さ as an ending particle

[KrazyKat]

Hi everyone, I'd like to ask a question if I may.

Now I am somewhat familiar with さ , but not so much that I'd be confident when to use it. Eg. I'm not sure if its more 'masculine or feminine' or for young or old people etc. It doesn't really seem to add much force to the sentence like よ does. Could it be compared to な? Although I'm not too sure about that one either.

I've also heard people say things like さあ ねえ a few times, translated as 'who knows'. I took this to be a different usage, is that right?

Thanks in advance,
Katherine.

 

[Elizabeth]

All I know is not much more, but that it is mostly used by men, probably somewhat rude or "gehin" and completely different than the interjection saa that invites someone to come (here, here, come on !) alternately expressing hesitation (well, hmmm let me see) or determination (well now...).

My approach is simply not to try using particles like sa, ze or zo etc until I'm absolutely sure (and most of them are for guys anyway...).

 

[KrazyKat]

Thanks Elizabeth.
I always seem to concentrate on what people are saying, rather than who's saying it or how (with what underlying tone) they are saying it and so I run into all kinds of difficulties distinguishing between different styles of speech and probably have all kinds of bad habits. I think I fell into the trap of thinking that if its a japanese person saying or writing something then it must be correct japanese. Now I realise that its just japanese appropriate for that person/character and of course not 'correct' at all.

It is the nuances behind choices of words/particles and abbreviations that I feel to be most difficult about japanese, its something you can't just learn from a dictionary (usually) but takes a lot of practice.

I'm trying to remember why I just wrote all of that now...

 

[bentenmusume]

"sa" is not exclusively masculine, it's not 下品, and it's certainly "correct" Japanese.

It's pretty casual, so I wouldn't use it when talking to your boss or your Japanese teacher or whoever, but there's no reason to avoid it in the appropriate social situations (such as casual conversations with friends around your age).

One of its most common uses is in breaking up extended sentences, like:

こないださぁ、駅前歩いてたらさぁ、変なおじさんに話しかけられてさぁ・・・

Some people might look at this and say it's "bad Japanese", but fact is that many people (mostly young people) talk this way. That's why it's important (as KrazyKat mentions above) to pay attention not just to the language itself but who's saying it and what situation they're saying it in.

Personally, just watching Japanese television and observing people around me and the like, I can kind of get a sense for which people I want to model my speech after.

"sa" is also heard when calling someone to get their attention (actually, I was just called with 「ジョン君さ・・・」 about 5 minutes ago by one of my bosses).

Anyway, that's hardly comprehensive, but for what it's worth...

 

[Elizabeth]

One of its most common uses is in breaking up extended sentences, like:

こないださぁ、駅前歩いてたらさぁ、変なおじさんに話しかけられてさぁ・・・

Maybe then that is closer to the interjection "saa" I was thinking of earlier...
hmmm....perhaps they are more related than I thought. I guess "gehin" depends on your perspective -- that is the just the word that was used when I was told not to try using it as a sentence-ending particle in the same conversation we were talking about zo and ze. I'm terribly confused...

 

[Hiroyuki Nagashima]

「さあ」
I was interested about a use of "さあ".
国語辞書
の意味 - goo国語辞書
（1）「さあ、出かけよう。」
「さあ、はじめるよ。」
（2）「さあ、どうでしょう」＝「さあ、ねぇ」
（３）「さあ、がんばるぞ！」
「さあ、これからだ！」
（4）「さあ、こまった」
「さあ、どうしよう」
「さあ、捕まえたぞ」
「さあ、はじまった」
Meanings are different each
Other than it
「さあさあ」
（1） 「さあさあ、もう起きなさい。」

 

[Elizabeth]

From Jim Breen's dictionary, this is the definition I (and perhaps Katherine) was thinking of earlier...

さ (prt) (sentence end, mainly masc.) indicates assertion

 

[bentenmusume]

Maybe then that is closer to the interjection "saa" I was thinking of earlier...
hmmm....perhaps they are more related than I thought.

No, it's not. I put the small "sa(a)" on it just because some people usually draw out the vowel sound. It has nothing to do with the 「さあ、ね」 "Gee, beats me" 「さあ」. Well, I won't say "nothing", because I don't know enough about the history of the language/etymology, but at the very least, there's no sense at all of uncertainty in the example I gave. Depending on who's speaking, you might also see 「ね」 or 「な」 used like this (the latter is a Kansai thing, I believe).
Nagashima-san gave some good examples of the various uses/nuances of 「さあ」.
「さ」 is listed separately here:
サービス終了のお知らせ

I guess "gehin" depends on your perspective -- that is the just the word that was used when I was told not to try using it as a sentence-ending particle in the same conversation we were talking about zo and ze.

I absolutely agree about the issue of what is and isn't considered 下品 being dependent on your perspective. Still, I tend to be wary of taking any one person's opinion on something like that as the objective truth. All I know is that I've come across enough examples of perfectly intelligent and articulate people using 「さ」 in certain circumstances to convince me that it's not just some vulgarity that should be avoided at all costs.

 

[KrazyKat]

Wow. Thanks so much everyone. Both sa and saa are so much clearer.

So say while a young girl might say あのね a boy might say あのさ to start a sentence? (obviously not quite that simple and it would be dangerous to consider them equivalents)
So i've got that its casual although not excessively vulgar, not exclusively masculine and used for emphasis.

Hiroyuki's post cleared up saa too. I hadn't seen it broken up by its uses like that, it was a great help.

Thanks again!

 

[nhk9]

Wow. Thanks so much everyone. Both sa and saa are so much clearer.
So say while a young girl might say あのね a boy might say あのさ to start a sentence? (obviously not quite that simple and it would be dangerous to consider them equivalents)
So i've got that its casual although not excessively vulgar, not exclusively masculine and used for emphasis.
Hiroyuki's post cleared up saa too. I hadn't seen it broken up by its uses like that, it was a great help.
Thanks again!

If you are a male (say in your teens, 20s) then it's better to avoid using anosa a lot... at least that's what my native speaking friends told me when I asked them earlier. The over-usage of sa is a more common phenomenon among female speakers, but many male speakers use it too. However, they say that when male speakers overuse the sa especially during conversations with female partners, the male might project an image of trying to "blend in", and may not give a great impression toward others.