What ARE your legal rights in Japan as a foreigner?

[Emoni]

Yes, racial profiling exists in America. It doesn't quite go over too well either.

Yes, foreigners ARE treated with suspicion that would be shown to someone who has committed criminal behavior at certain junctures that would NOT be shown to Japanese. I want to get THAT straight right there.

Dual citizenship is definitely needed in Japan, we agree there. However, different topic of course. I could see how it might relate to legal issues though on this thread depending on one's situation.

 

[pipokun]

...
And as for Zainichi Kankokujin, I totally agree that that is an absolute injustice.

Why is it an absolute injustice?
They just show their oath to their home countries, South Korea or North one.

No democracy in the DPRK, but it is an irony that the South Koreans here earnestly claims "Give us the voting right in Japan", even though they cannot vote for their president, congress or else right now.

Needless to say, everything is granted after they get naturalized here. Korean people may be glad to get the US citizenship. It is just a matter of choice.

I don't think there would be a perfect political regime, but I wish Japan should learn much from the US, assumedly a great multi-cultural society, below.
This kind of oath related to the constitution is definitely the legal rights for anyone.

Path2USA
United States Naturalization Oath Ceremony
Support the Constitution and obey the laws of the U.S.;
Renounce any foreign allegiance and/or foreign title; and
Bear arms for the Armed Forces of the U.S. or perform services for the government of the U.S. when required.

But no gated city or Japanese flight is what I want Japan to learn from them.

 

[KirinMan]

Why is it an absolute injustice?
They just show their oath to their home countries, South Korea or North one.

However it is much more complicated than that as you know.

Japan forced them to come here, gave them Japanese citizenship then took it away from them as well.

To countless many their "home" country is Japan. That you know as well.

 

[Dogen Z]

Yes, foreigners ARE treated with suspicion that would be shown to someone who has committed criminal behavior at certain junctures that would NOT be shown to Japanese. I want to get THAT straight right there.

I'm afraid I'm taking the liberty to correct your claim.

SOME foreigners ARE treated with suspicion that would be shown to someone who has committed criminal behavior at certain junctures that would NOT be shown to MOST Japanese.

If you're a dodgey looking foreigner, you would be looked on with suspicion but if you appear to be respectable individual then you would be treated with respect.

I can claim this because of a little tussle with a yakuza type that I was involved with last year. Fortunately for me, he was a little drunk and alone and shorter than me...but still tough. The police intervened and manhandled the guy but treated me with a lot of respect. They asked me what happened and wrote down my account and took my phone number and let me go. (It wasn't my fault, he started it.)

They called me a few days latter and asked me if I could go to their station. Of course, I agreed (I'm a guest in their country, after all.) They told me that they had talked to the guy and wasn't sure exactly what happened because our stories differed but I could resolve this matter by just apologizing to the guy. (He had cut his hand in the fracas when he fell down.) I reiterated that I didn't start it so it wasn't my fault. But the police told me that, in Japan, these incidents are not considered completely one-sided, both parties were responsible.

So....I did the smart thing and apologized and even bowed. The yakuza guy did the same. The police let us go on our way and told the yakuza guy that they don't want to hear anything about this again. A police officer even kindly escorted me to the exit. I told him it must be hard to keep the peace in such a crazy place as Shibuya. He only smiled.

 

[Mike Cash]

Regarding the badge numbers, if you view the largest size available of the Flickr photo I linked to, the officer's badge number is clearly visible. As stated above, they do not wear name tags. Fortunately, if one wishes to file a complaint against a particular officer, the badge number is all that is necessary. Under certain cirumstances, however, the police are allowed to take apart their badges and flip the badge number portion over so that the blank reverse is to the front, making it impossible to obtain their number. I've never seen one actually turned over, and doubt that anyone encountering a beat cop or traffic cop in the normal performance of his duties will either.

 

[KirinMan]

As stated above, they do not wear name tags.

Mike, I wonder if that is a regional thing and not something that is in effect throughout the country. The reason I state this is that where I am at the average beat cop and the one's working in the local station have name tags.

 

[Glenski]

I'll just admit here that I'm extremely against "gainjin cards."

Nothing wrong with ID, and considering we are in the computer age and have been for the past 2 decades (no small part in thanks to Japan) there is no reason why basic ID and a computer check should suffice.

Emoni, you're not making sense. The alien registration card is the "basic ID" for non-citizens around the world. What else do you want people to have? Not everyone has (or needs) a driver's license, so rule that one out.

