お疲れ様、ご苦労様

tanhql · 23 Nov 2006

is there a difference bewteen お疲れ様 and ご苦労様? thanks.

Damicci · 23 Nov 2006

I have never heard ご苦労様 I wish I could understand it's usage.
But I know お疲れ様 Is used when you finished work for the day. Or as a greeting when meeting with friends after work.

maybe ご苦労様 can be used for more of immediate work done and not the whole day. Say you finished a project before lunch. I don't know hope somebody can chime in on this.

leonmarino · 23 Nov 2006

Well, I did some Googling around, and came up with the following conclusion:
ご苦労様（ごくろうさま） is used by superiors to thank his/her people lower in rank.
お疲れ様（おつかれさま） is used amongst peers and to people higher in rank.
So a CEO would say ご苦労様 after a meeting, to which the workers could reply with お疲れ様.. Or more formally お疲れ様でした.
I love the word お疲れ様, especially when toasting (instead of Kanpai)..
お疲れ～っす！
Maybe it's just me, but it sounds more "caring" towards each other than a simple "cheers" or "santé".

Damicci · 23 Nov 2006

leonmarino said:
Well, I did some Googling around, and came up with the following conclusion:
ご苦労様（ごくろうさま） is used by superiors to thank his/her people lower in rank.
お疲れ様（おつかれさま） is used amongst peers and to people higher in rank.
So a CEO would say ご苦労様 after a meeting, to which the workers could reply with お疲れ様.. Or more formally お疲れ様でした.
I love the word お疲れ様, especially when toasting (instead of Kanpai)..
お疲れ～っす！
Maybe it's just me, but it sounds more "caring" towards each other than a simple "cheers" or "santé".

Yeah for some reason it is more fun to say お疲れ~ to me also.
I also asked my gf about ご苦労様 and she said it is the same meaning. I wonder if this happens at her meetings with the 2 phrases.

leonmarino · 23 Nov 2006

Damicci said:
I also asked my gf about ご苦労様 and she said it is the same meaning. I wonder if this happens at her meetings with the 2 phrases.

Yeah that would be interesting to know, although it was just an example.. I found quite a few sites that said saying ご苦労様 to a superior is seriously not done. No "official" sources though.

Damicci · 23 Nov 2006

Damicci says:
ご苦労様の意味は何ですか？
先輩は後輩にご苦労様と言うが、後輩は先輩にお疲れ様と言うでしょう。

☆Rieko☆ says:
「お疲れ様」と同じ意味です
または、「ありがとうございます」
文による
でも、どっちでも大丈夫だよ
でも、普通若い人々は「お疲れ様」を使います

So I guess both are ok to use. She didn't specifically say both are good to use with superiors so I assume you would normally use お疲れ様。

Glenn · 23 Nov 2006

I thought that "properly" お疲れさま was used by superiors to 部下. Young people use it with friends, but then again, young people don't really know how to use 敬語.

As a side note, my teachers use お疲れさま to us after tests or when we've worked hard on something.

Cue · 23 Nov 2006

Personally, I'd strongly recommend you use "otsukaresama" or "arigatougozaimashita" at all time instead of "gokurousama".

MrWabu · 24 Nov 2006

Although the meaning is basically the same, you shouldn't use ごくろさま to your teacher after a lesson (or your boss after work) as it sounds somewhat like you were worked to death and didn't enjoy it.

Elizabeth · 6 Dec 2006

Glenn said:
I thought that "properly" お疲れさま was used by superiors to 部下. Young people use it with friends, but then again, young people don't really know how to use 敬語.

Not only young people. Everyone uses it among family and friends as far as I know.

Elizabeth · 6 Dec 2006

Cue said:
Personally, I'd strongly recommend you use "otsukaresama" or "arigatougozaimashita" at all time instead of "gokurousama".

The only time I would use gokurousama, and never at work, would be to show extra gratitude for the person that had done a very special favor. For someone that helped with a move, made a special delivery that could have been their duty but not necessarily....If it is so difficult to feel out the right time, though, probly it is easier not to worry about it for a while now.

undrentide · 6 Dec 2006

Cue said:
Personally, I'd strongly recommend you use "otsukaresama" or "arigatougozaimashita" at all time instead of "gokurousama".

I'll second Cue san.
The only time I use "gokurou sama" is to a delivery person when receiving a parcel from him.
Since "gokurou sama" sounds patronizing, it is safe to avoid it unless you are sure about the connotation and whether it is suitable for the occasion or not.

Damicci · 6 Dec 2006

undrentide said:
I'll second Cue san.
The only time I use "gokurou sama" is to a delivery person when receiving a parcel from him.
Since "gokurou sama" sounds patronizing, it is safe to avoid it unless you are sure about the connotation and whether it is suitable for the occasion or not.

I agree with Undrentide.

Elizabeth · 6 Dec 2006

undrentide said:
I'll second Cue san.
The only time I use "gokurou sama" is to a delivery person when receiving a parcel from him.
Since "gokurou sama" sounds patronizing, it is safe to avoid it unless you are sure about the connotation and whether it is suitable for the occasion or not.

Just out of curiousity, how does (or should ) the delivery person respond to that type of an expression ? Doumo arigatou and/ or a bow ?

I read in a Japanese textbook that 'gokurou sama' was sometimes used as a greeting by superiors before starting a meeting but I've never heard that usage elsewhere. Osewasama may be interchangeable with both arigatou and otsukaresama....It's all so very confusing....

undrentide · 6 Dec 2006

Elizabeth said:
Just out of curiousity, how does (or should ) the delivery person respond to that type of an expression ? Doumo arigatou and/ or a bow ?
I read in a Japanese textbook that 'gokurou sama' was sometimes used as a greeting by superiors before starting a meeting but I've never heard that usage elsewhere. Osewasama may be interchangeable with both arigatou and otsukaresama....It's all so very confusing....

Usually they say "doumo~" and leave, smiling.
(They are from post office, or courier service such as kuroneko-yamato, pelican, sagawa, etc.)

Personally I've never heard "gokurou sama" used at the meeting, even at the biggest one with the president and more than 1,000 employees...
In fact I've never heard of "gokurou sama" used in my office, except to the delivery persons, but I don't know about other companies and offices. It may varies depending on the company. (Ours is trying to generate a liberal at mosphere, we are encouraged not to use the title when addressing to others. Even the presidents and the directors are addressed "xxx-san" instead of "xxx shachou" "xxx buchou".) It could be different at more conservative working places.

I sometimes use "osewasama" to delivery persons instead of "gokurousama".
It is "safer", I think, without the patronizing connotation.

お疲れ様、ご苦労様

tanhql

日本語の学生

Damicci

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leonmarino

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Damicci

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leonmarino

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Damicci

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Glenn

一切皆苦

Cue

今北産業

MrWabu

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Elizabeth

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Elizabeth

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undrentide

Japa'n vagyok

Damicci

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Elizabeth

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undrentide

Japa'n vagyok

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