筆者は友人と話... / 自分はなぜ... / も / 玲姉

eeky · 5 Jun 2011

Hello,

1. 筆者は友人と話ができて良かったと思っていますか。

My translation: "Does the author think it was good to be able to talk with his/her friend(s)?"

Is this OK? I'm not sure, for example, if the good thing is specifically the author talking with one of his/her friends, or people in general talking with friends. I'm also not sure about the grammar connecting できて and 良かった -- whether the combination means "it was good to be able to".

2. 自分はなぜいま日本語を勉強しているのか、改めて考えてみた。

My translation: "Again, I tried to think why I was now studying Japanese."

Is 自分 likely to be "I" (there is no further context)? For some reason I feel I might be missing the point of this sentence...

3. これで彼の霊も浮かばれるだろう。

Translation given: "With this his spirit will be consoled."

What does も add here? Is it just for emphasis? Or is there some specific meaning like "too" that hasn't been translated?

4. 「あ、は、はい・・・ごめん、玲姉」「コラ。幾ら親戚とはいえ、私は先輩医師よ？院内ではちゃんとケジメをつけなさい」

Translation given: "Ah, y-yes ... Sorry, Coz." "Hey! You might be my relative but here I'm your senior and a doctor. Keep things straight while you're in the hospital!"

a) Is 玲姉 someone's name? (I don't understand what "Coz" is supposed to mean... unless possibly it's short for "cousin"?)

b) How does 幾ら親戚とはいえ work? I don't see how the meaning "you might be my relative" is created.

undrentide · 5 Jun 2011

eeky said:
1. 筆者は友人と話ができて良かったと思っていますか。

My translation: "Does the author think it was good to be able to talk with his/her friend(s)?"

Is this OK? I'm not sure, for example, if the good thing is specifically the author talking with one of his/her friends, or people in general talking with friends. I'm also not sure about the grammar connecting できて and 良かった -- whether the combination means "it was good to be able to".

Whether 友人 refers to a specific friend or two or friends in general depends on the context, but without any, it usually means particular friend(s).

～て usually does not involve tense, it is decided by the following verb.
できて良かった is referring to what has already completed (he met the friend(s)).

eeky said:
2. 自分はなぜいま日本語を勉強しているのか、改めて考えてみた。

My translation: "Again, I tried to think why I was now studying Japanese."

Is 自分 likely to be "I" (there is no further context)? For some reason I feel I might be missing the point of this sentence...

てみる does have meaning "to try to do ~" but usually it simply means "to do", often "to try doing ~".
Yes, 自分 refers to oneself.
"I reflect afresh on the reason why I'm learning Japanese now"
(hoping to see the situation from a new perspective, for instance.)

eeky said:
3. これで彼の霊も浮かばれるだろう。

Translation given: "With this his spirit will be consoled."

What does も add here? Is it just for emphasis? Or is there some specific meaning like "too" that hasn't been translated?

I think it is the latter.

eeky said:
4. 「あ、は、はい・・・ごめん、玲姉」「コラ。幾ら親戚とはいえ、私は先輩医師よ？院内ではちゃんとケジメをつけなさい」

Translation given: "Ah, y-yes ... Sorry, Coz." "Hey! You might be my relative but here I'm your senior and a doctor. Keep things straight while you're in the hospital!"

a) Is 玲姉 someone's name? (I don't understand what "Coz" is supposed to mean... unless possibly it's short for "cousin"?)

I guess 玲姉 should be pronounced Rei-nei (or -nee).
玲 Rei is a name, and 姉 is sometimes used when addressing female cousin who is elder than the speaker. It is very casual and colloquial.
I have no clue why "Coz" is used here in the translation, maybe it meant to stand for "cousin" as you suggested?!

eeky said:
b) How does 幾ら親戚とはいえ work? I don't see how the meaning "you might be my relative" is created.

The boy (?) called his cousin 玲姉 which is not proper for a new doctor - maybe still an intern - to call his senior. She reprimanded him for being overly familiar.

eeky · 6 Jun 2011

Hi undrentide, thanks very much for your help.

undrentide said:
できて良かった is referring to what has already completed (he met the friend(s)).

