凡人の

eeky · 25 May 2015

Hi,

「たぶんあの凡人の、穢れた血の、そしてマグルの味方、アルバス・ダンブルドアにか？」

Is 凡人の味方 the only possible interpretation, or could 凡人の also be interpreted as modifying アルバス・ダンブルドア?

Toritoribe · 25 May 2015

凡人の, 穢れた血の and マグルの味方 all modify アルバス・ダンブルドア because of の and そして. If that's あの凡人と、穢れた血と、そしてマグルの味方, 凡人, 穢れた血 and マグル modify 味方. Or, if that's あの凡人の、穢れた血のマグルの味方, あの凡人の can modify マグル. In this case, あの凡人の、穢れた血のマグル refers to a specific person/muggle.

eeky · 25 May 2015

Toritoribe said:
凡人の, 穢れた血の and マグルの味方 all modify アルバス・ダンブルドア

Thanks Tortitoribe. Just to be absolutely clear, do you mean that the speaker is calling Dumbedore a "凡人" and a "穢れた血"? (If so, it is a mistranslation in the book. Actully he is a friend/ally of those types.)

Toritoribe · 25 May 2015

Yes, that's my interpretation. 穢れた血の is also the key. Unlike 凡人 and マグル, 穢れた血 is hardly used as a common noun, unless it's clear from the context that this word refers to, for instance, a specific family/tribe. I.e., if it's あの凡人の、そしてマグルの味方, 凡人の modifies 味方.
Or, 凡人, 穢れた血 and マグル refer to specific persons, maybe?

eeky · 25 May 2015

凡人 and 穢れた血 refer to general categories of person. 穢れた血 has a special meaning in the story; it is a derogatory term for those people who have mixed wizarding and Muggle ancestry ("Muggle" = ordinary non-wizard human).

Toritoribe · 25 May 2015

I see. Then 凡人の, 穢れた血の and マグルの modify 味方.

eeky · 26 May 2015

OK, so, to summarise, the interpretation hinges on whether 穢れた血の味方 is an expected combination, which in turn depends on the meaning of 穢れた血 within the context, right?

Toritoribe · 26 May 2015

Exactly.

Majestic · 26 May 2015

Are you sure it would be a mistranslation of the book? It seems that the commas, the repetition of the ～の, and finally the addition of そして in the last phrase, all are used to describe (unflatteringly, insultingly, mockingly) Dumbledore.
That ordinary, half-blood, muggle-loving Albus Dumbledore

Note: Albus Dumbledore is a half-blood, right?
Having those adjectives describe ally/partner/friend feels a bit weak to me.
Albus Dumbledore: that friend of the ordinary, the half-blooded, and the muggles.

although both are plausible and grammatically correct. I haven't read the original so I don't know what the speaker's intention is. Anyway, It reminds me of the famous line in Wizard of Oz:
You clinking, clanking, clattering collection of caliginous junk

eeky · 26 May 2015

Majestic said:
Having those adjectives describe ally/partner/friend feels a bit weak to me.
Albus Dumbledore: that friend of the ordinary, the half-blooded, and the muggles.

However, this is indeed the meaning in the original English (exact text is "that champion of commoners, of Mudbloods and Muggles").

Majestic · 26 May 2015

Ahh, well, that makes all the difference.

Toritoribe · 26 May 2015

Majestic said:
Are you sure it would be a mistranslation of the book? It seems that the commas, the repetition of the ～の, and finally the addition of そして in the last phrase, all are used to describe (unflatteringly, insultingly, mockingly) Dumbledore.
That ordinary, half-blood, muggle-loving Albus Dumbledore

Note: Albus Dumbledore is a half-blood, right?
Having those adjectives describe ally/partner/friend feels a bit weak to me.
Albus Dumbledore: that friend of the ordinary, the half-blooded, and the muggles.

although both are plausible and grammatically correct. I haven't read the original so I don't know what the speaker's intention is. Anyway, It reminds me of the famous line in Wizard of Oz:
You clinking, clanking, clattering collection of caliginous junk

That's my initial interpretation, as I wrote in my previous post. If Dumbledore is a 穢れた血, that interpretation is possible. In either way, the readers know the context accurately, so they would never misinterpret the meaning of this sentence anyway.

凡人の

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