１番目に大きい vs. １番大きい

[Soren]

Reading around, I've been generally seeing １番目に大きい rather than １番大きい (same for other numbers). Is the second construction unnatural for 大きい?

Other adjectives that I've seen seem to take the second construction - are there any other adjectives that commonly take the first?

Thanks,

 

[Scrivener]

The first one gets about 8000 Google hits, the second one gets about 4000, but 最大 gets 3.5 million hits (8.25 million hits if you don't specify Japanese as the language). That's also the one I prefer to use.

 

[Soren]

The first one gets about 8000 Google hits, the second one gets about 4000, but 最大 gets 3.5 million hits (8.25 million hits if you don't specify Japanese as the language). That's also the one I prefer to use.

Thanks. I hadn't learnt about 最 yet....judging from some searching, it can be used with other adjectives as well.

It seems that using 1 wasn't the best example If I had used 4 rather than 1 in the original question - do you know if it is it just with 大きい that the first construction (4番目に大きい) is preferred?

 

[Scrivener]

To tell the truth I dunno, maybe WakaP will come by. #1 sounds slightly more "formal" to me.

 

[kara]

It's not a matter of the type of the adjective. The key is the number/order.

About the first/last/most/least things, basically we use ﾋ?ｪ窶敕板〜;
ﾋ?ｪ窶敕披?佚･窶堋ｫ窶堋｢(ichiban ookii - the largest), ﾋ?ｪ窶敕板渉ｬ窶堋ｳ窶堋｢(ichiban chiisai - the smallest)
ﾋ?ｪ窶敕披?敕ｼ窶堋ｵ窶堋｢(ichiban utsukushiii - the most beautiful), ﾋ?ｪ窶敕披?ｰﾋ懌?堋｢(ichiban kitanai - the dirtiest)
ﾋ?ｪ窶敕披?敕ｼ窶督｡窶堋ｵ窶堋｢(ichiban oishii - the most delicious), ﾋ?ｪ窶敕板坂?壺?堋｢(ichiban takai - the tallest)

About things between the first(most) and the last(least), basically we use X窶敕披?禿壺?堙可〜:
2窶敕披?禿壺?堙俄?佚･窶堋ｫ窶堋｢(nibanme ni ookii - the second-largest),
3窶敕披?禿壺?堙可渉ｬ窶堋ｳ窶堋｢(sanbanme ni chiisai - the third smallest)
4窶敕披?禿壺?堙可坂?壺?堋｢(yonbanme ni takai - the fourth tallest)

 

[gedatsu]

so when specifiying the least of something, what do you use? 一番すくない?

一番すくない大きい。the least biggest...? Does that work? Or should you just use the opposite adjective? ie. 一番小さい, the smallest.

 

[Scrivener]

一番すくない大きい sounds about as good in Japanese as "the least biggest" sounds in English. "Pass me the least biggest piece of pie, would you please?" "What???"

Least is 最少の usually I think.

 

[gedatsu]

Yep, I know it sounds strange, I was just asking from a technical standpoint.
I'll use 最小 then

 

[kara]

> ﾋ?ｪ窶敕披?堋ｷ窶堋ｭ窶堙遺?堋｢窶佚･窶堋ｫ窶堋｢ﾂ。the least biggest...? Does that work?

Sounds very strange/unnatural. You should use the opposite adjective(ﾋ?ｪ窶敕板渉ｬ窶堋ｳ窶堋｢).


> Or should you just use the opposite adjective?

Instead of "the least biggest" construction, there's "ﾋ?ｪ窶敕 + adjective + negative affix" construction in Japanese grammar(ﾋ?ｪ窶敕披?佚･窶堋ｫ窶堋ｭ窶堙遺?堋｢, ﾋ?ｪ窶敕藩??窶堋ｭ窶堙遺?堋｢, ﾋ?ｪ窶敕披?敕ｼ窶督｡窶堋ｵ窶堋ｭ窶堙遺?堋｢, ﾋ?ｪ窶敕板広窶堋ｭ窶堙遺?堋｢, ﾋ?ｪ窶敕版?ﾃｰ窶堋ｵ窶堋ｭ窶堙遺?堋｢......).

However, "ﾋ?ｪ窶敕 + adjective + negative affix" doesn't always mean "the least ---est". There's an alternative.

ﾋ?ｪ窶敕披?佚･窶堋ｫ窶堋ｭ窶堙遺?堋｢--> 1)the least biggest, 2)anything/something but the biggest one
ﾋ?ｪ窶敕藩??窶堋ｭ窶堙遺?堋｢--> 1)the least cheapest, 2)anything/something but the cheapest one
ﾋ?ｪ窶敕板広窶堋ｭ窶堙遺?堋｢--> 1)the least widest, 2)anything/something but the widest one