I'm still a bit unsure about this. I parsed it like this:

良かった = it was good that...

話ができて = ... talking (was) possible [as you say, no tense inherent in ～て, but past tense implied by 良かった]

But are you saying that できて actually has the sense of the talk being completed, rather than it being possible? (I often get confused with できる. I don't know how to tell which of the various meanings applies in any given context.)

undrentide said:
The boy (?) called his cousin 玲姉 which is not proper for a new doctor - maybe still an intern - to call his senior. She reprimanded him for being overly familiar.

Could you help some more with 幾ら親戚とはいえ? Originally I couldn't make any sense of it, or even really see how to parse it, but it's just occurred to me that it might possibly break down something like:

いえ = (it's) no (good) ...
とは = if ...
親戚 = (you address me) as a relation ...
幾ら = like that / that much

Is this anywhere close?

Toritoribe · 6 Jun 2011

eeky said:
I'm not sure, for example, if the good thing is specifically the author talking with one of his/her friends, or people in general talking with friends.

As undrentide-san wrote, 友人 would refer to a specific friend. 友人と話ができるのは良いことだと is used for the latter case; "people in general talking with friends".

eeky said:
I'm still a bit unsure about this. I parsed it like this:
良かった = it was good that...
話ができて = ... talking (was) possible [as you say, no tense inherent in ～て, but past tense implied by 良かった]
But are you saying that できて actually has the sense of the talk being completed, rather than it being possible? (I often get confused with できる. I don't know how to tell which of the various meanings applies in any given context.)

The author and his/her friend actually had a coversation. S/He thinks that's good.

eeky said:
Could you help some more with 幾ら親戚とはいえ? Originally I couldn't make any sense of it, or even really see how to parse it, but it's just occurred to me that it might possibly break down something like:
いえ = (it's) no (good) ...
とは = if ...
親戚 = (you address me) as a relation ...
幾ら = like that / that much
Is this anywhere close?

いえ: 言え
と: the quotation particle
幾ら

［副］（あとに「ても」「でも」を伴うことが多い）量や程度のはなはだしいさま。どれほど。どんなに。「―捜しても見つからない」「―子供でもわかるだろう」

幾ら（いくら）の意味 - goo国語辞書

we are actually relations, but even so, you must keep things straight ...

eeky · 6 Jun 2011

Toritoribe said:
いえ: 言え
と: the quotation particle

Oops! Totally wrong there then. I'm sorry, I just noticed that とはいえ is actually listed in WWWJDIC as an expression -- with this exact sentence as an example (I got the example sentence from another website). I didn't think to look up とはいえ as a whole...

eeky · 6 Jun 2011

Toritoribe said:
The author and his/her friend actually had a coversation. S/He thinks that's good.

Does that fact that conversation happened in the past come from できて or 良かった ?

Glenn · 6 Jun 2011

From よかった. ～てよかった is sort of a set way to say "I'm glad X happened." A similar one is ～て助かった, although the focus is a little different with that one.

eeky · 6 Jun 2011

Glenn said:
From よかった. ～てよかった is sort of a set way to say "I'm glad X happened." A similar one is ～て助かった, although the focus is a little different with that one.

Thanks Glenn. That's what I originally thought, but then I got derailed by the issue of whether できて meant that the activity was completed or that the activity was possible...

Could you give me your take on the best way to express in English the meaning of できて in this sentence?

Glenn · 6 Jun 2011

"Be able to talk to friends", or to do the whole sentence, "do you think the writer was glad to have been able to talk to (his) friends?"

eeky · 6 Jun 2011

Glenn said:
"Be able to talk to friends"

Hmm. That's what I originally thought. I'm not sure where I've been going with this in this thread ... but never mind!

Glenn said:
or to do the whole sentence, "do you think the writer was glad to have been able to talk to (his) friends?"

Damn it, I got the subject of 思っています wrong. I think this has happened before.

Toritoribe · 6 Jun 2011

eeky said:
Damn it, I got the subject of 思っています wrong. I think this has happened before.

