Value of foreign degrees in Japan

[stormchasar]

Hey all, I've got a pretty specific question that I hope some of you can help me with.

You guys don't want to hear all the boring backstory, so to make things short, I'm a Canadian citizen, I just finished first year at a respected Canadian university, I speak Japanese (including business keigo and nomikai slang) proficiently but not perfectly, I'm engaged to a Japanese woman, and I would like to move over to Japan to be with her as soon as possible. I have lived in Japan for about half a year in the past.

Because we are getting married, a visa isn't really an issue. I don't want to work as a bartender or English teacher for the rest of my life, so I would like to finish my university degree so I can work as a translator or in some position at a Japanese company that a bachelor of arts could get me into.

I'm looking at two options to complete my Canadian bachelor of arts degree while in Japan.

The first is a well-respected school aimed at working adults that lets me complete a Communications degree in two years via distance learning. However, I will have to return to Canada for a brief three week residency twice to finish the program. Also, although it's intended for working adults so it can be completed while working full time, the schedule is relatively tight and I have to stay on top of things.

The other is a somewhat less respected school which has a broader range of degrees that can be completed through distance learning. I wouldn't have to return to Canada at all to get my degree, and I can also work at my own pace, taking however long I want to finish every course, which would fit much better with my new, probably stressful life in Japan. My (somewhat snooty lawyer) mom has told me "no son of mine is going to (that school)!" They're both legitimate, accredited degree-granting institutions. Neither of them are Harvard or Oxford, and neither of them are Bible College of Northeastern Alaska. If I were to stay in Canada, the first school would probably give me better job prospects.

However, it occurred to me that Japanese employers will almost definitely not have heard of either school. They're both legitimate institutions, so even if they look the school up, they're unlikely to see anything bad written about them. The second school is not only cheaper but much easier to work around living and working abroad.

Does the "prestige" of a foreign degree really matter in Japan? Given that neither school is either really good or really bad, does it really matter which one I go to from an employer's point of view?

 

[Mike Cash]

More important is what you study, not where you study, if you envision yourself being a translator.

What sort of education and marketable job skills do you hope to have in hand at the completion of your degree? Focus in those, rather than just the parchment itself and the name of the institution.

 

[stormchasar]

That's a valid point and I will definitely keep it in mind. Still, at the present time I'm not really thinking so much about a specialized job like "translator" or "lawyer" that some sort of specific education exists for. I'm thinking about what sort of degree would help me get my foot in the door at the average company. For example, there's a huge number of jobs I could do with a communications/PR degree, and that being the case, the more "prestigious" the communications degree, the better for any of those jobs.

 

[Mike Cash]

I see. My point about working as a translator is that good language skills alone aren't really enough; it helps tremendously to have some education or experience in the particular field you find yourself translating for.

 

[edogaijin]

I can only speak to my field... which is Information Technology, but in general I can say there's a cultural difference here.

At precisely zero Japanese companies have I ever been asked a barrage of technical questions. Japanese companies tend to value different things during recruitment than their Western counterparts. A Computer Engineering or Computer Science degree means quite little here in Japan -- and it's fair to say that many IT workers have little formal education in their fields. A lot of it comes from on the job training.

Remuneration at many Japanese companies seems to be based off age, seniority, Japanese language proficiency and very little else. I wouldn't expect salaries anywhere nearly on the level of Canada or US for many entry level positions. Translation as a field varies wildly, however. I knew one gentlemen pulling in over 1 million yen a month. The other could barely afford noodles from the local foodmart.

Few things to consider:

-Japanese require a degree only because the government does, for visa sponsorship purpose
-Translation is a fairly full market
-The job market here is very cyclical, most companies are fairly inflexible in their hiring procedures

In short, they'll care how good your language skills are. It's sort of rough for *anyone* not speaking N2 level Japanese to get work here outside English teaching. From my own experience, I have many years work experience in IT. I'm 29 years old and I have 3 college degrees. I've been told as recently as this week that I should "consider going home to America" due to my lack of linguistic proficiency.

Japan is simply not an immigrant nation, and it is difficult to find work here for non-natives. That all said, your attitude seems solid. You'll probably fare better than most. As a matter of principle...

I recommend shying away from the larger J-firms. A lot of them pay far less and work you more to the bone than their 外資系 counterparts. Your mileage may vary.

 

[Glenski]

Does the "prestige" of a foreign degree really matter in Japan?

Usually, nope. If you want to be a translator (changing the language of written materials) vs. being an interpreter (helping with spoken language), you might want to consider going through translation training. Does either school offer that?

Also keep in mind that despite knowing Japanese, you will be considered a foreigner and might just be offered little more than an eikaiwa-like position within the company.

Companies nowadays, especially the small to mid-sized ones, are acutely aware of the need to have their employees use English, but they don't have the finances to pay for such training, whether within the company or outside. Having a person like you on staff would be a benefit, but keep in mind that the main things most of these companies need English for are the following:

* reading/writing email and faxes
* doing teleconferences or the occasional videoconference
* interacting with clients whether they are sales people or the persons to whom you sell

Are you willing to be roped into that, or are you shooting for the mundane solitary and ill-paid position of translating contracts and marketing documents from one language to the next?

Got a specific field of business in mind? Might make a difference.

at the present time I'm not really thinking so much about a specialized job like "translator" or "lawyer" that some sort of specific education exists for. I'm thinking about what sort of degree would help me get my foot in the door at the average company.

