Taiji Dolphin industry

[Mike Cash]

I was merely seeking an answer to the question if you get worked up over the death of other animals or if only dolphins and whales matter to you. It wouldn't kill you to display the courtesy to answer it. After all, I have at least given you the courtesy of honestly discussing your topic with you, which I will be gauche enough to point out is something people have hardly been falling all over themselves to do.

 

[Tim Roberts]

I mean we know this is not even the real problem. The live export market from Taiji to dolphianriums is. They treat them like pocket money, ship them to subsidiaries, which are then distributed to the dolphin shows. At that point no one knows where they have come from, and along with that accountability, everything gets lost in translation. This is why the Taiji massacre needs to be shut down. If a dolphinarium wants to operate, they should organise their own wild capture. There is no room for denying responsibility then, and the needless slaughter of dolphins for profit can end!

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I'm not here to solve every problem that can be imagined. I am not a strict vegan if that is what you want to know, but i make an effort to make responsible choices.

Just take a look for yourself at what goes on in Taiji: Taiji Dolphin Defenseﾂ?|ﾂ?Another EZ EARTH NETWORK site

It is a cruel, inhumane practice run by corrupt and greed driven men. There is no other way to describe it!

 

[Tim Roberts]

Don't get me wrong Mike, i'm not having a go at you, and i don't think less of you for not wanting to take up the call to help stop this needless cruelty against dolphins, or whales for that matter (which the Taiji operation also hunt), we all fight our own battles. I am hoping that some people here will get involved and voice their opposition and withdraw their support from the dolphin industry, or lobby for more responsible practices. Everyone who does that drives another nail in the Taiji operation's coffin, and will help end the massacre of over 20,000 dolphins each year (yes, that many). Whether it's this year, or in 10 years, will depend on how many are willing to voice their opposition.

From what i know about Japan, it is a beautiful country full of wonderful people. It makes it hard to see it when this is going on. It would clearly be beneficial to end the slaughter, and the power it has over many to direct hatred at Japan is incredibly strong. I myself don't condone that, but i have seen many a good person react and say the most horrible of things when they have learned about it. i think that speaks volumes by itself. I don't know if you can really understand the depth, scale, and horror of it until you see it for yourself.

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Actually, when it comes to chicken farming, it's not so much about the volume for me... it is how they are treated, what they are fed, how they are housed, how they are processed, and how they are distributed. But there are trade-offs to an extent. All of those things i'd like to see being improved will impact profitability. I am willing to pay for it, but many are not, and a change means there is a short to mid-term cost to people. I think it would be a much harder battle to win at this point in time because of the sheer size of the industry, and the solution would be very complex. With the dolphins, it is simple.

All i can do is try to make the best choice available to me, and when i don't have that choice, i need to seek change.. it doesn't really matter what it is. I am passionate about certain things more than others, such as sustainability and renewables, animal welfare, and human rights. Why dolphins? I just can't stand to see it happen. They are wonderful creatures, i have swum with them a few times in my life and it leaves an unforgettable impression on you. What they are doing in Taiji is needless, and ruthless.

 

[Mark of Zorro]

Actually, when it comes to chicken farming, it's not so much about the volume for me... it is how they are treated, what they are fed, how they are housed, how they are processed, and how they are distributed.

I do not consider myself to be an expert, but if half of what I heard is true, you should leave Taiji alone and go burn down some chicken farming factories (after releasing the birds cage by cage). From being crammed into cages with nothing but a wire floor, with crap always falling from above, to having their beaks torn off to prevent damaging other birds as they would in their cramped conditions...meanwhile dolphins swim free, and a mere handful meet their end at Taiji after a sonic panic followed by a spear to the brain.

I don't think any dolphin would choose to be a chicken, even if a dolphin fortune teller saw Taiji in their crystal ball.

Mind you, I deplore the situation in Taiji because there are good reasons why humans should value dolphins as much as dogs, cats and horses. But if you have priorities, its the factory farms that need attacking much, much more than those mercury-laden, inbred and mildly insane sea rednecks in Taiji.

