「と」の後ろに、過去形が書いてあった

J44xm · 15 Oct 2006

Today, I ate a restaurant named Sukiya. At the table, there was a sign that read: 「安全を考えるとオーストラリア産100％になりました。」 My question is why the past tense is used after what is apparently the conditional 「と」. I'm not quite sure what the meaning is.

Many thanks for any assistance.

Gaijinian · 15 Oct 2006

With safety in my, we chose to use 100% Aussy (beef?)
Because they already made this decision, you see

it is like saying: anzen wo kangaetara, ....
like the same meaning

J44xm · 15 Oct 2006

I see. So then there's nothing really special about it at all, huh? Just "we did this, and thus it naturally became this." (In retrospect, I'm not sure what threw me off about this.) Many thanks!

Mike Cash · 15 Oct 2006

Gaijinian Man said:
With safety in my, we chose to use 100% Aussy (beef?)
Because they already made this decision, you see
it is like saying: anzen wo kangaetara, ....
like the same meaning

Except that the なりました would be odd there.

Glenn · 15 Oct 2006

Yeah, I found it exceptionally odd as well. Then I found this page, which states three conditions where you can use 過去形 with と.

S1 と S2 の関係
例文
S1 が S2 のきっかけ
田中さんは、先生に呼ばれると、すぐ立ち上がりました。

S1 によって S2 を発見
教室へ行くと、もう授業が始まっていました。

S1 をしているとき S2 がおこる
図書館で本を読んでいると、先生がきました。

I believe it's the きっかけ version.

Mike Cash · 15 Oct 2006

Glenn said:
Yeah, I found it exceptionally odd as well.

No, I meant that if he changed it to 考えたら then なりました would sound a bit odd. しました would work better.

Glenn · 15 Oct 2006

Oh. Well, I still found it exceptionally odd.

Elizabeth · 15 Oct 2006

Mike Cash said:
No, I meant that if he changed it to 考えたら then なりました would sound a bit odd. しました would work better.

考えたら followed by the past tense normally implies I think that the decision to serve Australian beef somehow came as a surprise or unintended consequence after thinking through safety concerns, which would of course be very strange in this case.

考えると、なりました is more like it happened right away after the safety issues were brought to light. Upon considerations of safety....

undrentide · 15 Oct 2006

Mike Cash said:
No, I meant that if he changed it to 考えたら then なりました would sound a bit odd. しました would work better.

It's a typical Japanese expression - using なる instead of する, as if things happens by themselves, spontaneously, instead "we" (or someone) do it, make it.

「安全を考えるとオーストラリア産100％になりました。」
"Considering safety, (result/our choice) became 100% Aussie beef."

Of course it is also possible to say
「安全を考えてオーストラリア産100%にしました。」

Glenn · 15 Oct 2006

But, as I believe he was saying, 安全を考えたらオーストラリア産100%になりました would sound strange, and it should be しました instead in that case.

undrentide · 15 Oct 2006

Glenn said:
But, as I believe he was saying, 安全を考えたらオーストラリア産100%になりました would sound strange, and it should be しました instead in that case.

Hmmm...
To me, 安全を考えたらオーストラリア産100%にしました would sound strange...

Glenn · 15 Oct 2006

So I guess the たら version is out, then?

undrentide · 15 Oct 2006

Glenn said:
So I guess the たら version is out, then?

To my ears
考えたら～になりました
考えると～になりました
考えて～にしました
sound OK, but

考えたら～にしました
考えると～にしました
sound awkward.

考えて～になりました
is somewhere between OK and awkward.
But then I'm saying only from my "instinct" and cannot explain why.
I hope someone would give explanation...

Elizabeth · 15 Oct 2006

sound OK, but
考えたら～にしました
考えると～にしました
sound awkward.

Does にしました sound like "When we thought about it, we decided on....such and such (100%)." We decided on 100% rather than 90% or 50% ? Like you decide on taking the taxi over a bus or decide to take a vacation in Tokyo, not Osaka.
That is generally how I would read that sentence, but not normally with 考えたら either.

「と」の後ろに、過去形が書いてあった

J44xm

経験値が足りない

Gaijinian

Sempai

J44xm

経験値が足りない

Mike Cash

骨も命も皆此の土地に埋めよう

Glenn

一切皆苦

Mike Cash

骨も命も皆此の土地に埋めよう

Glenn

一切皆苦

Elizabeth

先輩

undrentide

Japa'n vagyok

Glenn

一切皆苦

undrentide

Japa'n vagyok

Glenn

一切皆苦

undrentide

Japa'n vagyok

Elizabeth

先輩

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