose would a larger SDF have? If it is truly a SDF why would a larger one be necessary? Other than to decrease the unemployment rate and put more people on the government payroll. They also would have problems keeping it's enlistment quotas as well with the current declining population.

Do you foresee some country actually attacking or invading Japan?

caster51 · 12 Feb 2007

old book

THE RISE AND FALL OF THE GREAT POWERSﾂ〈Kennedy, Paulﾂ〉

If japan learns from history, The country that cannot defend the home country herself disappears.

that is,"Do not rely on the United States as the mercenary".

How did the country that had relied on the mercenary for peace and enjoyment become it?......from history

Dr. J. M. · 17 Feb 2007

"Do not rely on the United States as the mercenary"? Intriguing.
Nonetheless, without the US of A Japan wouldn't have the slightest chances of surviving a full blown war with her neighbours (considering China's nuclear capabilities.). The US cannot be defeated conventionally and a nuclear war would end up devastingly for everyone. No state would attack the US, neither conventionally nor with nuclear weapons, unless they have a death wish.
If Japan had nuclear weapons, they would spark an arms race in that region, thus destabilizing it even further. So, in the end if Japan goes nuclear everybody loses (In the worst case, Japan and probalby parts of China end up as smoking piles of radioactive rubble and wastelands.).

If japan learns from history, The country that cannot defend the home country herself disappears.

Poland couldn't defend itself numerous times in history, yet it still exists.

caster51 · 17 Feb 2007

without the US of A Japan wouldn't have the slightest chances of surviving a full blown war with her neighbours

I dont think so.
that is why japan need own army.

The US cannot be defeated conventionally and a nuclear war would end up devastingly for everyone

in 2005, The United States of America declared that she did not attack North Korea.
It should be considered that the United States nuclear umbrella doesn't exist in present Japan.

So, in the end if Japan goes nuclear everybody loses (In the worst case, Japan and probalby parts of China end up as smoking piles of radioactive rubble and wastelands.).

I dont think so....
all we know what Kamikaze pilot means.....
When the Japanese decides on something to do, they do it with perfection.

Poland couldn't defend itself numerous times in history, yet it still exists

However, Poland has disappeared, too.

KirinMan · 17 Feb 2007

However, Poland has disappeared, too.

Where? The last time I looked it still was a part of Europe. Do you have a different map?

caster51 · 17 Feb 2007

Ok my bad
Poland has disappeared before.

Phoenicia
Phoenicia - Wikipedia
Carthage
Carthage - Wikipedia
these nations were commerce nation as same as today's Japan

Holy Roman Empire
Holy Roman Empire - Wikipedia

The feature that these are ruined was to have relied on the mercenary.

KirinMan · 17 Feb 2007

caster51 said:
Ok my bad
Poland has disappeared before.

No problem. It really hasn't disappeared in the physical sense, just politically.
Caster I would truly appreciate it if you would quit editing your posts and adding information well after the fact, particularly after it has been replied to. :box: :box:

It makes it hard for people to respect what you have to write or say. Editing spelling thats one thing but adding three links just out of arrogance, is wrong.

Dr. J. M. · 18 Feb 2007

caster51 said:
I dont think so.
that is why japan need own army.

Yeah, right, because soldiers, warships and tanks can repel nuclear strikes?

in 2005, The United States of America declared that she did not attack North Korea.

Source? Under what circumstances?

It should be considered that the United States nuclear umbrella doesn't exist in present Japan.

It does. Otherwise it would be a ridicioulsly easy task for nuclear-armed China to crush Japan. And the Chinese know that, without that umbrella East-Asian politics would look different, imho.

I dont think so....
all we know what Kamikaze pilot means.....
When the Japanese decides on something to do, they do it with perfection.

Being stubborn doesn't mean to do something with perfection.
Kamikaze pilots didn't stop the US from obliterating Hiroshima and Nagasaki. No matter how massive the conventional troops, they cannot stop nuclear ICBMs. You'd need something like a SDI to manage that and if the US couldn't establish such a thing with all their militairy research and overblown 'defense' budget what makes you think that Japan could pull it off so easily?
Assuming you're right about the vanishing of the nuclear umbrella, what makes you think that China would tolerate a build up of Japanese troops?

caster51 · 18 Feb 2007

Source? Under what circumstances?