 

[Tim Roberts]

I don't believe in violence as a solution, besides that violence generally doesn't work! Maybe you actually succeed at setting them back, but in the mean-time, you are in jail and they have gathered sympathy from the public, making it harder to expose the truth, and a deterrent to more effective activism. Your description of the process of killing is not quite right, in fact i'd have to say its not very close to it at all. Everything else you said i completely agree with!

 

[Tim Roberts]

Taiji dolphins get a day of reprieve from the rain, but without the ability to find food, without sleep, and with many of their beloved pod ripped from them and taken captive (or already dead from getting caught in the nets, exhaustion, and from open wounds caused by the boats running over the top of them with their propellors), it is just prolonging the cruelty.

I would be in an uproar if this were chickens or cattle, and dolphins have no place in our food chain, and is not a price that should be paid for entertainment.

 

[ewww]

and dolphins have no place in our food chain

food but not in our food chain ... are You playing charades?


Obama to Bush(O2B): Hey, I have new charade for You.
Bush to Obama(B2O): Yeah, bring it here.
O2B: Son of my father, but not my brother, can You suggest who?
B2O: Laura?
O2B: Nope ... It's ME!

2 days later, Bush and Rice

B2R: Condoleezza, would You like new charade?
R2B: Yes! Yes!
B2R: Son of my father, but not my brother, can You suggest who?
R2B: You?
B2R: Nope ... I do not know how that could happen, but it is Barack

 

[Mark of Zorro]

I don't believe in violence as a solution, besides that violence generally doesn't work!

I hate violence. But sorry, it does work. In the face of violence, its non-violence that tends to not work.

Anyway, burning down those disgusting factory farms would not be violence. It would be arson. Pleading, begging, protesting and campaigning on the internet will not end factory farming.

Maybe you actually succeed at setting them back, but in the mean-time, you are in jail and they have gathered sympathy from the public, making it harder to expose the truth, and a deterrent to more effective activism.

No reason not to try and avoid jail. And the truth will not win just for being the truth. Burning down factory farms would spread the truth about them. It would be on every news channel if there were a movement doing this. Ignorance of factory farm methods would disappear practically overnight. And that would be a huge mark against them. Right now their chief advantage is that most people don't know what goes on. But exposing them would be, I admit, only half the battle.

Your description of the process of killing is not quite right, in fact i'd have to say its not very close to it at all.

It was brief. I know how horrible the Taiji slaughter is. If it was up to me I would ban it under pain of a life sentence in prison. I consider the dolphins to be more human and more valuable than the sea hillbilly psychos of Taiji.

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I would be in an uproar if this were chickens or cattle, and dolphins have no place in our food chain, and is not a price that should be paid for entertainment.

On what basis do chickens and cattle have a place in our food chain over dolphins? You think pre-history humans brought down cattle with their claws and fangs after chasing them down on foot?

I have it on good sources that humans are omnivores, but leaning toward vegetarianism. Its like chimps sometimes eat meat, but its like a once a year thing. 364 days of the year they are eating berries, nuts and fruit.

 

[Tim Roberts]

We can probably respectably disagree on a few things. Cows, goats, chickens, pigs, etc... have been a part of our food culture for many many millenia at least. I don't think there has ever been even a single culture that did not have meat as part of the typical diet. Dolphins were not part of our food culture before modern society. If you call dolphin and whale a part of our food culture, you can call any species on the face of the earth, animal or not, a part of our food culture. We were not meant to feed on the great creatures of the ocean, they were not in our domain as we evolved. Coastal and estuary fishing would have been part of pre-modern food culture in many cases. As for meat in general, i have to say its a personal choice, because clearly it has its place in both modern, and pre-modern culture. We are no longer human if we ignore those biological drives that have been passed onto us.

