Advice on writing kana and hearing syllabic audio?

[waveform]

Hello, great site!
I'm reading a book titled Modern Japanese Grammar Lessons: Richard Bowring and Haruko Uryu Laurie and I was told that I should start learning the hiragana, and katakana scripts before working with grammar concepts. That makes sense, but shouldn't I be listing to the sound of the syllabic scripts while writing them? Or doses that not matter at this point? I don't really know where to start.
I think I've just grasped the concept of what the syllabic scripts are in relation to the Kanji, and Romaji. I think I'm ok on that, but I'm worried that if I don't listen to the sounds I won't remember what I'm writing.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks

 

[Charles Barkley]

It would be a mistake, I think, not to find audio to accompany the sounds as you are learning them. Otherwise, you run the risk of accidentally learning the wrong sound for the syllable.

I did not have any audio when I first learned the kana, and I mistook the japanese お (o) for the English sound augh, as in taught, when really it is how you would normally say the letter 'o' (i.e., wrote).

You can undo these mistakes but it is a pain. Best to avoid it from the beginning. I imagine there are websites you can use that will have audio files next to each syllable.

Another good way to start is the pimsleur japaense series. But the 'beginner' set of tapes and go through them and you'll get used to the sounds a bit. Or you might be able to find the entire set of beginner intermediate and advanced on a torrent site and get them all for free in less than an hour but I would never advise that kind of thing...

 

[iwuvvleskaylee]

I my as well make a point here that may scare you, but the intent is only to make you cautious. Literature for learning japanese is often poluted with things to help some one learn just enough for buisness in situations that require quick learning. These are often sprinkled with nice set phrases, but aren't always correct. Always double check your lesson examples with more than one dictionary (dictionaries have this problem too). Best to speak right from the start than learn a bad habit from a "top of the line" buisness or anime course. Though, the mention of learning ひらがな (hiragana) before anything else does make me feel hopeful about your study material. I, however, ended up taking "the hard road" for Japanese. Hopefully, you are more fortunate than i at finding decent material. I, in my past experience, developed many bad habits as well.

 

[waveform]

Thanks guys.
@ charles, I just found these sites. Do they look ok as far as the accuracy of the audio?

Doses that pimsleur Japanese series cover the alphabet first? I have the Rosetta stone Japanese Cd, but that breaks right into words, so your not learning any grammar up front.
@ 緑さん
I know what you mean, in that you almost have to be in the environment and around the culture to understand some of these extended meaning of dialog. At this point I would just be happy if I could get to the point where I could read order forms, and buy things online.
As far as the books I have, this is them
1. An Introduction to Modern Japanese: Volume 1
# ISBN-10: 052143839X
# ISBN-13: 978-0521438391
2. Reading & Writing Japanese Third edition
# ISBN-10: 0804833656
# ISBN-13: 978-0804833653
3. Kanji & Kana Revised Edition: A Guide to the Japanese Writing System (Tuttle Language Library)
# ISBN-10: 0804820775
# ISBN-13: 978-0804820776
4. Oxford beginner's Japanese dictionary
# ISBN-10: 0199298521
# ISBN-13: 978-0199298525

 

[iwuvvleskaylee]

I had a few runins with kanji and kana... It's a nice book for generalizations, but becareful of taking it too truthful... Sometimes (been a long time since it happened) i have had conflicts with dictionaries. Sometimes the readings aren't used, and it often leaves out readings. Sometimes the examples are off... My recomendation is to get used to copying and pasting and using Yomigana 漢字や用語の読み仮名（ふりがな）が判るステキなサービス. Kanji and Kana might help in the case of images which you can't copy and paste, but i've found it also uses rarely used Kanji, and skips a few common ones. As for dictionary, beginner dictionaries, as i've seen, are Romazi happy. I really don't like paper dictionaries as they usually don't keep up with the times, even if they've recently been "revised." Usually best to find an online dictionary (that isn't EDICT). I use Yahoo!辞書 - 国語・英和・和英および専門辞書の検索サービス. I have no experience with the other two.

But, i agree with the cultural thing. I have a post here that's intended to do the best toward emulating the actual being there online, but with lack of topics, interest, and the possible lack of motivation of people who would correct, it's not doing too well. I basically learned the particles and moved on to Timwerx's verb tutorials and then studied the adjective sections as well, while disecting them as much as i could asking Tim himself about the lessons. I have a major lack of vocabulary, but the end result is pretty nice if you can find lots of people to correct your Japanese. Your first and second books may be alright, but i have no personal experience with them (which is good, because i've had nothing but bad experiences with books). Formal classes tend to be geared more towards anime and buisness as well, but mostly anime.