I'm against strong labeling and sectioning off in society

Get used to it. It happens everywhere, and in a society as homogenous as Japan, it makes us stick out even more. I don't like it, but what am I supposed to do, short of cosmetic surgery?

You don't need to treat visitors or even your own citizens that look differently as second class human beings who are assumed to have committed a crime.

Not all are. Many of us live here quite peacefully without any disturbance from "the force".

How many Americans would appreciate being pulled over if they look foreign or behaving "foreign-like" then demanding a green card. How well do you think that would go over. It wouldn't.

My number one piece of advice for people coming to Japan -- don't compare morals or laws or culture with your own country. This isn't it.

Dual citizenship is definitely needed in Japan

WIth how many nationalities do you propose this? You can't have it just your way (with only your country's people).

 

[FrustratedDave]

I can claim this because of a little tussle with a yakuza type that I was involved with last year. Fortunately for me, he was a little drunk and alone and shorter than me...but still tough. The police intervened and manhandled the guy but treated me with a lot of respect. They asked me what happened and wrote down my account and took my phone number and let me go. (It wasn't my fault, he started it.)
They called me a few days latter and asked me if I could go to their station. Of course, I agreed (I'm a guest in their country, after all.) They told me that they had talked to the guy and wasn't sure exactly what happened because our stories differed but I could resolve this matter by just apologizing to the guy. (He had cut his hand in the fracas when he fell down.) I reiterated that I didn't start it so it wasn't my fault. But the police told me that, in Japan, these incidents are not considered completely one-sided, both parties were responsible.
So....I did the smart thing and apologized and even bowed. The yakuza guy did the same. The police let us go on our way and told the yakuza guy that they don't want to hear anything about this again. A police officer even kindly escorted me to the exit. I told him it must be hard to keep the peace in such a crazy place as Shibuya. He only smiled.

Are you sure it was not a "chinpira". I don't know any "yakuza" who will go out on his own. Let alone bow to you at the end of a dispute. Off topic I know but I wanted to clear this up.

 

[Mike Cash]

Mike, I wonder if that is a regional thing and not something that is in effect throughout the country. The reason I state this is that where I am at the average beat cop and the one's working in the local station have name tags.

I'd be interested in knowing where in Japan that is and in seeing a photo of one. I have never seen one anywhere that I have been.

 

[Dogen Z]

Are you sure it was not a "chinpira". I don't know any "yakuza" who will go out on his own. Let alone bow to you at the end of a dispute. Off topic I know but I wanted to clear this up.

I thought he was just a crazy old man but the police informed me at the end of the whole affair that he was yakuza and I was lucky that the matter ended so simply. At the time of the incident he wanted to charge me with assault! ☝ (All I did was push him back when he tried to grab me.) The police advised me to avoid any confrontation with anyone in the future because people are a little crazy these days. I agreed that it would be the smart thing to do (I like to avoid trouble anyway ).
His apology was simply mumbling that he was drunk and couldn't remember the event clearly-not a bow. I was more apologetic because his hand injury looked bad even though I wasn't the direct cause of it.

Spunky little guy--I might have enjoyed having a beer with him under other circumstances.

 

[alantin]

Emoni, you're not making sense. The alien registration card is the "basic ID" for non-citizens around the world. What else do you want people to have? Not everyone has (or needs) a driver's license, so rule that one out.

I think in the EU the drivers license isn't really a valid form of ID. If I remember right, to fly from a EU country to another a EU citizen needs either a passport or other form of ID. Drivers license isn't enough. An acquaintance of mine was left on an airport in Finland when trying to fly to Germany and had forgotten his passport. He only had his drivers license.

 

[Emoni]

ID, some form of ID should be enough. Heck, I'd settle for keeping the cards easily if I wasn't being stopped to show it or had to worry about punishment for simply forgetting the darn thing. Yes, you can say not to compare morals and rights in countries, but it sure doesn't mean I'm not going to forget about keeping myself safe physically and legally. With all the pitfalls that exist just with that card and police behavior in Japan, it would be insane to not bother to educate oneself.

Hence the reason I started this thread.

The Yakuza story Ocean, it was interesting. I know I would have seriously hesitated on "apologizing" myself, not only for the fact that I wouldn't have felt responsible in anyway, but mostly because I wasn't sure what legal responsibility I might be opening myself up to.

 

[Glenski]

ID, some form of ID should be enough.

What form? Please be specific? I've already pointed out that not everyone has a driver's license, so we're back to the only other form there is -- alien registration. The Japanese themselves have already nixed any national identity card.