Whether or not burning a barn down can be called violence or not was not my point. Greenpeace first became known as an extremist movement because of their direct action, and very little changed because the awareness they generated was always defeated by political litigation and public unrest about those actions. It has taken a long time for Greenpeace to have gained the global respect they enjoy today. Direct action is different from violence, but Greenpeace was labelled as a violent organisation in the early days even so. I didn't say that violence achieves nothing, but it is more often than not the least effective form of activism. The Taiji protestors have another problem to deal with. If they don't abide by every local law, even something like trespassing, whether they go to jail or not, they will be sent packing without the ability to ever return, which would kill the current movement completely. The only way it is going to change is if local groups get involved, or if international pressure continues to be applied. I concede that direct action is necessary, but violence, rarely.

Awareness is key, direct action is necessary, but violence (however you define it) rarely achieves the desired outcome. There may be a fine line between direct action and violence in some cases, but if you believe in peace and good will on earth, and are willing to act on it, it kind of underminds your cause to choose violence as your tool for change, and often that is exactly what happens. It is perceived and reported in that light (hypocritically).

 

[Tsuchi1]

You should start campaigning against the way the beef industry force feeds grain
To the cows which is so unnatural and given enough time kills the animal.

Dolphins, as cute as they are, are not what is the big issue with governments playing with the food chain.

If they want to eat it despite it being bad for them so be it.
As for grain beef industry, they need put in their place.

 

[Tim Roberts]

@Tsuchi1... i just might, when the slaughter stops! There is only so much pain i can take for a single day u get me?

 

[Tim Roberts]

Massive slaughter in progress, Taiji Dolphin Defenseﾂ?|ﾂ?Another EZ EARTH NETWORK site

---------- Post added at 09:31 ---------- Previous post was at 09:02 ----------

Is JAPAN a nation that ignores the global community? #Perfection #YouMakeMeSick

---------- Post added at 09:42 ---------- Previous post was at 09:31 ----------

#disgusting

---------- Post added at 09:44 ---------- Previous post was at 09:42 ----------

#disgusting #窶堋ｫ窶堙?窶堋｢

 

[Mark of Zorro]

Is JAPAN a nation that ignores the global community?

Is the global community always right?

If you want a nation that ignores the global community, look over at the United States of America.

As I said, I do not support the Taiji dolphin slaughter. But for the love of Pete, would you stop generalizing the whole of Japan over this? Its Taiji and some people in the government. For most of Japan, its a non-issue. And why shouldn't it be with the worldwide horrible treatment of even milk cows?

 

[Tim Roberts]

I am not actually attempting an insult here.. but why don't we fix our own problems?

..tending to the global consortium is not exactly a useless endeavour towards the future!

 

[Macrobiotic]

Animal abuse the world over is unacceptable. I consider the treatment of chickens, pigs, cows, rats, hamsters etc the world over to be just as bad as the dolphin slaughter (and all the other animal cruelty) in Japan.

Japan does have a long vegan tradition, namely that of the buddhist monks. Also, many poor people in feudal times didn't have access to meat or even fish or rice many times so they lived on millet, roots, beans etc etc... This is something both Japan and the world can learn from today. From what I understand, buddhist cooking is supposed to be delicious too.

When it comes to barbary, I don't really make any distinction between the Taiji fishermen and an average swedish consumer buying their christmas ham at the store or a scientist injecting mice with poison just to find a way to treat the heart conditions of obese americans and make a lot of money for some company. It would be more civilized if everyone lived on rice and beans and instead of mice, convicts were used for medical experiments.

The human intelligence doesn't give humans the right to govern the life of the planet as we please. This idea of a mighty ruling species entitled to meat eating even though it can be avoided needs to be scrapped. At least one good thing with the Taiji fishermen is that they actually kill their own meat, which isn't true for most of the hypocrite meat eating population worldwide.

 

[ewww]

I am not actually attempting an insult here.. but why don't we fix our own problems?

I think that before You will say we here, You better try to fix Your own problems. Looks like You have alot.

 

[Tim Roberts]

No problems here.. NONE at all.. not even a little bit.

 

[ewww]

No problems here.. NONE at all.. not even a little bit.