Your interpretation is correct. The subject of 思っている is 筆者.

eeky · 6 Jun 2011

Toritoribe said:
Your interpretation is correct. The subject of 思っている is 筆者.

Oh good, thanks!

Glenn · 6 Jun 2011

Whoops. Sorry about that. You know, that whole っている vs. う thing had occured to me, yet I still got it wrong...

Toritoribe · 11 Jun 2011

Yeah, if it's 筆者は友人と話ができて良かったと思いますか, the subject is the reader, i.e., "you".

eeky · 11 Jun 2011

Toritoribe said:
Yeah, if it's 筆者は友人と話ができて良かったと思いますか, the subject is the reader, i.e., "you".

I'd like to pretend I knew that, but I would be fibbing. Is there any logic behind this that might help me to remember it? At the moment, it seems to me like a completely arbitrary rule.

Toritoribe · 12 Jun 2011

The subject of ～と思います is ALWAYS the first person/speaker in a declarative sentence. Similarly, in an interrogative sentence, the subject of ～と思いますか is ALWAYS the second person, i.e., "you".
～と思っています can be used for first person's opinion when the clause preceding と expresses the speaker's will/hope(e.g. 話をしようと思っています, 話がしたいと思っています). ～と思っています also can be used when the speaker emphasizes their opinion, but, in that case, 私は usually is not omitted to make clear who the subject is. (e.g. 私は、筆者は友人と話ができて良かったと思っています。)

conclusion (the subject of 思う/思っている)

話をしよう/話がしたいと思います(I)
話ができて良かったと思います(I)
彼は話ができて良かったと思います(I)

話をしよう/話がしたいと思いますか？(you)
話ができて良かったと思いますか？(you)
彼は話ができて良かったと思いますか？(you)

話をしよう/話がしたいと思っています(I)
話ができて良かったと思っています(I)
彼は話ができて良かったと思っています(he)
私は、彼が/は話ができて良かったと思っています(I)

話をしよう/話がしたいと思っていますか？(you)
話ができて良かったと思っていますか？(you)
彼は話ができて良かったと思っていますか？(he)
あなたは、彼が/は話ができて良かったと思っていますか？(you)

(FYI, the subjects of 良かった and 思う/思っている are always the same person in the examples above.)

Glenn · 13 Jun 2011

And 〜たい・（よ）う too, right?

eeky · 13 Jun 2011

Toritoribe said:
(FYI, the subjects of 良かった and 思う/思っている are always the same person in the examples above.)

Hmm. I think I may be suffering from a basic misunderstanding here. Let me go back to the original sentence:

筆者は友人と話ができて良かったと思っていますか。

I thought this meant 話ができた、話が良かった (i.e. lit. "talking was possible", "talking was good"). Are you saying it actually means 話ができた、筆者が良かった?

Sorry if I appear confused ... I am!

Glenn · 13 Jun 2011

It's this: ～てよかった is sort of a set way to say "I'm glad X happened."

eeky · 13 Jun 2011

Thanks Glenn, sorry, my question was not very clear. I understand the set-expression meaning -- in this case that "the writer was glad" as you kindly explained earlier.

My question this time was meant to be about the literal grammatical structure of subjects and verbs. Is it grammatically true that 筆者が良かった as Toritoribe's answer seemed to imply?

Possibly I should cease worrying about this at all, and just accept the set-expression meaning.

Toritoribe · 13 Jun 2011

Oh, sorry, my answer caused confusion.:sorry: I meant the subject who felt 良かった and the subject of 思う/思っている are always the same person. When the two subjects are different, for instance, "Do you think the writer thinks it was good...", the form should be （あなたは、）筆者は/が友人と話ができて良かったと思っていると思いますか.

The subject of 良かった is （筆者が）友人と話ができたこと; "talking to his/her fried was possible".

Glenn said:
And 〜たい・（よ）う too, right?

Right.

eeky · 13 Jun 2011

Toritoribe said:
The subject of 良かった is （筆者が）友人と話ができたこと; "talking to his/her fried was possible".

Thank you very much, now it is clear.

筆者は友人と話... / 自分はなぜ... / も / 玲姉

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