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富士山に登ったことがあります

MTR

後輩
8 Jun 2009
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富士山を登ったことがあります
Which one is correct?
Are they both correct?
If both are correct, is there any difference?
:?
 
富士山を登ったことがあります
Which one is correct?
Are they both correct?
If both are correct, is there any difference?
:?
I believe that "ni nobotta" is the more usual form but "o nobotta" is also possible.

Incidentally I'm pretty sure that a very similar or identical question came up in a web forum recently, but I can't seem to find it using Google. As I remember these were example sentences from Tae Kim's grammar guide.
 
に indicates movement to the top or to an interior. を indicates a particular point/area which was hiked or climbed. (ここを登った).

富士山を登った sounds weird to me.
 
に indicates movement to the top or to an interior. を indicates a particular point/area which was hiked or climbed. (ここを登った).
富士山を登った sounds weird to me.
Well, 富士山を登った (in double quotes) gets 300,000 hits on Google, and 山を登った gets 2 million.
For comparison, 富士山に登った gets 1.5 million hits and 山に登った gets 6 million.
So it certainly seems like を登った is possible.
 
Well, 富士山を登った (in double quotes) gets 300,000 hits on Google, and 山を登った gets 2 million.
For comparison, 富士山に登った gets 1.5 million hits and 山に登った gets 6 million.
So it certainly seems like を登った is possible.
Yes, it is possible, as I said. As far as I understand meaning "the place where I climbed" like when you're pointing to it on a map.

I wonder how many non-native speakers have talked about climbing mountains in Japan, though. It's always an issues with Google searches.
 
Yes, it is possible, as I said.
Sorry, I'm having a little trouble following other people's chains of thought today.
I wonder how many non-native speakers have talked about climbing mountains in Japan, though. It's always an issues with Google searches.
Sure we should be careful about things like that, but in this case, if all those を cases were written by non-native speakers, that would mean that nearly 20% of all the people who have written about climbing Mount Fuji, and 25% of all the people who have written about climbing a mountain in Japanese on the internet would be non-native speakers who got mixed up between を and に when using 登る. And they are even going as far as to publish books with the mistake in it.

Another way to search on Google is to use an asterisk, as in 山*登る, and you can see what else might fit in there. I see a mixture of を and に without a very clear winner.
 
OK, I'll have to check my dictionaries again as well. :). Although I'm not really interested in the statistics (thanks for checking, though !) as much as what any differences may mean.

"を登る" has always been thought for climbing a ladder or something, which is more like stepping up and "scaling" with both hands and feet than "ascending" or "reaching for the top." (not はしごの頂まで登る) And there's the sport of mountain or rock climbing...登山をする...
 
I've checked my Genius and Dajirin dictionaries.

Apparently with mountains, you use the word 登る in に登る

When you want to use をのぼる, the preferred way of writing it is を上る。 You use this if you want to denote that something is going upwards.

And while に上る is possible, the meaning is denoted as 1) ある数量になる 2)取り上げられる 3)高い地位につく, which are different than the meaning we are talking about here.

I think that people choose 登る more than 上る in the case of climbing a mountain simply because the goal of climbing is usually to ascend AND reach the top (登る), instead of just ascending up (上る).
 
As far as the verb のぼる(登る・上る・昇る) is concerned, I'm not sure what is the condition when to use に and when to use を myself.
(It's clear with 下りる though)


山に登る OK 山に下りる NG
山を登る OK 山を下りる OK

木に登る OK 木に下りる NG
木を登る NG 木を下りる OK

坂に上る NG 坂に下りる NG
坂を上る OK 坂を下りる OK

 
As far as the verb のぼる(登る・上る・昇る) is concerned, I'm not sure what is the condition when to use に and when to use を myself.
(It's clear with 下りる though)


山に登る OK 山に下りる NG
山を登る OK 山を下りる OK

木に登る OK 木に下りる NG
木を登る NG 木を下りる OK

坂に上る NG 坂に下りる NG
坂を上る OK 坂を下りる OK
Thanks ! Probably に降りて(くる) refers to directionality only. 下に降りてくる etc. (Coming downstairs)

And から下りる/降りた for some of the above is also possible.:?
 
As far as the verb のぼる(登る・上る・昇る) is concerned, I'm not sure what is the condition when to use に and when to use を myself.
(It's clear with 下りる though)


山に登る OK 山に下りる NG
山を登る OK 山を下りる OK

木に登る OK 木に下りる NG
木を登る NG 木を下りる OK

坂に上る NG 坂に下りる NG
坂を上る OK 坂を下りる OK
That's pretty interesting. I was wondering if any of my books would have something on this, and indeed, 初級を教える人のための日本語文法ハンドブック does have this to say about it:

また、「山に登る」と「山を登る」も問題にされること があります。これは、ニ格が着点として「山」をとらえ ているのに対し、ヲ格は通過する場所としてとらえてい ると説明されます。
(9)山「?を・◯に」登った後、足が痛くなりまし た。
(10)山「◯を・?に」登っているとき、突然雨が 降ってきました。

So it looks like there's just a difference of where the focus is placed (like Elizabeth said). I can't say I quite understand it, though.
 
