Hello, could someone please help me deciphering the signature on a small Meiji period bronze okimono of Fukurokuju?
Thank you very much in advance,
Mat
Mat
Thank you very much in advance,
Mat
Mat
Signature on Bronze Okimono
- Thread starter MatW
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Please forget that, I am wrong for sure... Would any of the two possibilities you gave me make sense as a name in combination with the second kanji?
Mat
- 15 Mar 2002
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No, they wouldn't. Those were only names of common *parts* of kanji used for classification and looking up ksnji. I only mentioned them to provide help or a clue to anyone else who may be trying to read it. I'm thoroughly bake baffled by the first one.
- 22 Feb 2008
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Most likely not, because of the length of the vertical stroke of the radical/hen (the left half of the kanji), the position of the dot, and the lack of the vertical strokes in tsukuri (the right half of the kanji).
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Maybe it is 城南 (Jonan) ? There was a bronze artist of that name, and his signature resembles somehow the one on m piece: Bonhams : A bronze okimono of a woman By Jonan, Meiji era (1868-1912) (3) (There is a picture of the signature in the link for comparison)
Mat
Mat
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Just for update, I have shown the piece to two experts on Meiji period bronzes, and both read the signature as "城南", without me having suggested this reading to them. It guess that it is not easy to inscribe kanji with a chisel in bronze, so maybe that is why it is so difficult to decipher the signature...
Mat
Mat
- 12 Oct 2013
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You got two Meiji bronze experts lined up and you are coming here for advice?? 
Just busting yer balls Mat. I wouldn't think the difficulty of carving/engraving bronze has anything to do with it, but I'm not a bronze artist, so maybe there is something to that. 城 looks close, but there are some problems with it, not the least of which it is missing some crucial strokes, and the positions of some of the lines are so distorted as to be unrecognizable as 城. When put side-by-side you can see the differences. If this were a sword, you would have to say that one of them is a fake. But I defer to the experts. I would be interested in what they have to say about those differences.
Just busting yer balls Mat. I wouldn't think the difficulty of carving/engraving bronze has anything to do with it, but I'm not a bronze artist, so maybe there is something to that. 城 looks close, but there are some problems with it, not the least of which it is missing some crucial strokes, and the positions of some of the lines are so distorted as to be unrecognizable as 城. When put side-by-side you can see the differences. If this were a sword, you would have to say that one of them is a fake. But I defer to the experts. I would be interested in what they have to say about those differences.
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Look, I came here for help after having posted this in other specialized forums, but without getting any answers (which came yesterday in the end). First I posted this on an Asian Arts Forum, but then without the Bonhams link . One person there has a lot of experience with bronze okimono. He stated the mei reads Jonan, but places the okimono stylistically a bit later, Taisho to early Showa. He concludes that my sculptor and the Meiji Jonan are likely not the same person. The other person was actually from a Japanese sword forum, and he also read it as Jonan, not commenting on the figure itself. I don't want to hide that I today I got a third opinion, from a specialized Kyoto based antiques dealer I contacted. He reads the signature as " 堆南" So, everything is a bit confusing.....
Mat
PS: Just for fun, another mei for Jonan that I found, I wonder how they deciphered this one: A Bronze Sculpture of Monkeys Christie's Japanese Craftsmanship: Art of the Meiji Period
Mat
PS: Just for fun, another mei for Jonan that I found, I wonder how they deciphered this one: A Bronze Sculpture of Monkeys Christie's Japanese Craftsmanship: Art of the Meiji Period
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- 15 Mar 2002
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That one is pretty clear and easy to read. Either the guy signed his name in radically different ways on different pieces or there are some fakes floating around.
- 22 Feb 2008
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an example of 城南 in cursive script.
It might not be impossible to interpret so, but the point is whether the artist really used this type of signature or not.
It might not be impossible to interpret so, but the point is whether the artist really used this type of signature or not.
- 12 Oct 2013
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Wow, that cursive 城 looks like a close match indeed. I have to surrender this battle - you've done well with tracking this down and Toritoribe-san's sample convinced me. 城南 Jōnan it is. (Whether it is a counterfeit or not I leave to the experts). In the sword world, where I have some interest/experience, it would be rare to see a smith who used such different styles. But bronze artists may be different.
Anyway, (yet another) good exercise in humility for me. Good detective work from Mat and Toritoribe-san, too.
Anyway, (yet another) good exercise in humility for me. Good detective work from Mat and Toritoribe-san, too.