It was declared that it did not use force to North Korea though the United
States used force to Iraq. ...
The United States doesn't agree to the security agreement of the U.S. and N-korea.
North Korea is scared only the United States .
anyway ,The United States profit arises from the tension of Asia.
The United States cannot win to China ,either
it is simple japan should A-bomds, too

You'd need something like a SDI to manage that and if the US couldn't establish such a thing with all their militairy research and overblown 'defense' budget what makes you think that Japan could pull it off so easily?

that is why I said when japan decided......as a nation's Life-and-death crises.

gs001 · 18 Feb 2007

personally I'd like to see Japanese rebuild its army and begin expansion
again. that will give China a chance to retaliate what they did to China
70 years ago.
At that time, China was led by an idiot--Jiangjieshi, under his leadship,
Chinese army just like sheep without a shepherd, China was defeated easily
by Japan again and again even with the help of Germany, Soviet Union and USA.
But when Communist came to power, things became quite different.
I think Americans have known the difference because of the Korean war.
Perhaps Japanese will know the difference in the next war?
The conclusion:
if Japanese want to destory themself, then they own an Army.
if Japanese want to suicide then they own A-bombs.

MajideSaiaku · 18 Feb 2007

gs001's nationalist attitude aside, he has somewhat of a point.

As it stand, Japan having a full blown military leads to only one thing: antagonising east Asia and setting itself up for a war.

Military power has shifted in Asia, China is the big war dog now, Japan is the harmless wealthy island country.

Japan should get used to this state of affairs because it isnt going to change anytime soon, and unlike in antiquity, a bit of water seperating Japan from mainland Asia is no longer a reliable barrier to outside influence and attack.

This is what happens when Japan has a modern army.

Japan was making attempts on conquest before modernization, the samurai invasion of Korea.

And before that Japan was one of the more prolific believers in the constant internal warfare that has plagued Japan.

Without others Japan turned on itself, when it had neighbours it turned on them.

Since Hiroshima, a horrific event, Japan has found peace, it has found wealth, it has found a way to live dettached from its otherwise bloody past.

the past 60 years has seen Japan for the first time thriving and living in a prosperity it could never dream of, even in a recession, without needing to raise a single fist in anger towards a neighbour or each other.

I dunno, I just dont see why Japan would want to ruin that, the past 60 years has proven beyond a doubt a nation doesnt need war to not only exist peacefully but grow and thrive and become vibrant.

Japanese militarism, a central part being having a military, is a bloodied relic of the past.

Whatever Japan's future is, at least for the forseeable future, doesnt involve the weilding of a sword, so why does it need one?. The SDF is more then enough, especially with US forces stationed there, to protect Japans territorial integrity.

It has proven it doesnt need to send military expeditions all around the world to secure its interests and economic strength, so why does it need it now?.

Japanese military: NO THANKYOU.

KirinMan · 18 Feb 2007

It has proven it doesnt need to send military expeditions all around the world to secure its interests and economic strength, so why does it need it now?.

Well said, there are other ways to conquer the world.

tanuki otoko · 18 Feb 2007

furthering their own goals and vision for their part of the world

Actually it would be better for Japan, Korea and China to reconcile and to work on a future East Asian of mutual prosperty and general welfare. It worked in Europe, why shouldn't it work in Asian?

Dr. J. M. · 18 Feb 2007

caster51 said:
It was declared that it did not use force to North Korea though the United
States used force to Iraq. ...
The United States doesn't agree to the security agreement of the U.S. and N-korea.
North Korea is scared only the United States .
anyway ,The United States profit arises from the tension of Asia.
The United States cannot win to China ,either
it is simple japan should A-bomds, too

Because the US declared it won't attack North Korea out of the blue Japan suddenly lacks the United States' nuclear umbrella? That's absurd. Furthermore it is understandable that the US doesn't want to fight a major war! They are fighting in Iraq and have fighting troops in Afghanistan. To declare war on N. Korea in that situation would be very expensive, it would prompt N. Korea to strike against S. Korea and probably Japan with nuclear weapons and it would force the Chinese to take a side in this conflict. A war against N. Korea is one of the most unreasonable things to do (I guess the US wouldn't be that affected by the war, but Japan, North and South Korea would be severly damaged.). In addition figthing a war in that region will cut some very lucrative economic ties.

that is why I said when japan decided......as a nation's Life-and-death crises.

