なんきょくかい is correct (う is unnecessary, by the way). I can't think of any example of location names "~うみ".The dictionaries I use read 南極海 as なんきょうくかい. Google Translate reads なんきょうくうみ. I suppose the former should be the right one, shouldn't it?
Sorry I got carried away and presumptuously extrapolate that.As I wrote above, the dictionary explained about the difference between ~に触る and ~を触る. They, or I never said that's the difference between に and を in general.
Can you please confirm the above?Now I've got it. The main difference is whether it is intentional or not. Then does it purely depend on how the speaker feels so it can be variable or are they fixed with situations?
For example:
Can I simply change the above example sentences to the following?
彼にそれに触らせるな。 intentional -> unintentional を -> に
髪の毛をさわった。 unintentional -> intentional に -> を
彼女はだれかが背中にさわるのを感じた。 intentional -> unintentional を -> に
What is the difference in meaning between your highlighted text?the verbs you listed are mostly for moving from a place to another place, and を indicates location of moving
I think I already answered it. Isn't this enough?Can you please confirm the above?
I emphasized the difference between を and に in function for those verbs.What is the difference in meaning between your highlighted text?
To me they are the same because they all move from one place to another. That's where I failed to accurately define it. Please reword it or elaborate a bit more
I was simply expecting a yes or no answer but I didn't get it. As far as I understand from what you've quoted from the dictionary に触るfor unintentional touch whereas を触るfor intentional touch. So I changed the particle にand をin my example sentences to ask for your confirmation in order to be sure of my understanding. I did gather that was not absolute and it has just been the tendency. Probably that was why you didn't give me a clear-cut answer.I think I already answered it. Isn't this enough?
I do realise that that にand をare different with the movement verbs where にhas the nuance of reaching the destination whereas をhas the nuance of moving along the place mentioned. Having said that I now understand what your highlighted texts mean.I emphasized the difference between を and に in function for those verbs.
Yes for "に and を are interchangeable", and no for your interpretation "intentional -> unintentional を -> に" or "unintentional -> intentional に -> を". Isn't this the same as;I was simply expecting a yes or no answer but I didn't get it. As far as I understand from what you've quoted from the dictionary に触るfor unintentional touch whereas を触るfor intentional touch. So I changed the particle にand をin my example sentences to ask for your confirmation in order to be sure of my understanding. I did gather that was not absolute and it has just been the tendency. Probably that was why you didn't give me a clear-cut answer.
The point is that 山 can refer to both the top of a mountain and the whole mountain, therefore 山に登る and 山を登る are both possible. 階段に登る is odd since "ladder" is not the destination when you climb a ladder. The same goes to slope or roof (roof is the destination, and not the location of moving, except a special case like I mentioned in the thread I linked).I do have some question with the examples of climbing the mountain and climbing the ladder though. It says on the other thread that 山に登る has the nuance of getting to the top. I suppose it would be the same for the ladder and the roof, or even the slope.
Just 階段を登る or 坂を登る. Even if the final destination is the fifth station of a mountain, 山に登る is valid.What if one wants to say going up but not all the way?
No. both mean "to go to climb a mountain". Think about sentences like 映画館に行く, レストランに行く or デパートに行く. You usually go to a movie theater to watch a movie, and not just go to the entrance of it, don't you? In the same sense, if a mountaineer says 来年はエベレストに行く, it means he/she is going to climb Mt. Everest next year.山に行く or 山へ行くmean getting to and going to the foot of the mountain only, don't they?
I apologize that I've misread it. So に for intentional and を for unintentional as far as 触る is concerned.no for your interpretation "intentional -> unintentional を -> に" or "unintentional -> intentional に -> を"
Then which one would you usually say? How to determine the preference?If you just want to say "to touch something", you can use both ~に触る and ~を触る.
I gather we should say 階段を登る or 坂を登る or はしごを登る and に never comes in for smaller space to cover.階段に登る is odd since "ladder" is not the destination when you climb a ladder.
So 山に登る should be said when referring to climbing mountain whereas 山を登る has no nuance of action. A bit tricky to take this one in. I simply echo your statement so that you can verify my thinking. I probably need some time for it to sink in.It is necessary to be を for him. (を indicates the purpose, not the location of moving, needless to say.)
Are the first one and the second one below the same meaning in all aspects, i.e. including nuance and so forth? I suppose the third one is just a statement in general without specifically referring to climbing. I'm somewhat struggling to describe it. As you said it is for stating a purpose so the chance for us saying を登る with mountains is not as often.来年はエベレストに行く
No, The tendency is に for unintentional and を for intentional, as the dictionary or I explained.I apologize that I've misread it. So に for intentional and を for unintentional as far as 触る is concerned.
に would be more common, but を is not wrong. Also, there is a tendency as already explained, but you can think you can use both, unless you are not like Mokichi.Then which one would you usually say? How to determine the preference?
The size doesn't matter, as I already pointed out. You can't say ジャックは天まで続くはしごに登りました even if the ladder reaches the heaven since はしご is not his destination. 山 is just a tricky example.I gather we should say 階段を登る or 坂を登る or はしごを登る and に never comes in for smaller space to cover.
山に登る is more common for "to climb a mountain". 山を登る can have different nuances; 1) を indicates the location of moving (e.g. 山を登っているとき、突然雨が 降ってきました。 in Glenn-san's post in the thread linked above), or 2) を is for a purpose (e.g. 日本百名山を登る). Specific mountain names (proper nouns) are often used for the meaning #2, since "purpose" is often concrete. There is no grammatical problem to use に for both cases, as I wrote in my previous post, though.So 山に登る should be said when referring to climbing mountain whereas 山を登る has no nuance of action. A bit tricky to take this one in. I simply echo your statement so that you can verify my thinking. I probably need some time for it to sink in.
The first one usually means the same meaning as the second one. Of course there are cases where the subject only goes there and don't climb the mountain depending on the context, though. The third one strongly expresses the speaker's will "to climb Mt. Everest " (を for a purpose).Are the first one and the second one below the same meaning in all aspects, i.e. including nuance and so forth? I suppose the third one is just a statement in general without specifically referring to climbing. I'm somewhat struggling to describe it. As you said it is for stating a purpose so the chance for us saying を登る with mountains is not as often.
来年はエベレストに行く
来年はエベレストに登る
来年はエベレストを登る
That was what I had said in the first place but you said I was wrong. See below.No, The tendency is に for unintentional and を for intentional, as the dictionary or I explained.
Though you said the following later. I think you meant nothing need to be strictly adhered to.に触るfor unintentional touch whereas を触るfor intentional touch
it's possible to say
意識的に(= intentionally)髪の毛に触った
or
無意識に(= unintentionally)髪の毛を触った"
What does it mean when one verb in ~てform followed with 来る?降ってきました
What Toritoribe-san is saying (and I think he made this fairly clear) is that the _overall tendency_ is に for unintentional and を for intentional, but that this is not a 100% etched-in-stone rule, and that it is _possible_ to use them in the reverse, if it were explicitly spelled out like in the second group of example sentences.That was what I had said in the first place but you said I was wrong. See below.
In this instance, it means that it's begun to rain. ~ていく and ~てくる with the directional verbs いく and くる serving as auxiliary verbs is a very common and wide-ranging grammatical structure. It's too involved to type a huge explanation here, but a quick internet search should turn up multiple reference pages explaining this particular structure.What does it mean when one verb in ~てform followed with 来る?
It could be mine.your reading literacy...