栄作佐藤の墓地、どこに眠る？

Elizabeth · 6 Oct 2009

No doubt another question that falls firmly into the category of "it depends".

But I need to know here how to describe a prime minister's burial grounds in Japanese such that will come up high as relevant in an online search. In particular keyword terms and phrases for 佐藤栄作'ｓ graveside or place of interment。

（佐藤栄作元首相は）どこに葬られた？、佐藤栄作元首相の埋葬、・墓地・・・・ Zilch.

（杉並区の和田堀公園？えええ？？）

undrentide · 6 Oct 2009

As far as search by Google is concerned, I think the simpler the better.
If one uses a phrase, it will narrows the result sometimes in infavourable way.
So I would use 佐藤栄作 and 墓 only.
(Does this answer your question, Elizabeth san? )

Elizabeth · 6 Oct 2009

undrentide said:
As far as search by Google is concerned, I think the simpler the better.
If one uses a phrase, it will narrows the result sometimes in infavourable way.
So I would use 佐藤栄作 and 墓 only.
(Does this answer your question, Elizabeth san? )

Thanks ! My attempt works for American presidents in English, though ! haha

Being unfamiliar with a lot of Japanese place names, I was looking for the way to clear answer. But you're right. I will try simplifying to get more results.

Elizabeth · 12 Oct 2009

I still have to find where this is but if anyone is still interested....it IS near 井の頭、北高井戸、吉祥寺、and various other favorite city hideouts. Unbelievable ! 下高井戸の築地本願寺（つきじほんがんー寺）！

正解！

Elizabeth · 17 Oct 2009

And another from the sameTokyo guidebook of Edo era history. This question is about the naming of 承応時代 brothers (清)右衛門 from （庄）右衛門。Was it considered normal for traditional Japanese given names within a single family to be separated like this by only a single character ?

At first it seemed apparent that 右衛門 could be what the family chose to call itself until it was clarified that the surname was literally 玉川(多摩川？）. Obviously then it was a situation of 苗字帯刀 in which a last name was an adopted place name that got bestowed in recognition of great achievement and contribution to the two who gave their lives building Tamagawa-josui.

undrentide · 17 Oct 2009

Elizabeth said:
And another from the sameTokyo guidebook of Edo era history. This question is about the naming of 承応時代 brothers (清)右衛門 from （庄）右衛門。Was it considered normal for traditional Japanese given names within a single family to be separated like this by only a single character ?

At first it seemed apparent that 右衛門 could be what the family chose to call itself until it was clarified that the surname was literally 玉川(多摩川？）. Obviously then it was a situation of 苗字帯刀 in which a last name was an adopted place name that got bestowed in recognition of great achievement and contribution to the two who gave their lives building Tamagawa-josui.

Having 清右衛門（せいえもん） and 庄右衛門（しょうえもん） in a family does not seem something special or strange to me... ～右衛門 used to be one of the common appendix for male name, same as ～兵衛（～べえ）, ～之助（～のすけ）, etc.
Like ～郎 (xx rou/male) or ～子 (xx ko/female) - both rather old-fashioned today, though - it is quite common to have children with names using the same appendix in a family.

Hiroyuki Nagashima · 18 Oct 2009

日本語でOK？

「左衛門」「右衛門」の由来は、「衛門府（えもんふ）」らしいです。

「衛門府（えもんふ）」とは、大昔の武官が務める役所のことで
その役職からきたようです。

ここを参照してください。

現在も、代々続く陶芸家や歌舞伎役者などは「左衛門」「右衛門」を世代交代ごとに

襲名（しゅうめい）しています。

Elizabeth · 20 Oct 2009

undrentide said:
Having 清右衛門（せいえもん） and 庄右衛門（しょうえもん） in a family does not seem something special or strange to me... ～右衛門 used to be one of the common appendix for male name, same as ～兵衛（～べえ）, ～之助（～のすけ）, etc.
Like ～郎 (xx rou/male) or ～子 (xx ko/female) - both rather old-fashioned today, though - it is quite common to have children with names using the same appendix in a family.

Oh, and べ、へえ、ぺ as varients on べえ。And ～～すけ？ But nothing as rife as ろう、こ
-- perhaps even archaic in Edo times !

Elizabeth · 20 Oct 2009

Hiroyuki Nagashima said:
日本語でOK？
「左衛門」「右衛門」の由来は、「衛門府（えもんふ）」らしいです。
「衛門府（えもんふ）」とは、大昔の武官が務める役所のことで
その役職からきたようです。
ここを参照してください。
現在も、代々続く陶芸家や歌舞伎役者などは「左衛門」「右衛門」を世代交代ごとに
襲名（しゅうめい）しています。

ありがとうございます、長島さん！とても面白いですね。歴史に大変興味があるので、歴史的理由などについては、まだまだ読んでいます。

でも、すくなくとも、黙字の点からは、ローマ字で、「うえもん」じゃなくて、「えもん」になるのに気づきました。

栄作佐藤の墓地、どこに眠る？

Elizabeth

先輩

undrentide

Japa'n vagyok

Elizabeth

先輩

Elizabeth

先輩

Elizabeth

先輩

undrentide

Japa'n vagyok

Hiroyuki Nagashima

TAN

Elizabeth

先輩

Elizabeth

先輩

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