人生そのもの / 説明して / でなければいけません / 後 / 持てない

Hi,


1. それでも理解が得られなかったら・・・。それは、あな たの生き方、人生そのもので証明するしかありません。

I believe the first sentence means "If, even then, you cannot get (your parents) to appreciate (why you want to get married)...".

a) Is 得られなかったら negative potential conditional, with が used to mark what in English would be the object (i.e. 理解), according to the usual pattern we see in potential forms such as 日本語が読めます?

b) My attempts at translating the second sentence result in gibberish like "You can only verify your lifestyle through life itself". What does it mean?


2. This is part of the instructions for a roleplay conversation practice exercise.

あなたは結婚したい人がいますが、親に反対されていま す（結婚にはまだ早い、性格が合っていない、相手の仕 事が安定していない等）。でも、あなたは両親を上手に 説明して結婚したいと思っています。友達のBさんに助あ ｾを求めてください。

I get: "You want to get married, but your parents object (it's too soon to get married, your characters don't match, your partner's job is not secure, etc.). ... ??? ... Ask your friend B for advice."

I am having problems with the sentence in the middle. Could it mean "But, you want to skillfully explain to your parents, (and thereby get their permission to) get married."? Does the ～たい part apply to both 説明する and 結婚する? Also, why is it 両親を上手に説明して? Can this mean "explain to your parents"?


3. 妻が仕事を続けていくためには、夫はどんな人でなけれ ばいけませんか。

I gather the first part means "In order for the wife to continue working, ..." but I am stuck on the second part, especially でなければいけません. I wondered if it derived from である or 出る, but neither makes much sense to me in the context. I'm trying to make it mean "what sort of person must the husband be?", but without success.

4. ... 夕食の準備から後かたづけ ...

I assume this is something about clearing up after preparing dinner, but I do not exactly understand how 後 fits. Is 後かたづけ（る） a set phrase perhaps?


5. 結婚に希望持てない２４歳OL

What does 持てない mean here?

1) a)
Exactly.

b)
You missed to interprit the function of で.

You can only verify it by your lifestyle and/or life itself.

2)
早い means early, i.e., young here.

Isn't it a typo of 説得?

3)
Don't you forget なければいけない(/なければならない/なくてはいけない/なくてはならない)? It's just the polite form of it.

4)
Yes, 後片付け/後かたづけ is a set phrase, meaning "cleanup", and often used as "cleanup after meals(e.g. washing dishes)".

から seems to be used "listing examples".

5)
the negative potential of 持つ

Hi Toritoribe, thanks for your help as always.

1b) I translated で as "through" (roughly the same as "by" in this context). The main thing I failed to realise, if I'm understanding you correctly, is that 生き方 and 人生そのもの are both governed by で. This comma-separated pattern, with no や or と, often throws me because it has no parallel in English.

Can you give any more help with the sense in which "verify" is used here? In English, the word does not make total sense to me in this context.

2) Darn it, you're right, it's 説得 (and those characters do not even look similar!). But what is the relationship between 説得して and 結婚したい? In English, given "you (want to) persuade your parents" and "you want to get married", how would you connect those two thoughts? And does "want to" govern them both, or just the 結婚 part?

3) I am familiar with the pattern なければいけません, as well as the other variants you mention. What I am not sure about in this case is which verb it is applied to, or what that verb means in the context of the whole sentence. However, it has occurred to me that, with で, it could simply be the polite "must" form of 夫はどんな人だ. Is that correct?

4) So is から showing that 夕食の準備 is just one example of things to be cleaned up?

5) She cannot hold (=have) any hope of getting married? I was put off this because it is not completely right in English given the rest of the context, but if that is the literal sense of the Japanese then I think I can make the necessary adjustment.

1. My understanding is that it's showing them by the way you live your life that you made the right decision by getting married.

2. "You're thinking you want to get married having convinced your parents (that it's right for you)." That's how I understand it.

3. Yes. でなければいけない is pretty much the same as ではなければいけない.

4. There isn't a まで after 後かたづけ? It seems like it's saying "from preparing dinner up through clearing up afterwards," although I suppose it could mean cleaning up after you made the meal, as opposed to after you've eaten, but maybe that's more about one's personal habits.

5. I take the use of the negative potential here as something like "no hope," i.e., a more emphatic version than 持たない would be, but I could be wrong about that.

1)
It might be more appropriate to interprit "、" as apposition; your lifestyle, i.e., your life itself.

4)
It would be 夕食の準備 and 後かたづけ. Those seem to be two different examples. What is the whole sentence, BTW?


Glenn-san, ではなければいけない is not used. It must be じゃなければいけない.;-)

It sounds like this person has possibly been living at home too long and hasn't developed the maturity and skills needed for living on her own.

(Kanojo wa shinmoto ni nagakuisugite, otona toshiteno enjukusei, hitoride yatteikutame no sube/shudan mi ni tsukanai hito no you desune.)


結婚に希望持てない２４歳OL Is this from the perspective of the speaker who has been left feeling angry and resentful and can't seem to settle her own feelings and thoughts ?

Toritoribe said:

4)
It would be 夕食の準備 and 後かたづけ. Those seem to be two different examples. What is the whole sentence, BTW?

Click to expand...

仕事で疲れていても、夕食の準備から後かたづけ、彼の弁当の下ごしらえもすべ て私。

I think I get it now... she's talking about having to do everything from preparing dinner to cleaning up, etc. I guess まで is omitted and implied.

Elizabeth said:

結婚に希望持てない２４歳OL Is this from the perspective of the speaker who has been left feeling angry and resentful and can't seem to settle her own feelings and thoughts ?

Click to expand...

２４歳OL is complaining that her boyfriend is lazy and doesn't help with any of the household chores. She is worried that this might be a recipe for problems if she marries him. So, in English, it does not really seem that she has "no hope" of marrying, in the usual sense of "no hope".

Note that (4) is not about the same person as (1) and (2).

Toritoribe said:

Glenn-san, ではなければいけない is not used. It must be じゃなければいけない.;-)

Click to expand...

Really? Wow. I never would have guessed that.

4)
Yes, but まで is put after 下ごしらえ, not 後かたづけ. も acts the same role in the example sentence. Again, 夕食の準備から後かたづけ expresses not a sequence of actions, but two different examples. You can also say 夕食の準備から彼の弁当の下ごしらえ、後かたづけも/まですべて私.

5)
She can't find any hope in her prospective married life.