Just having a degree in a specialized field and knowing lots of Japanese are not a complete set of marketable skills. They are good, yes, but fresh college grads here are hired based on the reputation of the uni where they graduated, and companies shuffle them around for 1-3 years until they get plenty of exposure to various departments, then zero in on what promotion track they will pursue. Foreigners, I don't know. But, if all you have is the degree, and no work experience, I wouldn't expect to be treated much better. In short, what do you think you can bring to the bargaining table? I think you might be valuing yourself too highly at this point.

 

[undrentide]

A friend of mine (American) used to work for a Japanese manufacturer and did translating job. He translated user manuals from Japanese into English, also proofread some manuals translated into English by someone else. He is very fluent in Japanese. He was not a proper employee of the company, but worked as a temp staff under contract. He complained that he earned less than what he have earned when he was an English teacher (ALT) and doing private English lessons. (He has a degree in IT, specialised in programming, so his degree has nothing to do with the job he did.)

 

[edogaijin]

I think it's pretty common for people to study/work outside their field. Japanese colleges are sort of a joke.. I mean the kids get in and do basically nothing for 4-5 years. Sorta the same at many US universities, sadly...

Yeah, I can say that I've been unemployed for nearly 3 months and have a masters from one of the top 10 universities in US. Japan just doesn't care about foreign degrees.

I think part of what we gotta accept as foreigners here is that haken keiyaku contracts are the new norm. At least until there's some labor reform, welcome to the nation of the disposable foreigner.

 

[Dotanbatan]

Companies nowadays, especially the small to mid-sized ones, are acutely aware of the need to have their employees use English, but they don't have the finances to pay for such training, whether within the company or outside. Having a person like you on staff would be a benefit, but keep in mind that the main things most of these companies need English for are the following:

* reading/writing email and faxes
* doing teleconferences or the occasional videoconference
* interacting with clients whether they are sales people or the persons to whom you sell

This just about sums up the job description for a medium sized company I worked at.

It was sometimes mundane but actually very involved as you had to get to know all aspects of the business well, in a short period of time!

For close to a year almost all I was working on was gaining ISO9001 accreditation for the company, which was a real battle. After we gained this it opened up further areas of work for me (including regular trips to the US and Europe) and I was very well looked after.

I was also roped into 'English' classes a couple of times a week which I used to look forward to. It usually involved helping some of my workmates increase their TOEIC score. As I got more involved with the increasing English correspondence and documentation, they hired a regular English Teacher who did a much better job than me with the TOEIC prep.

This was almost 20 years ago but the need for this type of 'jack of all trades' Native English speaker position is probably even greater today.

 

[Mike Cash]

I think part of what we gotta accept as foreigners here is that haken keiyaku contracts are the new norm. At least until there's some labor reform, welcome to the nation of the disposable foreigner.

I'm a seishain. In many fields, though, contracted temps are becoming the norm even for Japanese workers. Companies are reluctant to saddle themselves with seishain if they don't have to. In my case...they have to.

 

[edogaijin]

I worked at Rakuten for a little over half a year. My Japanese is around JLPT3 level, I can tell you the sentiment on my team at the nomikai was that the Englishnization was a massive joke. The buzzards screaming for change up the chain are usually unwilling to take the second rational step that would come with it -- less servicing the ol' zangyou, modern biz practices, hiring more foreigners...

But hey I'm a cynic. We're probably the canary in the coal mine here. Contracts will be the new norm for most people. My guess is that the labor laws will get updated soon as part of Abe's 市場の構造かいかく. S'pose time will tell..

 

[Mike Cash]

Another tactic being taken is the creation of separate companies to service the needs of the parent company and only the parent company.

 

[tomoni]

Hi Storm Chaser,

Provided that both schools are recognised by the the Ministry of education (of your province) you should be fine. The prestige issue of the University is not that important (though it should be a 4 year degree), unless it is from some place like Harvard, Oxford, etc. The brand name of your university is more important with big multinationals (especially because you would have a "network" with people who are well-networked).

But other than than, having graduated from a Canadian University should be sufficient. BTW, I am curious what the distance learning institution is, do you mind sharing that? (Canadian Unis have been slow on the distance learning end, in terms of having any true Distance Learning Program with the exception of Athabasca University).

Hope that helpsﾂ…

 

[Mikeru]

From most of the replies, it appears that prestige is not a very boosting/hindering factor in seeking employment. But what are the main concrete reasons behind it, besides it being mainly being used as a validator for visa application?

 

[Glenski]

Reasons behind what? The lack of effect of a degree from a prestigious uni? Keep in mind that most people in Japan coast through college years, making friends and close relationships that they will take with them for the rest of their lives. And, they get jobs often NOT by their academic achievements but by connections with their advisor and a year-long series of interviews and tests. Big name companies here hire from big name Japanese universities, but that's about it.

 

[Mikeru]

Actually I do mean "The lack of effect of a degree from a prestigious uni". Perhaps I'm pushing too much of the perceptions of "local FT degrees > most other degree types" in my country because the effects of both have pronounced different effects, espcially in the civil service. Point me out if I am wrong.

 

[tomoni]

Does the "prestige" of a foreign degree really matter in Japan? Given that neither school is either really good or really bad, does it really matter which one I go to from an employer's point of view?

Unless it is an extremely prestigious uni, IMO, there is not much difference for Japanese employers. The important this is that you have one (4 year degree esp for visa). For full-time employment, a degree is important (even if you do not require a work visa, since you will likely have a suppose visit) because it affects you starting "rank" within the company salary system.

hope that helps