Heck, I'd settle for keeping the cards easily if I wasn't being stopped to show it or had to worry about punishment for simply forgetting the darn thing.

You can't have your cake and eat it, too. You agree that ID is needed, yet you complain about it when it is used for the very purpose it is designed. Having a plastic alien card is better and easier than carrying your passport.

 

[pipokun]

...
With all the pitfalls that exist just with that card and police behavior in Japan, it would be insane to not bother to educate oneself.
...

A material for your education from Yomiuri, printed edition on July 24...

Each special agent remembers 500 faces of wanted criminals

In Tokyo, about 10 special agents are assigned to check the faces of criminals through a flood of people in Tokyo.
"WHY DID YOU COME TO KNOW ME???" said a criminal after stopped, questioned and arrested.

Up until last month, 281 criminals have been arrested from the flood since 2001.

The cost/benefit should be carefully examined, but this is a result from the infamous stop and question. And when you include the unwanted criminals, it may be a bit more efficient in the anarchistic Tokyo, though I also read an article in Sapio, a magazine, that the real criminals take a taxi no matter how short distance they move around Tokyo.

I am scared what would have happened in the recent Hachioji knife killer case without the cop questioning the suspect on the street or the killer had been a human right Art of War lover who liked asking the cop, "show me your ID, blah, blah, blah?".

*The Hachioji case was a bit different from the cases in Akihabara or Hiratsuka, for the stabber left the site for a while.

 

[Emoni]

What form? Please be specific? I've already pointed out that not everyone has a driver's license, so we're back to the only other form there is -- alien registration. The Japanese themselves have already nixed any national identity card.
You can't have your cake and eat it, too. You agree that ID is needed, yet you complain about it when it is used for the very purpose it is designed. Having a plastic alien card is better and easier than carrying your passport.

Throw in a Japanese person in the place of a foreigner. You instantly have a very different situation do you not? What if the Japanese person doesn't have ID? Do you see any Japanese on the street asked to show ID? Have you ever seen them stopped for bicycle checks? I'm not going to bring this too much into the mess of things, as I wanted to focus mostly on how one can legally protect themselves in certain situations, but it is this sort of difference that I'm speaking of when I give other alternatives to the "have gaijin card or to police station you go" mindset. Japanese account for the most crime in Japan percentage wise, yet the foreigners and visitors are the ones checked and treated as if they are suspects. Culture differences be damned, that doesn't make sense one bit.

 

[Glenski]

Do you see any Japanese on the street asked to show ID?

Japanese citizens are not obliged to produce ID, as stated in the Police Execution of Duties Law.

Have you ever seen them stopped for bicycle checks?

It happens.

it is this sort of difference that I'm speaking of when I give other alternatives to the "have gaijin card or to police station you go" mindset.

You have not answered my question, asked repeatedly:
What alternative to the alien registration card (or passport) would you recommend?

Japanese account for the most crime in Japan percentage wise, yet the foreigners and visitors are the ones checked and treated as if they are suspects. Culture differences be damned, that doesn't make sense one bit.

Exaggerations aside (Japanese people DO get checked), I agree with all of the above, but what do you propose?

 

[KirinMan]

Have you ever seen them stopped for bicycle checks?

I have seen them do all sorts of vehicle checks on Japanese.

I even know a guy who got a DUI for riding a bicycle, and he is Japanese.

Just because YOU dont or havent seen it doesnt automatically mean that it hasnt happened or doesnt happen with regards to checks.

Sounds to me like you are trying to create a fire where there isnt even any smoke.

 

[FrustratedDave]

I thought he was just a crazy old man but the police informed me at the end of the whole affair that he was yakuza and I was lucky that the matter ended so simply.

Chinpira are regulary lumped in as being Yakuza, you had a confrontation with a chinpira. Just to put it in terms you might understand, a Yakuza is a made man and in an aurgument there would be people comming come to the party to protect him. Don't get me wrong, they are all part of the same organization.

You have not answered my question, asked repeatedly:
What alternative to the alien registration card (or passport) would you recommend?

Good luck getting an answer as I am still wating for an answer to this question.Japanese Language Conspiracies!!!

What am I intending on saying in example #1 and #2
#1: "窶敕樞?堙娯?｢窶昶?ｰﾂｮ窶堙俄?堙ｪ窶堋｢窶堋ｪ窶堋｢窶堋ｽ"
#2: "窶敕樞?堙娯?｢窶昶?ｰﾂｮ窶堙俄?堙ｪ窶堋｢窶堋ｪ窶堋｢窶堋ｽ"

Just proves the fact that Emoni is not really interested in anything other then to stir up a bit of trouble just to get people to bite back. Emoni if I am wrong, answer the questions you have left untouched, or will this prove your reasoning wrong and that is why you have side steped every valid point made by some of the members here?

