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Question と+の and みたが?? What am I missing here?

烏天狗

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Hello all.
I'm quite new here and in-fact, just posted in the "introduction" area, so please forgive my request for assistance so soon...however that's partially why I'm here, to pick the brains of those more skilled than myself.

I've learned in the past that many people have increased their skills in reading and understanding Japanese by reading and translating material that interests them. Well, I have finally started this process, and as difficult as it is, it is also highly interesting and I'm learning a great deal. However, as you might suspect, I'm running into some gaps in my knowledge that, try as I might, I can't seem to fill. And, before you ask, I have indeed consulted a dictionary in regards to what I am about to ask, with not much luck.

So, first some context: I'm currently translating a manga, Rurouni Kenshi Vol. 23, that I managed to find at a local used book store. The particular sentence I'm looking at is as follows:

Saito Hajime says: 雪代縁との関わりを問い質しに来てはみたが

I've translated most of this sentence and also compared it to the "official translation" by Viz. Saito is saying here " I've come to interrogate/question you on your connection to Yukishiro Enishi". (He is addressing a group of 3 people).

However, when dissecting the sentence, there are a few things (which are likely grammar points) that I am not clear on.

From my understanding of と+の, as seen above, the と particle is further restricted or changed by the の particle. How does との work in this case specifically?

Finally, im quite perplexed by the はみたが at the end of this sentence. Id assume は is indeed a particle, but what about みたが? Based on my research が can be added to a sentence to soften a statement, but if that is the case then what is the みた?
Is it the "ta" form of みる? I've also seen it potentially meaning "together with". So needles to say I'm confused.

Any help you can provided with be quite edifying and appreciated!

Thank you!

烏天狗
 
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雪代縁との関わり has the same meaning as 結城縁と関わる, except for having been changed to a noun. If you connected to nouns with と, you would expect the exhaustive-listing meaning of と, which is not what this is. The と indicates the relationship to 関わり while the の grammatically links the nouns 雪代縁 and 関わり.

You could instead say 雪代縁と関わることを問い質しにきてはみたが with much the same meaning, but stiffer sounding.

The end is the ~てみる grammar combined with an emphatic は.

I'm not sure what the current situation is when the sentence is spoken. Knowing the context might help, but in any case, the emphasis seems to be implying something more than the flat statement. (Maybe he's already seen the interactions of 雪代縁 and the listeners?)

が like this is an incomplete sentence with が as a 'but' with the following part ommited. 「が」might be just 'softening' (i.e., implying 「よろしいですか」or the like), but depending on the situation it might be implying some other particular omitted phrase.

As far as the official translation, I would not rely on it as a learning resource. It will have been written to flow naturally, not to adhere closely to the literal meaning and grammar. Some sections will even be rewritten, especially in the case of untranslateable puns and difficult to understand cultural references.
 
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Toritoribe

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Probably an omission of the second person pronoun would confuse you. お前たちと雪代縁との関わり or お前たちの、雪代縁との関わり makes more sense, maybe? In fact, the omitted part is supplied in the given translation "your connection to Yukishiro Enishi".
 

烏天狗

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I appreciate both of your replies. I feel like I have more of an understanding of what I was missing. About the てみる ending that's followed by が; in this case the speaker trails off and completes his sentence in a separate speech bubble. I should have made that more clear, my apologies.

For further clarification, what purpose does みる serve in this sentence? It doesn't seem to refer to "seeing or observing" anything. Unless, its something like "Ive come to question you and see about your connection with Yukishiro Enishi"?
 
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~てみる is a specific grammar meaning "to try" (in the sense of "try it and see what happens", not in the sense of "try to do something that may or may not be possible").

There should be a section on it in Genki, but in any case, there's this:


"Ive come to question you and see about your connection with Yukishiro Enishi"
That kind of use of 'see' is very similar to this use of 「みる」, yes, although I think it is probably closer to "I came to see about questioning you on your connection to Yukishiro Enishi". The difference is not large, anyway.

Without knowing the exact situation or how the sentence concludes, I can't really say if that's exactly right. If the sentence doesn't end at が, then the rest of the sentence could shade the meaning very differently, and also probably contains the information that explains what the は is doing in the middle of the ~てみる.
 

烏天狗

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~てみる is a specific grammar meaning "to try" (in the sense of "try it and see what happens", not in the sense of "try to do something that may or may not be possible").

There should be a section on it in Genki, but in any case, there's this:



That kind of use of 'see' is very similar to this use of 「みる」, yes, although I think it is probably closer to "I came to see about questioning you on your connection to Yukishiro Enishi". The difference is not large, anyway.

Without knowing the exact situation or how the sentence concludes, I can't really say if that's exactly right. If the sentence doesn't end at が, then the rest of the sentence could shade the meaning very differently, and also probably contains the information that explains what the は is doing in the middle of the ~てみる.

This has been super helpful. Clearly I need to brush up on some of my grammar points. Anyway, thank you for taking the time to explain this to me, its much appreciated!

どうもありがとうございます
 
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