の and other questions

[Elizabeth]

One of the reasons I suspect for it having this slightly feminine feel could be because the sentence has been made indirect by the use of の. So when you ask a question that uses の, the の itself is the question which in itself "contains" the more direct sounding words (i.e. the actual question itself).

So walk up to a guy on the street and say:
すみません、郵便局を探しているんですけど

What you're really saying is "excuse me, the reason I'm here, the reason that I stopped you on the street, the reason you're looking at me right now, the reason for our current shared existence is that I'm looking for the post office, and (I want you to help me)"

This reasoning can be applied anytime you see one of these の's.

And just to give some boundaries to this explanation, when wouldn't you see it ? When it is grammatically correct to say 探しているですけど perhaps ?

 

[nekocat]

As undrentide-san explained in the cited thread and was discussed above, の as a question ending particle is very often tacked on as a slightly feminine softener. Reading in an emotive emphasis depends on the situation. Could be asked out of surprise, curiousity, in a slightly suspicious, demanding etc tone but that isn't something at all inherent in the particle or grammar itself.


"すいてる[の[か]]"

I disagree with the red part of your statement.
It's 体言止め that gives such various meanings. In addition to some example sentences that I posted previously, take a look at the following examples of 教師用法 (something teachers or parents would say to their students/children).

姿勢を正す！
姿勢を正すの！ (Speaker is a women)
あくびをしない！
あくびをしないの！(Speaker is a women)​

By ending the sentence by 体言止め you could make the sentence a command.

You can find the similar grammar in other languages, too.

In English, by saying a noun in a strong tone, you can make a command. In order to make a command, you make a verb a bare infinitive. This could be regarded as "a nominalized verb."

Silence!
Hold your tongue!​

 

[The7thSamurai]

And just to give some boundaries to this explanation, when wouldn't you see it ? When it is grammatically correct to say 探しているですけど perhaps ?

探しているですけど I guess is simply stating that you're looking for the post office. There's no explaining or giving an excuse. Just a plain fact. I couldn't tell you when it's grammatically correct to use, however, Jay Rubin in his book states that Japanese people are always constantly explaining themselves and their actions, far more than we do in English, and nominalising a sentence with の is one way they do this. Overall it gives an indirect feeling thus leaving the other person to "guess" what the speakers true intention is.

EDIT: the above should be 探しているけど, not 探しているですけど

 

[nekocat]

No, it's simply wrong to say "探しているですけど."

Noun です
Adjective です
Verb の です​

 

[Elizabeth]

探しているですけど I guess is simply stating that you're looking for the post office. There's no explaining or giving an excuse. Just a plain fact. I couldn't tell you when it's grammatically correct to use

The answer is it's never grammatical to connect the infinitive /indicative/dictionary or past form of the verb directly to desu without an intervening の、ん、もの、etc. Sorry it's too early in the morning to come up with a complete list.


違いは何ですか

 

[The7thSamurai]

No, it's simply wrong to say "探しているですけど."
Noun です
Adjective です
Verb の です

Ah yeah you're right. I didn't consider the ている + です part. What I meant was 探しているけど stating the plain fact:

彼はかぎを探しているけど、見つけられないだろう

 

[nekocat]

Ah yeah you're right. I didn't consider the ている + です part. What I meant was 探しているけど stating the plain fact:

彼はかぎを探しているけど、見つけられないだろう

Ah, OK. It would be good for other learners to edit your post.


You'll seldom (or never) hear the sentence without の (or ん) when asking for something politely.
If you give a direction to your colleagues or subordinates, you could use the sentences without の (or ん).

 

[The7thSamurai]

Ah, OK. It would be good for other learners to edit your post.

Done. I've left the original mistake but put a note at the bottom. Did this because Elizabeth's post contained the weird Japanese too and of course I can't edit hers.

 

[Elizabeth]

Ah, OK. It would be good for other learners to edit your post.
You'll seldom (or never) hear the sentence without 窶堙 (or 窶堙ｱ) when asking for something politely.

Are you referring here only to the example Bucko-san gave earlier
すみません、郵便局を探しているのですけど ?

I can think of many constructions to ask permission or as a request for something that don't use です and hence an の （ん I wouldn't use in a polite context although it may have a stronger 'explanatory' overtone overall than の）。

 

[The7thSamurai]

Are you referring here only to the example Bucko-san gave earlier
すみません、郵便局を探しているのですけど ?

I can think of many constructions to ask permission or as a request for something that don't use です and hence an の （ん I wouldn't use in a polite context although it may have a stronger 'explanatory' overtone overall than の）。

Elizabethさん、例文を書いていただけませんか。

 

[Elizabeth]

Elizabethさん、例文を書いていただけませんか。

いま、Bucko-sanが日本語を誰かに教えるのですか？
とても役に立つ説明(例）を挙げるんですよね。。。

 

[nekocat]

1 すみません、郵便局を探しているけど [This is not polite]
2 すみません、郵便局を探していますけど [This is polite]
3 すみません、郵便局を探しているんですけど [This is polite and much more heard than 2]​

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