勉強文

[OoTmaster]

Wallet is 財布, and かさ is umbrella or parasol.

財布は新しいけど、中のお金は新札です。

The original sentence in the English is "My wallet is old, but it has new money in it." but your sentence says that the wallet is new. Was this an oversight on your part or am I not understanding something here?

 

[Toritoribe]

Ooops! That's my fault. Sorry. It should be 財布は古いけど、中のお金は新札です。, of course.

 

[diligentcircle]

Here's something a bit different. I decided to try out a game last night where, in summary, I choose three random kanji and try to use them all in one sentence, then continue to do so until I've cobbled together a coherent, if a bit disjointed and nonsensical, story. Can someone let me know of any grammar errors here? If experience tells me anything, I probably messed up a ton.

Just for the sake of clarity, all kanji marked in bold are kanji I was explicitly trying to use. Just to explain some of the weird things said in it.

あの家は暗い日たいてい怒りますけど、自分の中の人を殺せないですね。でも、怒っている時その人を必ず助けないです。例えば、先週は毎日暗かったですから、入るのが無理でした。子どもは学校から帰る期間が長かったですね。無量日焼けを得ましたよ。他の家はそんなひどいじゃないですから、ちょっと辞めるべきでしょうね！昨今は暗いとは本当ですけど、私もやみの終わりがほしいですよ。

What I expect this to mean:

That house often gets angry when it's dark, but cannot kill the people inside of it. However, when it gets mad, it absolutely refuses to help them. For example, last week, it was dark every day, so entering the house was impossible. The time it took for the kids to get back from school was so long that it caused them to get uncountable sunburns. Other houses aren't this horrible, so I think this one ought to let up a little! It's true that it's been dark these days, but I, too, want an end to the darkness.

 

[Mike Cash]

1. Lose all the よs and ねs.

2. How are they getting sunburned in the dark?

3. 得る sounds like they wanted sunburns.

 

[AmerikaJin5]

1. Lose all the よs and ねs.

Especially this. It's best to not use them at first, until you get a feel for them from native speakers.

他の家はそんなひどいじゃないですから、ちょっと辞めるべきでしょうね！

Note that ひどい is an い -adj. so it should be conjugated properly.
Also, even though I understand your intended phrase in English by "quit", it doesn't necessarily translate the same in Japanese. From the bold font I guess you're trying to use 辞, but 辞めるべき means "should quit" in a stern way, and is often used toward one's own actions (e.g. "I'd better quit cheating on the weekly quizzes in class, or else I'll get caught and punished").
Maybe an alternative would be something like 普通に(他の)家というものはそんなにひどくないし、あの家に入るのを辞めておいた方がいいでしょう。

子どもは学校から帰る期間が長かったですね。無量日焼けを得ましたよ。

I would say something more like 子どもは学校からの帰る時間が長かったので、日焼けしてしまいました。
I can't think of how you'd use 得る in this, but it doesn't work with the sunburn sentence you wrote (it means "to get/obtain", as in being bestowed with super-hero powers, or obtaining liquor after distillation, etc.).

 

[diligentcircle]

Lose all the よs and ねs.

I guess I did get quite a bit carried away there...

But to clarify, do you mean that I shouldn't have been using those at all in this context, or just that I shouldn't have been using them so liberally?

How are they getting sunburned in the dark?

Honestly, I didn't even think about that. So the retconned answer is: supernatural, invisible black lights.

得る sounds like they wanted sunburns.

Oh! That's good to know. Thanks!

 

[Mike Cash]

But to clarify, do you mean that I shouldn't have been using those at all in this context, or just that I shouldn't have been using them so liberally?

Yes.

 

[diligentcircle]

Note that ひどい is an い -adj. so it should be conjugated properly.

Whoops. Bad habits die hard, I suppose...

Also, even though I understand your intended phrase in English by "quit", it doesn't necessarily translate the same in Japanese. From the bold font I guess you're trying to use 辞, but 辞めるべき means "should quit" in a stern way, and is often used toward one's own actions (e.g. "I'd better quit cheating on the weekly quizzes in class, or else I'll get caught and punished").

I don't quite understand where the disconnect is. So is it an incorrect usage, or an incorrect interpretation of what it means?