Is this supposed to be a joke? Just to put it into perspective: The US couldn't achieve the SDI with a much greater population, the NASA, actual plans to do so and a militairy spending unparalled in all of history, but as soon as Japan 'decides' to establish such a system, they will easily pull it off? Without any research done in that area, with much less funding and all this under the eyes of China? Because it is in a "Life-and-death crisis"? I've got news for you: The US were in a "life-and-death crisis" as well, together with the whole world when the SDI plans first emerged, it was called "the Cold War", ever heard of it?

Nurizeko is right in his analysis, imho.

Davey · 18 Feb 2007

If you look at Japan, without looking at it's past, why should they not have a military that is able to defense their country and help out in world conflicts?

That's the same what Germany is doing right? So why can't Japan.

To think that Japan has any ambition to conquerer East-Asia is just B-****, because they are together with China the largest power in east Asia.

Dr. J. M. · 18 Feb 2007

That's pretty simple: An even larger militairy than the SDF will merely destabilize the region further. And having more militairy won't bring more defense, as they cannot effectively repel any nuclear strike. So what's the purpose of a larger militairy other than to destabilize and waste money?
The SDF suffices.

The Bundeswehr and the SDF are roughly equal in troop strength and both are actively involved in peacekeeping. So what's your point? (okay, okay, proportion-wise Japan should have a few more troops but the higher German numbers are still a relic of the Cold War past and because of the conscription which is still active there.)

KirinMan · 19 Feb 2007

Dutch Baka said:
If you look at Japan, without looking at it's past, why should they not have a military that is able to defense their country and help out in world conflicts?
That's the same what Germany is doing right? So why can't Japan.

Dutch, 2nd time here with this

What purpose would a larger SDF have? If it is truly a SDF why would a larger one be necessary? Other than to decrease the unemployment rate and put more people on the government payroll. They also would have problems keeping it's enlistment quotas as well with the current declining population.
Do you foresee some country actually attacking or invading Japan?

I think you are getting caught up in terminology here, the Japanese SDF is more than capable of defending Japan from an invader. Hence calling it an Self Defense Force.

However all it would take to make it a full blown military is a change to the constitution. Technically it is a military now, there isn't much difference between a SDF and a "military" look at the Israeli IDF.

Dr. J. M. · 20 Feb 2007

Obeika said:
Dutch, 2nd time here with this
I think you are getting caught up in terminology here, the Japanese SDF is more than capable of defending Japan from an invader. Hence calling it an Self Defense Force.
However all it would take to make it a full blown military is a change to the constitution. Technically it is a military now, there isn't much difference between a SDF and a "military" look at the Israeli IDF.

How do you define "military"? As far as I know military is defined as the armed forces of a state. (In democratic countries there is a difference between police and military, but technically the police also qualifies as military.)
Hence the SDF is Japan's military

MajideSaiaku · 20 Feb 2007

If you look at Japan, without looking at it's past, why should they not have a military that is able to defense their country and help out in world conflicts?

Looking at Japans military without remember Japanese history is like staring into the maw of a lion without remembering the countless times and evidence of lions eating other creatures.

And since we cant even trust the current world full blown militaries to stop getting involved in destabalizing wars of aggression, how can we expect Japan , faced with the unique situation east asia has, and Japan's history.

As I have said, Japan has a powerful economy, and a comfortable security situation, why it would feel the need to destabalise the region with a larger military, waste money on a larger military, and send its young men and women to go die for parts of the world the Japanese dont even know the name of, is beyond me.

An American View Of Japanese Military Expansion

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