As for your hiragana learning, it's actually quite easy. Most of the sounds are the exact same sounds as english, just pronounced at the front of your mouth using your tounge instead of your teeth and lips. T/D is a good example. It, as far as i've seen, is pronounced by placing your tongue at the back of your teeth. The R/L is a little more difficult. So is ん... Also, the "accent marks" usually just mean making the sound further back on your tongue, like だ instead of た. Most places, however, just treat them like separate letters.

 

[Charles Barkley]

Sorry, I only have computer access at my work, which is heavily limited, so I am unable to use the links above. Perhaps someone else will be able to confirm the accuracy of the japanese for you...

 

[waveform]

Thanks for the review on the books 緑さん, I appreciate that.
I'm just using the books to get a basic idea of some simple things. Such as what the difference is between the terms, Kana, Kanji, and Romaji. I know now from the books.
Anyway, this information is very helpful. I really appreciate the length of your post, as this is not info you would find in any book.
Charles, no problem, they are just audio files of the Kana with pictures
By the way, I was looking at that JapanesePod101 site. I've heard some good things about that place. I might just sign up there and see how that goes. It's probably the next best thing to taking a real course. Or even better, maybe I'll hook up with a Japanese girl, that would be real nice too.

 

[iwuvvleskaylee]

Be ready for some changes if you want to be with a Japanese girl. XD I heard the style of a male-female relationship is quite different, but have no experience myself, which is not a problem for me. There are certain parts of the culture that it's best for both americans and japanese for americans to not attempt. Maybe having a friend who's Japanese would help, but traversing into the special friend department has alot of yellow signs...

 

[nice gaijin]

A relationship is a relationship. Crossing cultural boundaries just adds another layer of complexity to the situation. At this point, "hooking up with a Japanese girl" isn't very likely to do you much good, especially if your motivation is using her as a study aid. In fact, such an attitude discourages me from wanting to provide you with any useful information. I would wager a guess that others feel the same way.

 

[waveform]

… "hooking up with a Japanese girl" isn't very likely to do you much good, especially if your motivation is using her as a study aid.

Wait a second, Excuse me. I did not say that.
Not at all!
When I used the word [too], I mean also. I was joking as in...."maybe after I learn Japanese I can hook up with a Japanese girl", THAT was the joke. You don't learn a language just to hook up with someone you have not even met. Then again what would be wrong with that? but I agree anyone who would date someone to use as a study aid is inhuman, and unethical. But I never said that.

In fact, such an attitude discourages me from wanting to provide you with any useful information. I would wager a guess that others feel the same way.

Please don't label me like this nice gaijin. You are speculating something. And why would you involve/gather others to support a wager? That is what gangs do. Are we off to a bad start already here? Please let me know, because I will quietly move on to another forum.

In any case, I appreciate the help up until this point.
Thank you Charles, and 緑さん.

And I am sorry if I came across in the wrong way. I sometimes speak out of context, it's gotten me in a lot of trouble in the past, but it's one of my downfalls I guess.

 

[waveform]

By the way, I want to explain someone, a problem I see in other forums with misinterpretations in speaking. Let me break apart what I said in my #7 post, and explain it.

Quoting myself
...I was looking at that JapanesePod101 site. I've heard some good things about that place. I might just sign up there and see how that goes. It's probably the next best thing to taking a real course.
Period, end of thought. The subject in blue text above was about the JapanesePod101 site.
Quoting the other half of my statement. Or even better, maybe I'll hook up with a Japanese girl that would be real nice too.

I am using the words, Even Better as in; even better then this work, this course, this Pod101 website, even better then any of that. But rather better, .....as in good for my life.


There you have it.
sorry I'm so sensitive on this, but I was town apart on another web forum for something I said, when in fact I was only trying to compliment someone, I used the wrong terminology out of pure ignorance without an understanding of the concept of Orientalism. I had never even heard of the world before. It was a good mistake that taught me something. That is life, and the world is not perfectly round. We make mistakes. Everyone

 

[Charles Barkley]

You'd be surprised waveform--some people do learn a foreign language largely to hook up with the opposite sex. I know a few such people here in Japan, Japanese and foreign...

 

[waveform]

You'd be surprised waveform--some people do learn a foreign language largely to hook up with the opposite sex. I know a few such people here in Japan, Japanese and foreign...

Charles I understand that, and I agree, and in all honestly there is nothing wrong with that. I don't think so at least.
But I was trying to make a point above by steeping out of the firing zone to avoid being a target. I don't know nice gaijin, so I can't judge the user, but for him to come off by saying, he is discouraged from wanting to provide help to me from what I said; Is like saying I had some kind of agenda with bad intentions. That was not my creation.
I do respect that he is a long time member, that is obvious by the number of posts he has made, but it's unrelated to my credibility on that remark. That's all I was trying to point out.
Charles I very much appreciate your help above, I'm sorry this topic got trashed. Always the same story.


There is no way to peace, peace is the way (A.J. Muste).