 

[Majestic]

Regarding 辞める

There was an earlier post (I think of yours) where 辞める was also used, when the preferred kanji would have been 止める or simply やめる.
辞める means quitting/leaving/retiring from a position. Its associated with employment or a professional status or position of some sort.
止める is used for ending or terminating or suspending some action.
However, there is also another reading for this, which is とめる (tomeru), which is the transitive verb for to stop.
My sense is that some writers will simply write やめる when they wish to express the idea that some action is being ended or suspended, rather than risk the split-second of uncertainty which arises from using 止める.
辞める、止めるのどちらなのかが分かりません。スポーツで競技その... - Yahoo!知恵袋

 

[AmerikaJin5]

There was an earlier post (I think of yours) where 辞める was also used, when the preferred kanji would have been 止める or simply やめる.
...
My sense is that some writers will simply write やめる when they wish to express the idea that some action is being ended or suspended, rather than risk the split-second of uncertainty which arises from using 止める.

Ah yes, definitely. I never use the kanji and should've realized that and just written in hiragana in my example sentence. I need more review, too!

I don't quite understand where the disconnect is. So is it an incorrect usage, or an incorrect interpretation of what it means?

I think the Japanese is incorrect usage, in that it doesn't make sense here. Have you studied 〜た方がいい（ほうがいい）and 〜べき to express "should do ~" yet? It's easy to see the meanings in a dictionary etc. and mistakenly think they can be used interchangeably. The sentence you wrote in English doesn't really come through in the Japanese translation (I'm assuming you wrote everything in English first).

 

[Majestic]

Just to clarify, I was speaking to JuliMaruchan about 辞める. I thought I saw this same mistake in a very recent post. Somebody else corrected it... I'll have to dig around to find it.

 

[Kraise]

Just to clarify, I was speaking to JuliMaruchan about 辞める. I thought I saw this same mistake in a very recent post. Somebody else corrected it... I'll have to dig around to find it.

I believe it was her original post which I revised.

she said "殺すこと辞めなさい"
I rewrote that as 殺すこと"を"止めなさい, and completely forgot about explaining the reason I changed the kanji as well

thanks for the explanation Majesticさん

 

[diligentcircle]

You gotta love the shortcomings of a dictionary. Thanks for the explanation!

Have you studied 〜た方がいい（ほうがいい）and 〜べき to express "should do ~" yet? It's easy to see the meanings in a dictionary etc. and mistakenly think they can be used interchangeably.

No. It's one of those things I just looked up on the Internet months ago, and my source ended up being a Yahoo Answers post (in English).

Since my usage is incorrect, I'm just going to shelve this one for now until I get to it in a textbook.

The sentence you wrote in English doesn't really come through in the Japanese translation (I'm assuming you wrote everything in English first).

No, the Japanese was first. One sentence at a time, I was picking three random kanji and challenging myself to write sentences with as many of those kanji as possible. So I'm combining kanji recognition and writing practice with grammar practice in the format of a game.

 

[Toritoribe]

家 means house as a construction, not residents, in your sentence, so I initially thought you were talking about a horror story like a Japanese movie ハウス.
I recommend making shorter and more common sentences, e.g. 暗くなってから家に帰ったので、親に怒られた。 I was scolded by my parents for coming home after dark.

 

[diligentcircle]

家 means house as a construction, not residents, in your sentence, so I initially thought you were talking about a horror story like a Japanese movie ハウス.

No, you were right. That's exactly what I meant. The house is alive.

I recommend making shorter and more common sentences, e.g. 暗くなってから家に帰ったので、親に怒られた。 I was scolded by my parents for coming home after dark.

Half of that sentence is beyond by comprehension, if you can believe it, but the reason I went with a living house is to me, writing about nonsensical things like that is more engaging than just writing realistic sentences.

 

[Mike Cash]

Half of that sentence is beyond by comprehension,

Then you need to tell us which half so we can help you with it. It was written in a very simple style with very simple grammar that you should have had down years ago.

I'm guessing you're not familiar with passive voice for verbs?

 

[diligentcircle]

Then you need to tell us which half so we can help you with it. It was written in a very simple style with very simple grammar that you should have had down years ago.

True, I should have.

I just didn't want to trouble you guys with stuff I haven't gotten to in a textbook yet, since I would be asking about literally everything and probably not remembering any of it anyway. But I can ask questions more liberally if that would be preferable.