What's that about a 日本語の方言 ?? The one that came up through a "Yahoo Answers" type site may be total nonsense (I'm too tired to sort out at the moment) but at least in a daze makes the most sense to me. :p


英語の文でIclimbthemountainのclimbは何故他動詞なのでしょうか?themountainが目的語だというのはわかります... - Yahoo!知恵袋

英語も難しいですが、日本語もいろいろな方言があるよ うで、難しいですね。他の回答を読むと、「山を登る」 という表現が不可になる日本語の方言もあるようですが 、私がしゃべっている日本語の方言では、「そのパーティはゆっくりと山を登った」(The party climbed the mountain slowly)という表現は許されています。

英語の They climbed the mountain が頂上まで到達したことを意味するのかどうかは不明で すが、私のしゃべっている日本語の方言の場合には、頂 上への到達を強く示唆したいときは、「山に登った」を 使い、山登りの行為そのものを強調するときには、「山 を登る」と言っているように感じます。たとえば、私の 日本語方言では、屋根の場合には、「屋根に登った」: (○)、「屋根を登った」(×) です。一方、梯子の場合には、「梯子を登った」が普通 で、「梯子に登った」は、梯子の上にいたことを強調し ている表現です。
 
また、「山に登る」と「山を登る」も問題にされること があります。これは、ニ格が着点として「山」をとらえ ているのに対し、ヲ格は通過する場所としてとらえてい ると説明されます。
(9)山「?を・◯に」登った後、足が痛くなりまし た。
(10)山「◯を・?に」登っているとき、突然雨が 降ってきました。
Yeah, I agree with this. Here's good examples, I suppose.

頂上に登る 頂上を登る
崖に登る 崖を登る

頂上を登る sounds weird to me, just like one who has already reached the top of the mountain is still climbing AT there. On the other hand, 崖に登る sounds like to climb somewhere aiming to the cliff rather than to climb the cliff.

In the same sense, 屋根を登る would be acceptable when one is climbing the roof aiming to the top of the roof, as you might know, just like Rupin the third climbed the roof of the casltle of Cagliostro.:oops:
w7im34-1.jpg
 
頂上を登る sounds weird to me, just like one who has already reached the top of the mountain is still climbing AT there. On the other hand, 崖に登る sounds like to climb somewhere aiming to the cliff rather than to climb the cliff.
does it imply that if we use 富士山に登った, we are saying we climbed Mt. Fuji up till a certain point (emphasized by the に)?

sry if im repeating something, because i don't really understand this:
また、「山に登る」と「山を登る」も問題にされること があります。これは、ニ格が着点として「山」をとらえ ているのに対し、ヲ格は通過する場所としてとらえてい ると説明されます。
(9)山「?を・◯に」登った後、足が痛くなりまし た。
(10)山「◯を・?に」登っているとき、突然雨が 降ってきました。
 
It basically says that if you use に your taking 山 as being the point of arrival, and if you use を, you're saying that it was a place of passage (somewhere you passed through). From the examples it appears that に is more appropriate to show destination, or a stopping point, and を is more appropriate when you talke about something that happened while you were climbing the mountain. But it's hard to get a lot from just two examples, one for each point.

See also Toritoribe's post just above yours.
 
just to check, if i want to say "i'd had attempted to climb Mt. Fuji (but maybe i've failed to)", will this be ok: 富士山に登ろうとした
 
just to check, if i want to say "i'd had attempted to climb Mt. Fuji (but maybe i've failed to)", will this be ok: 富士山に登ろうとした

Do notice that "i'd had attempted to climb Mt. Fuji (but maybe i've failed to)" is not a proper English sentence.
 
oh sorry for the mistake, will this be alright:

if i wanted to say "I attempted to climb Mt. Fuji" will this be ok: 富士山に登ろうとした
 
oh sorry for the mistake, will this be alright:

If i wanted to say "i attempted to climb mt. Fuji" will this be ok: 富士山に登ろうとした
(実際にうまく登れたかどうかはわからないかな.... ) :?

( [登ろうと] "チャレンジした" ことを意味していて...)
 
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{登ろうと}"チャレンジした" ことを意味していて...
heys sry do you mind explaining what the line means because i can't really understand japanese that well yet
 
山に登る OK 山に下りる NG
山を登る OK 山を下りる OK

木に登る OK 木に下りる NG
木を登る NG 木を下りる OK

坂に上る NG 坂に下りる NG
坂を上る OK 坂を下りる OK
lol sorry for bumping this old thread, but is there any reason why we use 上る for 坂, but 登る for 山
 
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