 

[Taiko666]

What form? Please be specific? I've already pointed out that not everyone has a driver's license, so we're back to the only other form there is -- alien registration. The Japanese themselves have already nixed any national identity card.
You can't have your cake and eat it, too. You agree that ID is needed, yet you complain about it when it is used for the very purpose it is designed. Having a plastic alien card is better and easier than carrying your passport.

I don't think carrying ID should be legal requirement at all. But since it's possible (but unlikely) that one could find oneself in a situation where somebody has a truly valid reason for needing to know one's ID, it makes sense to carry something. But having to spend a night in the cells because you left your wallet at home is completely ludicrous.

Most countries get by without having a compulsory ID system (see BBC NEWS | UK | Politics | Other countries' ID schemes) And only two that I know of, Japan and the USA (funny how they always go arm-in-arm when it comes to these sorts of issues) require ID only from foreigners. Many countries require foreigners to carry id, but those countries also require citizens to carry id. Therefore deadlocked situations such as:

Chief Wiggum: Show me your ID
Joe Public: I'm a citizen, I don't need to carry ID
Chief Wiggum: Prove you're a citizen
Joe Public: I can't, I'm not carrying any ID

don't occur. And this situation will occur more and more often in Japan.

 

[Glenski]

I don't think carrying ID should be legal requirement at all. But since it's possible (but unlikely) that one could find oneself in a situation where somebody has a truly valid reason for needing to know one's ID, it makes sense to carry something. But having to spend a night in the cells because you left your wallet at home is completely ludicrous.

Foreigners need their IDs perhaps more than locals. Perhaps. Reason anyone should carry ID? Accidents happen, be they earthquakes, knife-wielding maniacs in Akihabara, car crashes, etc. If you are unconscious, how are you going to be ID'd?

Most countries get by without having a compulsory ID system (see BBC NEWS | UK | Politics | Other countries' ID schemes) And only two that I know of, Japan and the USA (funny how they always go arm-in-arm when it comes to these sorts of issues) require ID only from foreigners.

Doesn't the USA, too? I believe green card holders must always have it on them there.

Many countries require foreigners to carry id, but those countries also require citizens to carry id.

Not in the US. Locals can walk the streets without ID and it is not a crime.

Therefore deadlocked situations such as:
Chief Wiggum: Show me your ID
Joe Public: I'm a citizen, I don't need to carry ID
Chief Wiggum: Prove you're a citizen
Joe Public: I can't, I'm not carrying any ID
don't occur. And this situation will occur more and more often in Japan.

Yup, just ask Debito Arudou. It just happened to him. My response to that Catch-22 is that anyone can therefore claim he is "half" or a naturalized citizen, right? and therefore he cannot be asked to produce ID. ANYONE. (Don't try it, though.)

 

[orochi]

Gotta love loopholes!

 

[pipokun]

...
Japanese account for the most crime in Japan percentage wise, yet the foreigners and visitors are the ones checked and treated as if they are suspects. Culture differences be damned, that doesn't make sense one bit.

Some and most visitors are good and law-abiding.
But others are not.

Just think the reason why the US started to collect the whole fingerprints.
It is simply because the others were US-loving people who erase their fingerprints by a plastic surgery.
And have you ever considered forging your gaijin card? I hope you have not.
But the others actually did so.

And carrying the card is a legal requirement for residents who are not naturalized here. Do you want a special treatment from them?

 

[orochi]

Some and most visitors are good and law-abiding.
But others are not.

The same goes for Japanese nationals.
Shouldn't they have IDs as well to prevent problems?

Do you want a special treatment from them?

Is asking not be treated like a criminal asking for special treatment?

 

[pipokun]

The same goes for Japanese nationals.
Shouldn't they have IDs as well to prevent problems?
Is asking not be treated like a criminal asking for special treatment?

All Japanese are registered in the family registry quite unique (and notorious for some) registration. And actually, what Japan is planning next is something like a SSN in the US to cover all people.

Showing the card upon request is not treating you as a criminal.

 

[orochi]

All Japanese are registered in the family registry quite unique

But they aren't required to carry around family registry cards. Your point is irrelevant.

Showing the card upon request is not treating you as a criminal.

Of course not. Showing the card is something that YOU do. Nobody said that people are treating themselves like criminals.