Really, so, tell me, please, why did You come here, and why are You so insisting in that hawleywar.
There is very calm peacefull family oriented frum. That means, small people (children) are reading and posting here. And Your posts contains cruelty and they are very disturbing. Did You try to look on Your behaviour under similar angle?
I see here some unusual behaviorial pattern, almost disorder.

 

[Mike Cash]

Didn't scientists just confirm a newly discovered species of dolphin earlier this year?

 

[Tim Roberts]

Stop this senseless slaughter NOW!!! DO NOT support the captive industry. Committing animals to a life of pain and torture is worse than murder. Your INACTION is condoning it, and condemning more than 20,000 dolphins each year to death or a life of torture! This is unconscionable CRUELTY on a massive scale!!!

Please sign and share this petition-> http://www.causes.com/causes/791439...vity_email&utm_medium=email&utm_source=causes

 

[Mike Cash]

Your action hasn't saved a damned one of them, for that matter, so get off your sanctimonious high horse and quit shouting at us.

There is a point where public displays of compassion become merely self-serving, and you have reached it.

 

[Tim Roberts]

..and there is a point where you realise not everything is about you, and if you spent your energy doing more than telling me to shut up, you'd solve a lot more i reckon, but that is your choice. I have mine, and we both have the right to our choice. But.. you see, this is why people don't do anything.. because the only thing that seems to happen is that they get yelled at to leave it alone. Besides, i don't believe i was shouting anywhere near as loud as you just did, i simply posted a way that people can choose to do something about it if they want it to stop. Not everyone is aware of what is going on in Taiji, so i am not going to pretend to make it seem like all they have done is make a child cry. The reality is a lot worse than that.

Besides, there is good reason why i am talking about this, and i am not sure i understand what yours is. It's not like i'm spamming or using foul language. Nor have i taken away the choice of anyone to be interested in it or not. I have not posted sensitive images or video on this forum in the face of readers either. If i did i would both expect and understand such a reaction.

If you don't want to talk about it, then don't.

 

[Mike Cash]

Let's take a look at what your inaction does.....

It blows up kids who step on landlines.
It allows genocide to continue.
It allows people to starve to death.
It leaves people in poverty.
It spreads AIDS in Africa
It leaves people without safe drinking water.
It fails to provide adequate medical care.
It leaves the homeless on the street.
It doesn't distribute vaccines.


....and about a zillion other things, but we don't seek you out and jab our fingers in your face and endlessly rant on and on about how it is all YOUR fault because YOU are doing nothing about it.

All the hell you are accomplishing is securing for yourself the smug satisfaction and feeling of superiority that comes from displaying that you care more than everybody else. It is entirely self-serving and quite honestly even counterproductive. Now I would almost be glad if they killed every last damned one of your precious dolphins just you would take your annoying environmentalist whack job self someplace else.

You've made your point. You've gotten your message out. Now go do something MEANINGFUL that will actually save one of their lives instead of just doing the "Look at me! Look at me! I care more than you! I'm morally superior!" Bugger off and infest some other place already.

 

[Tim Roberts]

I never said it was your fault, but you can do something about it if you really want to. You could go down to Taiji and peacefully protest the community. You could write to or visit the Mayor of Taiji, The Prime Minister of Japan, and The Minister for Fisheries. You can show them that the Japanese community stands against it. If they see that people stand against it, they will have to rethink their policies.

I would actually invite you to talk about issues in my country, Australia, where people will see and join the discussion. I may not be aware of that issue, or you may offer a point of view i had not thought of. Progress can be made in such ways. If you want to talk about an issue in my country, by all means go to an Australian community forum and post a new topic.

In my country, it is commonplace to petition the government for change, and very often it is achieved. Not always obviously, but quite often.

 

[Mike Cash]

Why didn't you get on a plane and go to Taiji? You expect me to bear the expenses and hassle of a trip to further your cause when you won't make that step yourself? You're the one we are supposed to believe is so distraught, but apparently you draw the line at lifting your butt out from behind your chair and going to put your money where your mouth is.