実践的な防衛術の高度な技術 / とされる / みせます

E

eeky

先輩

8 Jun 2010

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• 24 Dec 2015

• #1

Hi,

1. 実践的な防衛術の高度な技術も必要です

How is the noun phrase parsed? Is it:

[実践的な防衛術] の [高度な技術]

?

2. 「毎晩手ずから教えることになろうとも、あなたが必要とされる成績を絶対に取れるようにしてみせます」

a) What is とされる doing here? (I understand what this part must mean, but not the grammar that creates the meaning.)

b) By みせます, does the speaker mean something like "I'll show you!", i.e. dispelling any doubt that they will actually do what they say?

 

lanthas

　

27 Apr 2014

940

243

• 24 Dec 2015

• #2

2. a) あなたが必要とする成績 (the grades that you hold as required [for me to gain your approval/pass the test/...]) put in passive for politeness.
b) See the third item in this previous topic

 

Last edited: 24 Dec 2015

E

eeky

先輩

8 Jun 2010

2,431

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• 25 Dec 2015

• Thread starter
• #3

lanthas said:

2. a) あなたが必要とする成績 (the grades that you hold as required [for me to gain your approval/pass the test/...]) put in passive for politeness.

Click to expand...

Thanks. I forgot about the "passive polite" thing, though I have encountered it before. Which of the definitions of とする at WWWJDIC: Word Search would you say best fits the meaning here?

 

lanthas

　

27 Apr 2014

940

243

• 25 Dec 2015

• #4

The 6th I'd say. "The grades which you have decided/think of as being necessary"

 

Toritoribe

松葉解禁

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Fifteen-year veteran

22 Feb 2008

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4,926

• 25 Dec 2015

• #5

1)
[実践的な] [防衛術の高度な技術] is also possible, the meaning is almost the same, though.

2)
Grammatically, the interpretation "polite form" is indeed possible, but actually it's said to Harry by McGonagall, i.e. from a teacher to her student, so "polite" is hardly used. In addition, I would use して差し上げます at the end of the sentece instead of してみせます to unify the level of politeness.
It's あなたが [必要とされる成績を] 絶対に取れるようにしてみせます（＝闇祓いになるのに必要とされる成績をあなたが絶対に取れるようにしてみせます）, thus, あなたが indicates the subject of 取れる, not 必要とされる, and される is passive.
This is exactly an example of "why context is so important", as in the linked thread.

 

E

eeky

先輩

8 Jun 2010

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22

• 25 Dec 2015

• Thread starter
• #6

Toritoribe said:

される is passive.

Click to expand...

Thanks; does される have any definite agent?

Edit: actually, it occurred to me that, in the story, the grades are stipulated by the Ministry of Magic, so I suppose that would be the agent, yes?

 

Last edited: 25 Dec 2015

Toritoribe

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• 26 Dec 2015

• #7

Yes, that's right. It's 闇祓いになるのに魔法省が必要とする/している成績.