Yes, I'm unfamiliar with passive voice. Or rather, I know how to conjugate it, but haven't properly learned how to use it, and it never would have occurred to me to use the passive voice on 怒る to mean "scolded by my parents". The others I didn't know were the word 親 (for "parents"; easy to look up and also easy to remember since it's the start of 親父 which I've heard a lot), the use of "から" (I only learned から as "because", though I can see the logic behind the way it's used there), and ので (I assume the て form of のだ?).

 

[Toritoribe]

the use of "から" (I only learned から as "because", though I can see the logic behind the way it's used there)

May I ask your idea regarding this から?

ので (I assume the て form of のだ?)

ので means "because" similar to から. の and で are from a nominalizer and the particle for cause/reason, respectively.

 

[Mike Cash]

Also, do you know the difference between なってから and なったから ?

I ask because it is something that it is something that beginning learners tend not to notice at all, even though semantically the difference is important.

 

[diligentcircle]

May I ask your idea regarding this から?

What I assume it means, you mean? What it looks like to me is that it means something like "after". But I never would have guessed that without the English translation, and I'm not confident in this guess at any rate.

Also, do you know the difference between なってから and なったから ?

No. More specifically, I only know about the latter at all. I never learned to use から with the て form.

 

[Toritoribe]

That's exactly the key of the difference in meaning.

−から
((接続助詞))

1 〔原因・動機・理由を示す〕
彼は若いからそれが理解できないのだ
He can't understand it because he is too young.

健康が優れないから家にいた
Since [As] I wasn't well, I stayed at home.

あの人は嫌いだから彼のパーティーには行かない
I don't like him, and so I'm not going to his party.

もう遅いから帰ろう
It's late. Let's go home.

2 〔「…してから」の形で，時間の起点を示す〕
生まれてからずっとここに住んでいる
I have lived here ever since I was born.

食事を済ませてから出掛けた
After eating, we went out.

家に帰ってからが大変だった
It was after he got home that the trouble started.

後半戦になってからが，彼の腕の見せどころだった
「It was in [It wasn't until] the second half that he really started to show his stuff.
からの英語・英訳 - goo辞書 英和和英

 

[diligentcircle]

So here's another one of those I did. This one was yesterday. Like before, I was trying to use particular, randomly chosen kanji. I didn't bother marking exactly what kanji I was trying to use this time, but it's not terribly important anyway.

この低い馬は尾がないのでよく転びます。だから、お母さんの果物を持ちません。変な形の羊もよく転びますけど、「だめ」の意味が分かりません。多く持つから、家の所はゴミがたくさんあります。だからあたしたちは必ずゴミを接していますね。

What I think this means:

This short horse falls a lot because he doesn't have a tail. This is why he doesn't carry [his] mother's fruit. The sheep with a weird shape also falls a lot, but he doesn't know the meaning of "だめ". Since [the sheep] often carries [the fruit], the place where their house is has a lot of garbage. This is why we are invariably touching garbage right now.

 

[Mike Cash]

I would appreciate it if you could force yourself to write something normal instead of something absurd.

 

[diligentcircle]

Here's a few normal sentences ad-hoc, if you'd rather critique that:

ねえ、アリスさん、時は何ですか。あたし4時半ごろでなければいけないんですね。

あたしにはスポーツがちょっとつまらないですわ。ちがうゲームがどうですか。

漢字を２００時ぐらいだけ知っています。

ナタリーさんは第十回におそいので首だかもしれないね。

 

[Mike Cash]

ねえ、アリスさん、時は何ですか。あたし4時半ごろでなければいけないんですね。

時は何ですか means "What is time?"

Do you mean でなければ as the copula or as the the verb 出る?

あたしにはスポーツがちょっとつまらないですわ。ちがうゲームがどうですか。

Why do you have には instead of just は?

I think は would be better than が in the last sentence.

漢字を２００時ぐらいだけ知っています。

Probably は instead of を.

字 not 時

You don't need both ぐらい and だけ.

Is the sentence meant to convey the idea that the speaker thinks 200 is a little? A lot?

ナタリーさんは第十回におそいので首だかもしれないね。

Look up the ordinal suffix 〜目 and the uses of the particle も.

Use 第 for things you're numbering, not things you're counting.

おくれる or 遅刻(する) not おそい

You don't need the だ and I can't tell you why.